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'less vulnerable to focus fire'...than what? Can you explain this please?
Shield tanks kraits are more vulnerable to cascade rails given their low base shields, i think it's obvious that in wing rails boats focus those. and because of worse speed and bigger hitbox are much more vulnerable than fdl, it's not that big problem 1vs1 where pilot can time banking and avoid being casacded most of the time.
It's a very small disparity it doesn't need that much skill to overcome it.
I didn't say that FDL is massively op, it's massively op in 3+3 and bigger wing fights with seasoned pilots, but ok in duels, maybe not even best ship for 1vs1. I completely agree that hulltanking should be made more viable, but best way to do this IMO is nerfing skill boosters and more difficult(for dev's) to rethink how anti missile defences work right now, along hounds that I 100% agree are more unbalanced than FDL (decreasing capacity by 50% would make them somehow in line with rest). I don't think that fights against wings of 15000mj behemoths that always hiwake(becouse of fsd interrupt cooldown favour attacked) are great gameplay, it's another reason to nerf boosters, both in capacity and resistances.
 
This may be very late to the party, but I had a thread asking for help from the community. I was/ am a big fan of the FGS but after some practical examples and some good advice I ended up building this :

My advice would be to copy this as close as you can, it's a great ship to learn PvP in. For me as a PvP noob this was a revalation
 
I don't agree it's massively op in huge wing fights. I don't deny that most ships are fdls in wing fights and it's a bit of an issue, but the mamba is its match, and in the absence of packhounds, so are some hybrids. Unbalanced loadouts need more attention, but yes, defense inflation is the biggest issue. What we need to ask for is diminishing returns on MJ and armor.

I say again, I'm participating in these huge wing fights you speak of, only a couple of months ago were fighting 18 vs 14 in the same instance, totally organic in LHS 3006, biggest battle I personally have ever seen, and I can assure you no more than half the ships (which is a big percentage, I give you) were FDLs. The main reason for this is that other ships bring different things to wing fights. A wing of all FDLs could be kited by a wing of all Mambas. Yes, it's the best combat ship, but is it better than all the others, such that it's suboptimal to take a wing of mixed ships? DEfinitely not. Anyway, I see we agree largely on the fundamentals, that the FDL's lateral acceleration gives it a combat advantage in most engagements. I just wouldn't word it as strongly as you.
 
Offensive and defensive inflation hasn't been even across the board. Overall 1v1 TTKs are significantly inflated, because of augmentations to defenses that significantly exceed augmentations to damage, but protection for external modules has not increased to anywhere near the pace of shields, hull, or even internals. Likewise, the prevalence of longer range weapons and the inability to break sensor lock (fight enough people at once and the odds of someone having emissive get pretty damn high) in wing combats means that focus fire is more effective than it was before (more ships can be inside effective sensor and weapons range at any given moment), and further skews things in favor of shield focused setups.

You can take a look at older, pre-Engineer, wing enagements and realize that 1v1 took less time, but wing focus fire, for both shield and hull focused vessels was at least as survivable as it is now, if not more so. In the case of hull focused setups, silent running being able to be used effectively for protracted periods was a major factor in the survivability...it made it very difficult to focus on a target that could be confused with other targets in the area.

The FDL just happens to be the shieldiest medium, with the fewest glaring downsides, and one of the best overall hardpoint layouts available. It's always been a wing favorite because it's advantages are highly synergistic. The Mamba and Phantom are faster though, without sacrificing firepower, and that's a pretty big deal in groups.

As far as missiles go, the problem isn't with them specifically, it's that your externals have twice the effective integrity as before (better hull resistances and an MRP), but your hull may be five times as strong and you may have ten times the total shield pool. Someone evading missiles prior to long range weapons and emissive was also probably evading most other fire...dumping a heatsink and making a run for it, even in a fairly straight line, would keep most keep most kinetics from landing and rapidly get into the drop off ranges of most hitscan weapons. Before Engineers, the longest range any hitscan weapon could go before damage falloff hit was 1km...now a solid two-thirds of rail guns I see and use are LR5, full damage at 6k, which is nuts.

The biggest issues I have with combat in the current game, which hit hull-oriented setups disproportionately hard, are:

- Shields are just too good. No diminishing returns on raw shield strength stacking, and the ability to achieve high all-round resistances, makes shielding more useful than ever, despite the addition of token/niche counters like phasing, flechettes, or reverberating cascade. Any credible counter to shielding started off comically overpowered and was rapidly nerfed into complete uselessness...not that they weren't overly niche anyway.

- Effective weapon ranges are too long, especially for hitscan weapons, most especially for railguns. The microgimbal/snap-to-target effect exacerbates this.

- No counter, no cooldown effects like emissive and corrosive are extremely potent and synergistically reinforce the relative power of the above.

- Increased ammo pools and synthesis make ammo limitations even less of an issue than before in many cases, removing one of the main balance points that had previously limited the utility of weapons like rails and seekers. Other than Engineering itself, synthesis is probably my least favorite addition to the game as it trivializes many loadout trade-offs, general forethought, and discipline, for all kinds of activities, combat and otherwise, replacing them with material farming.

- Stealth was once a potent equalizer in the utility of shield focused vs. hybrid/shieldless vessels, but it was dramatically reduced in effectiveness, both via effects of loadout choices that are heavily incentivized, as well as by radical changes in how weapon thermal load worked, and most recently nightvision. Still has a niche, but outside of ambushing the ignorant and unaware, it's a small one.
 
I don't deny that most ships are fdls in wing fights and it's a bit of an issue, but the mamba is its match, and in the absence of packhounds, so are some hybrids.
Mamba is a match, i agree, in practice may have even better defences than fdl despite worse internals and shields(details are for another thread), but have smaller # of effective loadouts options than fdl. As for hybrids in wing fights, rule is if enemies have slower hybrid(alliance ships or krait) and you have fdl's, it become prime target, my experiance is that hybrid chieftains and kraits in wing fights have problems surviving more than 2 minutes before hi-waking or getting killed, even without seekers, cause amazingly you don't get hull resistance from 4sys pips under fire:), so from start you have like 2 times smaller healthpool. Gap may look smaller than it is because people make mistakes, lack coordination, reconnaissance or battle plan, if this not happen, fight is very fast and can end in 1 way only.
 
Mamba is a match, i agree, in practice may have even better defences than fdl despite worse internals and shields(details are for another thread), but have smaller # of effective loadouts options than fdl. As for hybrids in wing fights, rule is if enemies have slower hybrid(alliance ships or krait) and you have fdl's, it become prime target, my experiance is that hybrid chieftains and kraits in wing fights have problems surviving more than 2 minutes before hi-waking or getting killed, even without seekers, cause amazingly you don't get hull resistance from 4sys pips under fire:), so from start you have like 2 times smaller healthpool. Gap may look smaller than it is because people make mistakes, lack coordination, reconnaissance or battle plan, if this not happen, fight is very fast and can end in 1 way only.
Mamba has a tiny tad more dps, to make up for it being larger more hittable target. :) I know the golden rule of 'attack the hybrid first' and I take full advantage of it, I cannot tell you how many fights we've won because they focused me when I was literally the toughest ship in the instance. Here is a prime example...

You don't have to believe me, but let me try to tell you that not many people build their hybrids right. I do, and I'm happy to share my insight. My hybrid has a metric BUTT-TON more effective health than a FDL, promise. The only way you're getting me out first is module sniping and module targeting and as you can see below, they FINALLY got my thrusters, by the time I was at 1%. I'm not saying I'm special, I'm not a special pilot, that's for sure, but I am a special shipbuilder, and only fear the very best module snipers in the game. This is a 5v5 practice session, everyone in the instance is a significant lawful player whose main playstyle is pvp. We won, thanks to my correctly anticipating that they would focus me first (they always do, the gits!!) :D I even hit a rock, hard, right near the beginning. But only one. ;)

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fnbUUlkK4s
 
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Check this!!!
Hey Fuego!! This is a good build, no question, but it can be better. I posted this earlier in the thread. We can discuss the differences here or on spear, whatever you prefer mate. I have more shield with a faster recharge per mj, more armor, more module protection and it only cost me 1mps of boost and little thermal (with a huge gain of kinetic). :)

 
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