The reason Mobius admins monitor so heavily is because there is nothing in place to keep it PVE mechanic wise. People can't join willy nilly, yes a few have slipped through. Sadly what you are suggesting won't work as in an open PVE with just moderators to enforce they will be reactive only. You have a group who are determined for others to be their content and can join Open any time they want. THey would have to write new code to block those accounts that abuse from logging into that mode. Otherwise they will do it again and again.
The reason Mobius admins monitor so heavily is because there is nothing in place to keep it PVE mechanic wise. People can't join willy nilly, yes a few have slipped through. Sadly what you are suggesting won't work as in an open PVE with just moderators to enforce they will be reactive only. You have a group who are determined for others to be their content and can join Open any time they want. THey would have to write new code to block those accounts that abuse from logging into that mode. Otherwise they will do it again and again.
That isn't the only way, as I suggested above. In "Open PvE" ... if you send someone to the rebuy screen, you get excluded from "Open PvE" for e.g. a month. Solved!
A month? That won't give the hardcore/sadistic type pause.
If you accidently shoot a player, or even intentionally attack them, but stop short of the rebuy screen this could work. If you send someone to a rebuy screen, you should loose everything. Credits, ranks, ships, everything.
That might make some stop and think. Maybe.
Sadly, no. They would just find ways to abuse the system so that the victims get the blame and lose everything.
What Wrmiller and Zieman said... that suggestion just means once a month they can freely PVP in the PVE mode while then going back to their PVP mode laughing.
Well, if you could strip them of everything, then there's nothing for them to 'go back to'.
And if the system was properly thought out and designed, then there would be no 'gaming the system'. But I'm not holding my breath that the makers of this game could do it.
I'm really starting to hate multi-player anything...
And if the system was properly thought out and designed, then there would be no 'gaming the system'. But I'm not holding my breath that the makers of this game could do it.
I'm really starting to hate multi-player anything...
Well, if you could strip them of everything, then there's nothing for them to 'go back to'.
And if the system was properly thought out and designed, then there would be no 'gaming the system'. But I'm not holding my breath that the makers of this game could do it.
I'm really starting to hate multi-player anything...
So if you PVP in the PVE mode you lose everything in all modes? May forstal
I wonder how many it would detour... and don't call me sirYessir. Too harsh?
I wonder how many it would detour... and don't call me sir
Yes mam...
*Bill's running for the door...*
Thank You, and no need to run ^,^
A few thoughts on this...
I'm a fan of freedom. Always have been. Turning Open into "Open PvE" would only serve to be the exact parallel opposite of what we have now- except it would be PvP players going on about how disadvantaged they are because PvE players "control" Open... not directly, mind you, but by prevalent game mechanics.
Firstly, regarding the modes and player damage, it's already been noted by Frontier devs saying there's a damage threshold mechanic for player/player, which they use in Wings for "friendly fire" to ignore a portion of it. If the code already exists in game, then it means there's not a "significant amount of coding" needed to make such changes. That's one possibility- and probably the most cost-effective solution IF they chose to implement a "PvE-centric" mode where player/player damage is ignored. There's also a significant amount of speculation as to why they "won't" do this, mainly from those who wish to PvP... I have yet to see a PvE player challenge such a mechanic, even for "immersion" purposes... mostly what I see are objections from other players who want to be able to shoot other players.
Secondly, an alternative would be for Frontier to populate Open with active GM's who enforce the rules- much akin to Mobius PvE. I seriously doubt this would ever happen, because it's costly having to employ active moderators 24/7 based on this notion alone. Most other games already do this- but this game wasn't ever intended to be actively patrolled by moderators. They released it with the implication that the players themselves would "moderate", which is a total flop considering many will simply do whatever they can get away with- and there's really nothing others can do to "stop" that. Hell even if we had a significant amount of players fully willing to "bounty hunt" or "police" those who actively PK (grief, gank, whatever you want to call it) what would it actually solve? Do you really think they're going to "tire" of it? That's the type of gameplay they thrive on to begin with- combat with other players. And that's why Open is never going to change- has nothing to do with "meaningful" PvP. (which the term is completely subjective to begin with) That's not a solution to PKing, nor will it ever be.
Open has devolved to a "starve them out" tactic by PvE players because they're simply victims of their own success. They got exactly what they wanted- they made their bed, let them lay in it. Make no changes to Open, but rather make improvements to Private Groups that increase the limits exponentially, give players a simple toggle that disallows friendly fire between players (using the damage threshold noted in my first point) and then there's no major changes needed to the game whatsoever. Mobius can simply BE the Open PvE mode that's needed. No additional menu mode, players in Open can't whinge that they were made "homeless", etc. Let them keep dirtying their sandbox, while others simply go about enjoying their own game as they have been.
Remember, oppressing oppressors makes you an oppressor. There's no two ways about it. Give everyone their own little corner to play in, and if they break their own toys or dirty their corner, then OH WELL.
I'm a fan of freedom. Always have been. Turning Open into "Open PvE" would only serve to be the exact parallel opposite of what we have now- except it would be PvP players going on about how disadvantaged they are because PvE players "control" Open... not directly, mind you, but by prevalent game mechanics.
Firstly, regarding the modes and player damage, it's already been noted by Frontier devs saying there's a damage threshold mechanic for player/player, which they use in Wings for "friendly fire" to ignore a portion of it. If the code already exists in game, then it means there's not a "significant amount of coding" needed to make such changes. That's one possibility- and probably the most cost-effective solution IF they chose to implement a "PvE-centric" mode where player/player damage is ignored. There's also a significant amount of speculation as to why they "won't" do this, mainly from those who wish to PvP... I have yet to see a PvE player challenge such a mechanic, even for "immersion" purposes... mostly what I see are objections from other players who want to be able to shoot other players.
Secondly, an alternative would be for Frontier to populate Open with active GM's who enforce the rules- much akin to Mobius PvE. I seriously doubt this would ever happen, because it's costly having to employ active moderators 24/7 based on this notion alone. Most other games already do this- but this game wasn't ever intended to be actively patrolled by moderators. They released it with the implication that the players themselves would "moderate", which is a total flop considering many will simply do whatever they can get away with- and there's really nothing others can do to "stop" that. Hell even if we had a significant amount of players fully willing to "bounty hunt" or "police" those who actively PK (grief, gank, whatever you want to call it) what would it actually solve? Do you really think they're going to "tire" of it? That's the type of gameplay they thrive on to begin with- combat with other players. And that's why Open is never going to change- has nothing to do with "meaningful" PvP. (which the term is completely subjective to begin with) That's not a solution to PKing, nor will it ever be.
Open has devolved to a "starve them out" tactic by PvE players because they're simply victims of their own success. They got exactly what they wanted- they made their bed, let them lay in it. Make no changes to Open, but rather make improvements to Private Groups that increase the limits exponentially, give players a simple toggle that disallows friendly fire between players (using the damage threshold noted in my first point) and then there's no major changes needed to the game whatsoever. Mobius can simply BE the Open PvE mode that's needed. No additional menu mode, players in Open can't whinge that they were made "homeless", etc. Let them keep dirtying their sandbox, while others simply go about enjoying their own game as they have been.
Remember, oppressing oppressors makes you an oppressor. There's no two ways about it. Give everyone their own little corner to play in, and if they break their own toys or dirty their corner, then OH WELL.
I think I really, really like this idea!
Having Mobius as Open PvE is fine. A community moderated group with unlimited members, is by far the best solution to the Open PvE problem.
Leaving open as it is for PvP would not be good enough to make me interested.
If FD want PvP they need to make work.
20 minutes fights and 15 sec. logout timer isn't functional. Only those with little knowlege of the game face any risk.
CQC is still the only platform we have where PvP actually works.
To bad it's a different game and mostly empty. [blah]
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Private Groups, sadly, have limited populations- c.20,000 on PC and c.1,000 on consoles.
.... or those not outfitted for combat who don't spot the hollow triangle in time - destroyed in seconds is not uncommon in that situation.
The population limit is the biggest issue with PGs, in my opinion. An official community moderated PvE group would not have this problem, as everyone would be a member. The 'list' would only contain those that has received an infraction and are not allowed to join.
The game as it stands now, has killing unaware commanders in less than 15 second as the only part of PvP that works without any form of meta. I think most of see that this isn't very productive.
PvP is competitive in it's nature. In it's simplest form it has two goals. Kill the other guy and don't get killed.
In ED not a single commander that is interested in participating in PvP is at any risk of getting killed(unless they want to). Only those that are not interested in PvP can provide the primary objective of those that want to do it.
It's not hard to see this goes.
Perhaps the answer is something like leave Open as it is, a simulation, where asymmetrical PvP is the norm?
Revamp CqC for more symmetrical and balanced PvP. It needs something Open doesn’t have. A selling point!
I can see the Open we have now as sort of a PvP playground, where you make your own rules and have little matches. I don't see it as a PvP game. It does not have the mechanics to be a PvP game.
*coughs*
*clears throat*
*puts on best 90s Kid impression*
But don't you see, with just a few tweaks it is a perfect PvP game.
You just have to remove the mode system, fix combat logging, ban menu logging, remove the block list, fix the networking/ instancing, ban firewalls / router medling and make it so no one can shoot back at me when I gank them;
It's that easy and it's a perfect PvP game.
[Disclaimer : this is a joke post]
I have to admit. It was a rather poor impression. (nice attempt though)
He uses short sentences. Like this.
To punctuate for emphasis.
And lots of returns. Hard returns.
As if making a statement. Simply makes it truth. Provides a closed loop. Like a broken record.
It plays the same track. Over and over. Because its a broken record.
Because its truth. All truth. Undeniable truth. And you can't prove it isn't!
BwahahahahahHAHAH
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