Engineers [PVP] Can anyone explain to me funky gimballed behavior?

RobLocksley · Oct 31, 2016

Ozram said:
Well, e+s is very much a hard counter. That's true. It's also an easy one to fit on. The other standard is feedback Cascade Rail, which nullifies SCBs very effectively. TBH, I think the hardest part of pvp these days (and what ruins it for me) is the need to grind out engineers. The advantage of a meta ship with engineer meta is not counterable so the entry price to pvp is ridiculously high. Anyway, we're going off topic. I don't agree that SL builds ruin pvp as they come at the direct cost of no shields. The way to deal with it is to eyeball and aim fixed. Emissive + seekers just nullifies SL builds completely which is why most FAS's now linger in docks, collecting dust.

I tried to rep you twice apparently; that is how good this post is

Virtual rep for the time being alright?

NeilF · Oct 31, 2016

Ozram said:
Well, e+s is very much a hard counter. That's true. It's also an easy one to fit on. The other standard is feedback Cascade Rail, which nullifies SCBs very effectively. TBH, I think the hardest part of pvp these days (and what ruins it for me) is the need to grind out engineers. The advantage of a meta ship with engineer meta is not counterable so the entry price to pvp is ridiculously high. Anyway, we're going off topic. I don't agree that SL builds ruin pvp as they come at the direct cost of no shields. The way to deal with it is to eyeball and aim fixed. Emissive + seekers just nullifies SL builds completely which is why most FAS's now linger in docks, collecting dust.

Understood... But again, all seems yet more fuel to the paper/scissors/stone argument IMHO. They have X, you have Y, so great. But if they have Z? Oh dear... And all dictated well before any fight in Outfitting...

StiTch · Oct 31, 2016

NeilF said:
Understood... But again, all seems yet more fuel to the paper/scissors/stone argument IMHO. They have X, you have Y, so great. But if they have Z? Oh dear... And all dictated well before any fight in Outfitting...

And more worryingly, you know the outcome of the specific encounter 5 mins before the fight stars when you target them in SC and look at their modules.

RobLocksley said:
I tried to rep you twice apparently; that is how good this post is
Virtual rep for the time being alright?

...and what if they say no?

Weps · Oct 31, 2016

Nandayo said:
I thought the same, but there is no other explanation. I mean how else to do you explain this? http://prnt.sc/d15htp . You can see the lead indicator but none of the gimballed trackers are moving.

I can't see the video at work but maybe this could explain it:

Mark Allen said:
Interesting aside on this one - gimbals *are* actually more effective against hot targets, the wobble doesn't scale but what does scale with target visibility is the angle within which they will track a target. I was doing some testing on this last week while discussing balance, and in practical scenarios it ranges from a maximum of 30 degree radius (for a close hot target, and is the upper limit) down to 3-4 degrees (for a cool 'conda 3km away). Possibly this scaling needs adjusting, but it's there.

Did the other player launch any heatsink at that time - did you see him eject one right after loosing lock, which could mean that lock was lost as his ship reached minimal heat?

RobLocksley · Oct 31, 2016

StiTch said:
...and what if they say no?

I'll have to sneak it in under the carpet...
What where we disscusing now again?

Nandayo · Oct 31, 2016

Weps said:
I can't see the video at work but maybe this could explain it:

Did the other player launch any heatsink at that time - did you see him eject one right after loosing lock, which could mean that lock was lost as his ship reached minimal heat?

Yes, he spammed them and had silent running active (his shields never recharged and the target outline became grey at bigger distance). The thing is that since the moment his shields went down, until the end of the fight (about 3.5 minutes), my guns never aimed properly once. Clipper HP placement + the reduced effectiveness of gimbal lock vs "cold" targets makes this scenario very reasonable. I wasn't aware that target heat level was a parameter in gimbal effectiveness when I made this post.

If twitch works for you and you want to see more of the duel for a final conclusion Here is a link. I know twitch vods suck, sorry ;/

BluStar · Nov 1, 2016

DragoonKnight said:
Silent running is one of those things that completely breaks PvP and turns it into a rock/paper/scissors kind of thing, but none of the regular PvPers here will ever admit it.

you seem to have problem with everything that other people point out

Crimson Kaim · Nov 1, 2016

Silent Running has absolutely nothingmto do with that. It's soley the heat signature of yourmopponent, which is extremely low. Throw in some emissive weapon and you can track him 360.
Also, Pulse Lasers are the new meta. Get rid of Multis. It currently goas from one noob weapon to another.

Ozram · Nov 1, 2016

Crimson Kaim said:
Silent Running has absolutely nothingmto do with that. It's soley the heat signature of yourmopponent, which is extremely low. Throw in some emissive weapon and you can track him 360.
Also, Pulse Lasers are the new meta. Get rid of Multis. It currently goas from one noob weapon to another.

You mean it's the next weapon with access to grade 5 overcharge?