PVP Server and Trader Server

I have been posting suggestions on how to make this game more action packed, but for every post about making the game more action packed there is another post with a suggestion on how they should gimp pirates, have pvp flags, etc.

Maybe it would be a good idea just to have a Real Dangerous Server(PVP) and a Not So Dangerous Server. Quite frankly I am concerned that no one will get what they want, because Frontier will try to pander to both sides. Right now due to the popularity of

trading they cannot make the game as action packed as a lot of other players want.


My suggestion is keep the current server as the "Trading Server" and for Frontier to create a "Chaos Server" where the population of NPC traders, pirates, and other opponents are multiplied by 5 or even 10 when compared to what we now have. This would

make combat easier to find in the galaxy and appease the fighter focused players. My hopes would be that players choosing trading as their profession would still choose the latter alternative for a little more excitement, but if they don't then

Frontier can simply adjust the PVP economy from time to time. I think this would be a simple solution to make everyone happy.
 
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All the PVP pirates would stay on the "Trading Server", they're not (as) interested in NPCs.

To be honest, the kinder universe offered by the idea of a "Trading Server" already exists. Solo mode, or playing with a PvE group (Mobius seems to get mentioned a lot on that count.)

If FD wanted the game to be a little less trading focused, all they need to do tweak the rewards to reduce the emphasis on trade somewhat
- make trading slightly less profitable (e.g. narrow the gap a few % between demand/supply prices. Tears would be shed.)
- make piracy more profitable and/or fun
- - make stolen goods give a better rate of return (75% instead of 50%?)
- - figure out a way to lengthen player interactions slightly (so there's actually some time for players to communicate instead of having to instantly resort to pewpew/boost))
- make missions more profitable and/or fun
- make exploration more profitable
 
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I have proposed another solution here: basicly it is a way to make PVP/PVE/and peacefull multiplayer possible and everybody can play in the same-open mode.
Showing colours!!!
You show your colours (fed/imperial/allience) if you participate in the naval ranking mission already available. Picking one side means you loose progression in the other side.
Give the option to players if they want to pick a side and show their allegiance...
Showing your allegiance means you are open to PVP and feds can hunt imperials.

Players who don't wanna pick side can do it, they stay independant and can travel anywhere but have an average degree of protection. They are protected by the Pilot Organisation and killing an independent is a heavy crime (big WANTED fines)
Pirates should have a hideout in anarchy systems.

Traders who want an uber-safe space could trade in the core of federal or imperial space but they would have to choose a side/show colours in order to get a higher degree of protection by allied CMDR's/NPC and have a smaller profit margin. etc...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=115503
 
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It has been stated time and again, that there will not be a PvP or PvE server. There is, and will continue to be, Open, Solo and Group.
 
This did actually work for Ultima Online back in the day. Though I tend to agree, the game is large enough to support you in whatever you choose. Plus, play solo or with a private group.
 
I think that is a terrible idea, if they split it up like that it would take away the suspense completely while doing trade runs.
 
Not a bad idea, actually.

There should be a sandbox easy mode without the ability to fit guns that doesn't interfer with the universe for pacifists. Merge private groups into the mode, split the universe between both modes and get rid of solo online and group play on the same save.
 
Any time a pvp'er says traders should be forced into open, or open should have different rewards, "don't like the challenge go play solo", or the modes should have exclusive saves, <snip>.

The modes work as they are. Not everyone likes competitive multiplayer. Some people like cooperation. Not everyone likes the same things as 'you' do and it's ok.
 
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thjere's enough pvp types out there to form rival groups right here on the OPEN play server.....they don't have to go far! I am surprised I only see rivalry between pirate pvper and trader....where's the anti pirate bounter hunters? :)
 
I think this kind of suggestions open the possibilities for FRONTIER to keep tweaking the modes we already have for the better. These are all welcome however, I think that having a solo mode is quite easy enough already. I have made millions on solo mode and upgraded my COBRA to almost A tier on everything. The NPCs AI is easy most of the times and when you get a challenge is usually a good one. Open play is too messy specially for new players. We have people out there killing and persecuting players on sidewinders without any cargo who can barely land their ships. Most of these guys want to have a social experience but its really hard when most of the people you meet in open play want to just destroy you for the heck of it. I'm glad for solo mode but OPEN need to have some punishments for these kind of people. Its one thing to have a PvP scenario and other is to have jerks killing new players for the heck of it. I say this because me and some of my friends experienced the same thing.
 
I have proposed another solution here: basicly it is a way to make PVP/PVE/and peacefull multiplayer possible and everybody can play in the same-open mode.
Showing colours!!!
You show your colours (fed/imperial/allience) if you participate in the naval ranking mission already available. Picking one side means you loose progression in the other side.
Give the option to players if they want to pick a side and show their allegiance...
Showing your allegiance means you are open to PVP and feds can hunt imperials.

Players who don't wanna pick side can do it, they stay independant and can travel anywhere but have an average degree of protection. They are protected by the Pilot Organisation and killing an independent is a heavy crime (big WANTED fines)
Pirates should have a hideout in anarchy systems.

Traders who want an uber-safe space could trade in the core of federal or imperial space but they would have to choose a side/show colours in order to get a higher degree of protection by allied CMDR's/NPC and have a smaller profit margin. etc...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=115503

YES. All of this except the independent part...I think Indies should be totally off limits...but only because it would keep more traders in the Online game.

While i am not looking for a PVP 'flag' system, we need someway to keep the space lanes full... I do think picking sides would give lots of weight and direction to all you choices and actions. It would give piracy more legitimacy. It would separate the true pirates (those who attack independents for their cargo, not simply to kill them) and those just looking for a good ole PVP tumble, as those lookng for PVP scraps can now have a defined target in the form of player from the other sides. Make pirating profitable through stealing of goods, and make killing of indies very expensive...maybe we would see more true pirates...
 
I got a solution. Remove Easy Mode, by which I mean piracy as is. Being able to pick your underpowered targets and pay off the consequences. Risk free and consequence free. It's traders who do the hard work and face real risks.

Let's make piracy the real dangerous choice. No paying off bounties, progressive withdrawal of access to any but anarchy facilities, hounded by beefed up security. Trade ships able to mount and power better defences. Then piracy will be worthy of respect.

I'd like the option of playing piracy properly. Piracy in the current form isn't a respectable activity, it's just swanning around picking in pilots who cannot by the nature of the situation, put up any fight. All they can do is hope they don't get killed, which as that also is consequence free, happens too often.

Let's have proper hard core piracy. Let it be a real hard road that's fun to play.

I think more traders would be in Open if killer behaviour was harshly penalised by in game consequences. It could still happen but at least you can have some respect for those doing it.
 
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I have been posting suggestions on how to make this game more action packed, but for every post about making the game more action packed there is another post with a suggestion on how they should gimp pirates, have pvp flags, etc.

Maybe it would be a good idea just to have a Real Dangerous Server(PVP) and a Not So Dangerous Server. Quite frankly I am concerned that no one will get what they want, because Frontier will try to pander to both sides. Right now due to the popularity of

trading they cannot make the game as action packed as a lot of other players want.


My suggestion is keep the current server as the "Trading Server" and for Frontier to create a "Chaos Server" where the population of NPC traders, pirates, and other opponents are multiplied by 5 or even 10 when compared to what we now have. This would

make combat easier to find in the galaxy and appease the fighter focused players. My hopes would be that players choosing trading as their profession would still choose the latter alternative for a little more excitement, but if they don't then

Frontier can simply adjust the PVP economy from time to time. I think this would be a simple solution to make everyone happy.

Unfortunately, that's not the way it works - there's only one server - the universe! You can't separate it all out. You can join PvE groups who have a non aggression pact if you'd like, or trade in places where other players aren't (that might as well be a private server - I'm out and about and hardly ever see anyone).

Combat ready pilots fly around anarchies and feudal systems, safe traders stay to the safe lanes. I agree that bounties for interdiction and attacks need to run on a non linear scale based on frequency you've done it in the past, repetitive piracy, but even for the time being, there are plenty of viable options for all play types.
 
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the system we have now; the problem is that NPC behaviour didn't fit with the lore established in the earlier games, nor with the political and military state of the systems as depicted on the galactic map. Anarchies were as safe as democracies.

From my experience yesterday evening it looks as though that's changing. Bounty hunting in one of the more lawless systems I dropped into several USSs where I was greeted not by the usual one or two pirates who attack one at a time, but by a pack of three or four who retaliated in a group as soon as I opened up on the first. At one point I had an Eagle, Cobra and two Sidewinders all wading in and firing simultaneously. The Sidewinders were flying as primary and wingman, and were in such close formation that their radar returns were almost merged. It reminded me so much of the pirate packs in the original Elite it almost brought a nostalgic tear to my eye.

The difficulty still needs ramping up IMO; I'm not the greatest combat pilot and even though that particular pirate group did serious damage to my hull I managed to see them all off which felt a bit generous. I really should have had to run. But I'm sure further tweaks are coming. If just one of those Sidewinders had had twin rails I'd have probably been toast anyway.

The point is that the "difficulty rating" or "action level" in the Elite games has always been about choosing where you go and what you do, not about picking a global difficulty level or setting flags. So far ED has failed to match the behaviour of the earlier games in this regard, but it looks like things are finally coming together. It has a way to go but it's definitely headed in the right direction.

The elephant in the room is, as ever, PvP. It's relatively easy to make the bulk of NPC behaviour match the conditions of each system, but very difficult to force the same behaviour on people. PvPers who aren't role-playing are going to go where the most fun is to be had, and right now that means anywhere where other players congregate, including supposedly safe systems.

IMO what FD need to do, among other tweaks and improvements, is

  • Continue to buff NPC grouping and aggression in more lawless systems, to give players a genuine challenge and encourage people to choose destinations commensurate with their skills.

  • Give system police and military NPCs the same buffing as the pirate packs and have them respond much more quickly -- almost instantaneously if necessary -- in high security systems. I know people will argue that this is unrealistic ("Where did they come from?") but it's only a response to "unrealistic" behaviour ("Why can I be attacked by a player in a rich, high security, system?"). If the latter can't be prevented, the former must be allowed.

  • Enforce huge tax levies on trade in the safer systems, to offset the police presence. I know it sticks in some people's craws, but there really should be routes where traders can fly in unshielded space trucks without fear of attack. The jump distances in the original Elite made such routes very difficult to find but there were plenty in Frontier and FFE. By levying system-specific taxation on trade and even fuel, ED can make sure that while these routes exist, the profits to be made flying a fully laden T9 are massively reduced compared with those flying in less well policed systems. Encourage people to take risks for profits, but always give them the option of playing it safe for a much reduced reward.
If a player chooses to stick to the safer routes it should take months of play to grind to each new tier of trade ship. The T9 should take years. Yes, literally years. If "hardcore" players stop seeing the idea of well-policed trade routes as an "easy mode to riches" then perhaps, just perhaps, they'll be a little more forgiving of those who choose that style of play. And if safe traders find that their choice of routes isn't bringing in the readies as fast as they'd like then maybe, just maybe, they'll choose to venture a little further afield and be less dismissive of the player pirates if they have a run-in with them. If a player-on-player interdiction occurs because the trader chose a riskier route, the trader can shoulder some of the responsibility. At the moment such encounters can occur anywhere, which always makes the trader feel like a random victim rather than someone who took a gamble and lost.

The problem right now is that ED is still somewhat of a shell of what it could be, but instead of envisioning ways of filling out that shell to provide gameplay opportunities for a whole range of play styles, people are concentrating on the bits that don't fit with their favoured style and proposing solutions that will either force more players into their camp or ship them off to ever more distant digital leper colonies where they won't have to interact with them at all. The call for server splitting is the epitome of that argument.

ED is better than that. FD have created a whole galaxy in which to play, and if they can't tweak the game elements to make different aspects of that galaxy attractive to a whole range of players then there's something very wrong.
 
I think more traders would be in Open if killer behaviour was harshly penalised by in game consequences. It could still happen but at least you can have some respect for those doing it.

I agree entirely. Piracy is easy mode. There's no doubt about that. Cruise around and interdict only the players you know you can beat then steal their stuff like a chav stealing a kids phone.

It's pretty much consequence free. Even if you bite off more than you can chew you just lose a few hundred thousand credits for your Viper rebuy, pay off the miserable fine for murder and go out and do it again.

Meanwhile the unarmed and helpless traders you have mugged have collectively lost millions.

How about a running tally of how many murders fines you've had to pay and over a certain number you lose your insurance so that when you do get killed you have to pay the full value of your ship or go back to a Sidewinder. A decently kitted out Viper is only a couple of million so that would go some way to evening out the consequences and might deter the psychopaths and give genuine pirates a reason not to kill traders after mugging them.
 
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