NPC aren't as dangerous as people, and people game the system and take advantage of poor weapon balance whenever they find it. NPC loadouts are pretty random, but humans seem to always have huge stacks of SCB, and target power plants as soon as the shields go down as they aren't protected by armour.
So a ship like the Asp is pretty rubbish in combat in PvE and won't make loads of cash in CZ. In PvP it can carry and power about 20 SCB (something NPC never do) giving it insane shields vs the equivalent combat ships. Some great PvE ships are useless in PvP because they can't carry loads of SCB.
So if it work in pvp it'll work in pve. Kinda what I thought. Stacking SCB is dumb because once there spent you have a vastly inferior ship. A clipper can capitalize by taking shields out, then mass lock. You'll wish you didn't waste a class 6 or 7 on SCBs. And to forego a scanner for an extra SCB is plain stupid. Your ship is not capable of anything else. But they do have a use in class 3 or 4 slots
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You miss some things:
- before you spent all scb's you have a buffer and if the fight go south this buffer allows you to high jump most of the time.
- a dedicated combat ship it's always better than a ship fitted for multirole. If your ship it's not a dedicated combat ship, most of the times in pvp you will lose plain and simple so a exploring, trading and fighting ship it's a big no no in pvp.
Dedicated combat ship would be better than a multi-role ship if multi-role ship would actually be used as jack of all trades. So far, all multi-role ships are being used as dedicated fighters/traders/explorers, switching internals and modules as players pleased without penalty. Frontier wanted to address that issue by introducing -10% on module sale, but most of the community was against it. Personally, i would love to see -10% on module sales being implemented.
Real purpose of a multi-role ship, the way I see it, is to be efficient at all roles at once, but excelling at non. That way FDL and vulture, being dedicated combat ships from the start, would be superior in combat as they were intended.
Real purpose of a multi-role ship, the way I see it, is to be efficient at all roles at once, but excelling at non. That way FDL and vulture, being dedicated combat ships from the start, would be superior in combat as they were intended.
There are better options. SCBs use power as well as space so it's more than mere inconvenience of outfitting your ship with them. Chances are, they are skimping in weapons or shield generator or power distributor. All of which I max in a Clipper. I can take down shields very quick with 2 C3 beams. If you manage to activate an SCB on time, that's 1 spent. Now you wish you had better power management. I can shoot a steady beam indefinitely without overheating. Plus with mostly D rated modules I can pitch to keep them on you. If you do manage to get time to return fire, a C7 generator is usually enough to keep my shields intact along with a C6 distributor. If not, I use my own C3 or C4 SCBs or simply put in some distance until shields are full before they go offline. In short, the longer you stay in battle with an SCB loadout, the more the weakness of power mismanagement becomes apparent.
I was shocked there wasn't a trade in penalty. Even more surprised the community was against it since ED strives to replicate a believable simulation with physics and a real galaxy. That's very peculiar indeed, especially when you consider most games implement some trade in deficit that make no pretences to mimic reality. So yes, of course I would be in favor of a 10% penalty or ideally, a pro-rated degradation
Wow, the only thing i can ask is this: are you sure about all this after only one pvp encounter? Because believe me this is only theoretical. Real pvp is far away from this theory. But don't trust me please search youtube for pvp battles and in at least 90% movies you will see how good is at the moment an scb loadout. After this, search forums and read rivers of tears about how unfair are scb's in pvp. Personally for me, if this is the best for the moment i use it. When the trend change i will adapt and i use the new trend, but for the moment in pvp a ship full of boosters and scb's it's pretty much the norm.
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It seems that nobody mentioned it, so...
PvP loadouts usually are made for single short fight. The only purpose is to get all you can from given ship to be able to win single fight. They often rely on consumables (like railgun with its very limited ammo) and have to dock and rearm after almost every fight. This is really bad for PvE because you will waste a lot of time rearming, and npc-s do not require such extreme loadouts anyway.
And anyone who will try to avoid it (use lasers instead of rails, do not use scb/chaff, do not disable life support to save power, etc) will be at huge disadvantage in PvP fight.
PvP loadouts usually are made for single short fight. The only purpose is to get all you can from given ship to be able to win single fight. They often rely on consumables (like railgun with its very limited ammo) and have to dock and rearm after almost every fight. This is really bad for PvE because you will waste a lot of time rearming, and npc-s do not require such extreme loadouts anyway.
And anyone who will try to avoid it (use lasers instead of rails, do not use scb/chaff, do not disable life support to save power, etc) will be at huge disadvantage in PvP fight.
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I totally agree with that. When you fight in pvp you have to do maximum damage in the shortest time because your enemy will do the same to you. In pve, the npc's are deliberately made weaker because if they have human like artificial intelligence they will be too strong. So in pve you can get away with smaller damage applied in a longer time, when in pvp you have to go with the maximum damage you can get from your ship.
Don't forget also the tank in this equation: in pve most of time the "natural" regeneration of your shield is enough (except maybe assassination missions ), in pvp you are really forced to use scb's for faster shield regeneration. More scb's more chances to win the fight.
It's really easy to remember and i bet is the same in many mmo's (in EVE in my experience): for pvp burst/alpha/highest damage per second sustained by every consumable no matter the price, in pve continuous damage, not the best per second, but sustained longer times with "natural" resources of the ship (capacitor for example).
Yes and no. I did win against a Vulture and Courier in Wing in pvp and oddly had more trouble with the Courier. Defeated the Vulture and Courier escaped. They were filling my comm channel trying to goad me into same so I would take my focus off of firing lol. Interesting tactic. But I have Gone up against Pythons and Vipers in wing (and won) that were NPC so I'm estimating that would be roughly the human equivalent to an SCB loaded Asp. Could be wrong, but SCB come at a greater cost than worth unless you use them in class 3 or 4 slots imo. If I run out and taking hull damage, I just run. It is after all, a Clipper and a huge advantage. Not just that, but for using the AFM at a safe distance to repair the shield generator
Nope they are not the equivalent. And you are wrong indeed if you imagine a player can let you run to repair and wait for you to come back. All the time you will be hunted down until you escape, you are dead or you won. We humans, started as hunters/gatherers after all.
In PvP you want good "burst" damage and quick emergency defenses (SCB) for one combat encounter.
In PvE as has been said the foes are easier and predictable and you more or less decide when and how to fight. So often you prefer a setup that lasts over longer time.
So in PvP for example you might fit stuff with high damage but low ammo reserves like Railguns or this or that Cannon. In PvE you probably prefer Laser and Multicannons.
But I agree that a good PvP setup will also work in PvE, only credit efficiency per time spend grinding would perhaps dictate a preferred different setup. But then, when you are having more fun in a PvP setup, efficiency is not really the goal of the game.
The other way round though will probably be less good, have an efficient PvE also be best for PvP.
In PvE as has been said the foes are easier and predictable and you more or less decide when and how to fight. So often you prefer a setup that lasts over longer time.
So in PvP for example you might fit stuff with high damage but low ammo reserves like Railguns or this or that Cannon. In PvE you probably prefer Laser and Multicannons.
But I agree that a good PvP setup will also work in PvE, only credit efficiency per time spend grinding would perhaps dictate a preferred different setup. But then, when you are having more fun in a PvP setup, efficiency is not really the goal of the game.
The other way round though will probably be less good, have an efficient PvE also be best for PvP.
But the player first needs to catch a Clipper with 4 pips on engines ;-)
That seems to be the gist of it. I suppose I don't have the practical experience to back up the theory of goading the enemy into spending their SCBs and cannons then mass locking them while peppering them with beams and multis. Clipper seems to be the perfect ship for that but I'll have to wait for the opportunity to test.