PvP bounty hunters should get a cut of their kills rebuy value

Lateralus · Feb 28, 2017

To help PvP bounty hunting, it could work well if a successful PvP bounty claim was enhanced by a cut of the dispatched criminal's rebuy cost. It could be tied to the bounty value of the wanted commander. For example;

Bounty Value vs Rebuy Cut

0 - 999cr (0%)
1000cr - 4999cr (5%)
5000cr - 49,999cr (10%)
50,000cr - 99,999cr (20%)
100,000cr - 499,999cr (30%)
500,000cr - 999,999cr (40%)
1,000,000cr + (50%)

Why does the cut scale-up depending on their bounty do you ask? Because we do not want to encourage commanders to go after players with small bounties and get similar rewards to those with large bounties.

This proposed system would encourage bounty hunters to go after wanted commanders flying high-value ships more, because at the moment, there is no real incentive to hunt advanced-level wanted players (1 million credits? lol).

Thoughts?

Alexander the Grape · Feb 28, 2017

I like it. Hard to exploit because it's a net cash loss. Combined with the return of Federation/Empire-wide bounties this could make for some interesting interactions

Lateralus · Feb 28, 2017

Alexander the Grape said:
I like it. Hard to exploit because it's a net cash loss. Combined with the return of Federation/Empire-wide bounties this could make for some interesting interactions

Exactly, want to fly an OP ship and gank? Fine, but you will become a primary target.

After this, all we would need are better tracking tools, not OP ones though - ones that are good enough to lead a breadcrumb trail.

StiTch · Feb 28, 2017

There have been a few ideas around insurance coming in to CP.

IMO the better solution is to tie the insurance end to the criminal. The karma system proposed by FD could neatly tie into insurance, with a decrease in proportion of insurance provided as karma decreases. Players that then kill the criminal may be able to claim whatever drop in insurance coverage the criminal took.

This would protect newer players by nature, as their karma wouldn't be low unless they were a naughty anyway, and all-importantly you've introduced no precedent regarding CMDR/NPC discrimination...I'm loath to see the game going "oh yeah, that was a player and not NPC, have some extra money".

But of course...this needs to be a part of a much bigger discussion. We are no longer being productive, and will not be, for as long as we discuss CP in terms of "well I don't like ganking and want to stop it like this".

Truesilver · Feb 28, 2017

But it isn't possible to kill anyone worth killing, so unless you get lucky and spot a wannabe, how do you ever get the bounty? On them high waking?

Lateralus · Feb 28, 2017

Truesilver said:
But it isn't possible to kill anyone worth killing, so unless you get lucky and spot a wannabe, how do you ever get the bounty? On them high waking?

Doesn't a certain Eravate pirate get killed every week in his conda?

Truesilver · Feb 28, 2017

Lateralus said:
Doesn't a certain Eravate pirate get killed every week in his conda?

You mean the guy with the unfortunate reputation of being the worst PvP pilot in the entire game?

I stand by my original statement, lol.

However, this highlights another problem - in the unlikely event that Frontier change the game's code to permit us to kill credible targets, the only people capable of redeeming a bounty will already have fully RNGineered ships and so many credits as to make the bounty meaningless except for defraying ammunition costs.

Don't get me wrong, all props as ever Mr Lateralus for trying to work PvP in the right direction but I don't see how we can ever get to credit relevance.

Malkevin · Feb 28, 2017

Well fdev does look to be attempting to make unkillable players killable again with the nerf to shield boosters

If fdev got rid of magical health potions and stackable passive health bonuses combat might actually be balanced again

StiTch · Feb 28, 2017

Malkevin said:
Well fdev does look to be attempting to make unkillable players killable again with the nerf to shield boosters

If fdev got rid of magical health potions and stackable passive health bonuses combat might actually be balanced again

"Might be" is operative...but little more will I add, for little more can I add.

TS is probably going to grin reading this, you know

Lateralus · Feb 28, 2017

Truesilver said:
You mean the guy with the unfortunate reputation of being the worst PvP pilot in the entire game?

I stand by my original statement, lol.

However, this highlights another problem - in the unlikely event that Frontier change the game's code to permit us to kill credible targets, the only people capable of redeeming a bounty will already have fully RNGineered ships and so many credits as to make the bounty meaningless except for defraying ammunition costs.

Don't get me wrong, all props as ever Mr Lateralus for trying to work PvP in the right direction but I don't see how we can ever get to credit relevance.

Indeed!

I get what you're saying, high-waking will usually prevent an experienced player from being killed in a single encounter. But perhaps the draw of a large payday will tempt bounty hunters into actively perusing targets between systems, instead of giving up on a high-wake?

More high-wake prevention tech beyond the rather disappointing Grom Missiles would certainly be welcome, but I don't think HW mechanics are enough of a deal-breaker to NOT implement my suggestion, as even with the current dynamics, it would still improve PvP bounty hunting overall.

Elethiomel Zakalwe · Feb 28, 2017

I think this could work very nicely to make PvP viable as a career. I'd love to be able to actually make money bounty hunting players.

StiTch · Feb 28, 2017

Elethiomel Zakalwe said:
I think this could work very nicely to make PvP viable as a career. I'd love to be able to actually make money bounty hunting players.

Forget credits. Farm fun. And PvP is incredible fun/hour.

Obliterating Wanted CMDRs, even more fun/hour. In fact the profit to satisfaction is through the roof.

droid327 · Feb 28, 2017

How's this prevent gankers from letting friends kill them in cidewinders to clear their bounty, though? I think the problem isn't encouraging bounty hunting...I think the problem there is it's too difficult to find a ganker and then actually destroy them, so it's too difficult and low-yield for most to bother. I think a better overall solution is tweaking the system to encourage the gankers to attack better opponents in the first place - maybe have a pvp rank based on the average combat rank of the opponents you kill, as well as your kill-death ratio. So gankers would end up tanking their rank by hunting tadpoles in starter systems, and epeen is very important to them. Thus, high-ranked and well-matched opponents would seek each other out for the chance to gain pvp rank, and let the small fish go.

Austacker · Mar 1, 2017

Lateralus said:
To help PvP bounty hunting, it could work well if a successful PvP bounty claim was enhanced by a cut of the dispatched criminal's rebuy cost. It could be tied to the bounty value of the wanted commander. For example;

Bounty Value vs Rebuy Cut

0 - 999cr (0%)

1000cr - 4999cr (5%)

5000cr - 49,999cr (10%)

50,000cr - 99,999cr (20%)

100,000cr - 499,999cr (30%)

500,000cr - 999,999cr (40%)

1,000,000cr + (50%)

Why does the cut scale-up depending on their bounty do you ask? Because we do not want to encourage commanders to go after players with small bounties and get similar rewards to those with large bounties.

This proposed system would encourage bounty hunters to go after wanted commanders flying high-value ships more, because at the moment, there is no real incentive to hunt advanced-level wanted players (1 million credits? lol).

Thoughts?

Balance out with the following...

If you are engaged and destroyed by a ganker, they also pay an appropriate percentage of your rebuy cost.

Lateralus · Mar 1, 2017

droid327 said:
How's this prevent gankers from letting friends kill them in cidewinders to clear their bounty, though? I think the problem isn't encouraging bounty hunting...I think the problem there is it's too difficult to find a ganker and then actually destroy them, so it's too difficult and low-yield for most to bother. I think a better overall solution is tweaking the system to encourage the gankers to attack better opponents in the first place - maybe have a pvp rank based on the average combat rank of the opponents you kill, as well as your kill-death ratio. So gankers would end up tanking their rank by hunting tadpoles in starter systems, and epeen is very important to them. Thus, high-ranked and well-matched opponents would seek each other out for the chance to gain pvp rank, and let the small fish go.

This isn't a solution to that problem, that requires another fix. This is a solution to PvP bounty hunting being unrewarding and worthless. With this solution, players would naturally be driven towards attacking wanted players flying expensive ships, which most of the time will be advanced level players or Draconis/Sothis/Robigo farmers.

Austacker said:
Balance out with the following...

If you are engaged and destroyed by a ganker, they also pay an appropriate percentage of your rebuy cost.

That would not be a good mechanism... Why should you pay for someones rebuy costs you've just killed? The only scenario where that would be reasonable would be if you kill someone within your own power-faction.

CorvenDallas · Mar 1, 2017

What about having to pay ALL YOUR FINES on the moment you die? Also with some "bounty-decay" system, if you think about it, as soon as a killer is caught and killed lawyers come claiming that the money of the killer is used to repay victims, as you go high on the PvP killing ladder, harder is the fall, maybe a lower % of insurance as your fines go high.

What would be the highest penalty for a griefer? That all his previous killings come to haunt his body and credits and he starts on a sidey... again... suffering the new top PvP/Griefers on his own flesh.