Question about combat logging. Would love some feedback.

[Miko]

Hello there community.


I have been playing this game for sometime on both the PC and more recently the Xbox One. I have barely ever played this game on Open Play and I will express my main reasons why.

I have spent a large amount of hours slowly working my way up in this game to the point where I now fly a Python that is moderately well kitted out. This took a lot of bounty hunting, mining, trading etc. I have suffered a few set backs during this time where I have been destroyed but thankfully could afford the insurance.

More recently I was mining and suffered from numerous disconnects due to the transaction server. Upon reloading the game I was randomly attacked by ships that spawned and had flown into me a great speed. My ship exploded and I suffered a huge loss. I started back at starport with less than sufficient credits to cover my insurance headed back out to mine all over again after losing my cargo and bounties accumulated etc.

I was interdicted by an Anaconda wing sometime later and yet again I was rammed by the ship causing terrible damage. Panicking I jammed my finger into the power button immediately disconnecting my game.

So, the main question. Should I feel ashamed to do this when this unforgiving game would have seen me start out with a Sidewinder and grind days on end just to get back to where I was? I appreciate the risk and gravity of loss, but I cannot help but wonder what it must be like for players in Open Play who are set upon by wings of bullies. Every game has them after all. But why should someone have to start all over again when there are so many things to contend with, such as bad luck, lag, griefers, or legitimate loss of connection which this game suffers from frequently even in solo mode.

Anyway, I think if this game is to penalise combat logging then it must compromise and offer a better insurance policy for those who have put a lot of hours behind their game, because to implement a delay timer would potentially cause a lot of upset through legit disconnects where someone was disconnected prior to docking or navigating an asteroid field at speed. Just food for thought.

Anyway, any thoughts? Thanks.

 

[Marshall...]

As this was done in solo and you are staying in solo, i think you are the only person that can really answer your question (though i know others will say otherwise).

I personally have lost 3 ships bug to bugs/lag and have contacted support who were able to verify what had happened and reimbursed me.

 

[bamber]

There already is a delay timer if you try and exit normally when in danger of 15 seconds

Open play is easy its the usual answer 100000 systems in the bubble about 20000 occupied -avoiding the anaconda wings is easy as you can want

Also insurance increases as you improve yourself from a low initial value to a higher value later on

if you die and have insurance pay the insurance if after paying the insurance you don't have enough left over then do something sensible until you do have enough money. If you lose your python and then don't have enough money for the next insurance and go wondering off into a high risk strategy that's your fault no the game. if you die do something sensible like trading in safe systems until; you have paid of your insurance and got enough for your next insurance payout

 

[shambles1980]

if you cant afford to fly the ship. don't buy it unless you are willing to restart in a sidewinder if all goes wrong.

no idea how you people would have coped with the games we had back in the 80's

 

[dementia]

This has been discussed a lot since pretty much the beginning.

Personally I see combat logging as cheating the game as you are exploiting a mechanic of the game play designed for one thing (handling genuine log/drop outs to free up the server resources you use) and using it for another (to save yourself from your own bad judgement). I'm sure many people (usually those that do it) would strongly disagree but there you go.

Personally I've never seen the need nor had the urge to do it. You should never leave a station without sufficient credits to cover the insurance (unless you are willing to take the risk).

There have been countless ideas banded about as a way to solve this problem but they all have their downsides.

Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate your sense of loss and dealing with grievers is an issue that drives people to playing solo or in private groups. The problem is that the game would be hard pressed to detect the difference between a genuine disconnect due to a problem (not player caused) and a disconnect caused by something pulling the plug.

 

[epoch71]

no idea how you people would have coped with the games we had back in the 80's

Because three lives and "game over" is easier to stomach than losing several months of hard graft.

 

[bamber]

This has been discussed a lot since pretty much the beginning.



Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate your sense of loss and dealing with grievers is an issue that drives people to playing solo or in private groups. QUOTE]


AGAIN..........people who run to private or solo to avoid friefers don't understand the game 100000 systems in the bubble 20000 occupied - its finding people that's the hard bit not avoiding them

 

[dementia]

This has been discussed a lot since pretty much the beginning.



Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate your sense of loss and dealing with grievers is an issue that drives people to playing solo or in private groups. QUOTE]


AGAIN..........people who run to private or solo to avoid friefers don't understand the game 100000 systems in the bubble 20000 occupied - its finding people that's the hard bit not avoiding them

I disagree. Solo and Private group players understand the game well enough. They just have no interest in playing with people they don't know. If a friend annoys you, you know where they live ;-) Grievers are simply cowardly trolls that I guarantee wouldn't do it if there was some personal risk to their health for doing it! (i.e. if people knew their real names and where they lived) lol

There are countless reasons for playing Solo. I for instance play solo not to necessarily avoid grievers (i've never personally had that issue) but rather to give me a better frame rate with my DK2 (Open causes a real drop in the framerate).

 

[Miko]

This thread is more a general enquiry out of interest.

I played the games of the 80's and I actually play games quite well. I appreciate the concept of this being my responsibility entirely if I choose to fly a Python, but as it stands the game doesn't reward you immensely without hard work, but it takes from you quickly if you run into trouble with bad luck (such as being suddenly rammed by a large vessel coming to scan you).

I asked for feedback, so that's fair enough, but I don't want to be branded a cheat for a disconnect on solo mode.

But, again, how would you prevent people losing their ships to genuine loss of connection to the server? Should people lose millions or their entire effort over that?

 

[IceFire122]

no idea how you people would have coped with the games we had back in the 80's

Well, we had the savegames under our control and could make back-ups (save early, save often). In that respect, ED is more harsh than previous games: Only one save, no backup under user control.

 

[Marshall...]

This thread is more a general enquiry out of interest.

I played the games of the 80's and I actually play games quite well. I appreciate the concept of this being my responsibility entirely if I choose to fly a Python, but as it stands the game doesn't reward you immensely without hard work, but it takes from you quickly if you run into trouble with bad luck (such as being suddenly rammed by a large vessel coming to scan you).

I asked for feedback, so that's fair enough, but I don't want to be branded a cheat for a disconnect on solo mode.

But, again, how would you prevent people losing their ships to genuine loss of connection to the server? Should people lose millions or their entire effort over that?

In that instance, i would log a ticket. An example from one of my 3 calls to support was:

Super lag when existing SC to a station instance, it got stuck in the loop for about nearly 10 minutes, then decided to exit my ship inside the inside outer walls (if that makes sense) of a station. So the lag, plus a bug put me in a position where i was destroyed (i did bounce around inside the inside of the station for a minute or two, much to my horror).

 

[shambles1980]

there were many games with no lives or saves. megaman is one that stands out.


as for being branded "a cheat"

Sorry but as the devs say this is an exploit and you should not do it.. that's the only thing you can be branded as.

personally..
i could not care less what people do in solo. but you came to ask opinions on it.
Now i dont even like games that let you save where you want to save. i think you should only be able to save at a checkpoint or something.
and id be perfectly happy if you were not able to log off unless you docked 1st. (and i do have a family, and i have had to run off and leave my ship more than once to deal with issues)

1ce i was blown up whilst i was afk. and a nother time when i had to answer the door after making a fsd jump i managed to get back with the interior of my ship bursting in to flames because i was to close to a star..
So i do understand that this could be a burden. But you do have insurance. And you also get a small loan now too if you some how managed to spend a bit to much on cargo and dint quite cover the re-buy.

So i do think docking or die would work, BUT that would destroy exploration for all but the ones who were willing to stay logged in as they slept or worked irl. and crashes etc would have people submiting tickets like there was no tomorrow. so that option is impossible.

 

[Ian Skippy]

This is a non-debate. FD has specifically mentioned that this is NOT accepted, that they use telemetry to detect it and reserve the right to punish those found doing it. Combat-logging is cheating, and there is no excuse for it. Noone should 'compensate' anyone to prevent them from cheating.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=105778

But, again, how would you prevent people losing their ships to genuine loss of connection to the server? Should people lose millions or their entire effort over that?

We have special tickets for that with support. If you lose assets due to bugs or such you'll get your money back, usually within 48 hours. In any case, cheating/exploiting is never a valid solution. If one dislikes the rules of a game, one should play a different game. Its really an internet-thing, every sane individual understands you dont cheat or exploit when you find something unfair when playing a tabletop game, but somehow we tend to 'forget' these things when we become anonymous.

 

[IceFire122]

Should people lose millions or their entire effort over that?

This (losing your entire effort) can be completely avoided: If you claim your insurance and don't have enough for the next potential claim, downgrade your ship or its equipment before heading into potential danger.
If you forgot to do so, you can downgrade your ship in the insurance screen as well by de-selecting single modules, but it will cost you more (the full module cost). Also, this only works, while you still have sufficient money for the base ship insurance left.

In case you lost your effort because of not following above suggestions and a server/connection bug, the support team will help you. In case no bug was involved, they probably help anyway at least once for every player (as far as I heard).

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Combat Logging, any kind of it let it be PvE, PvP is nothing to be proud of and it is one of the most terrible thing players can do in this game. I mean, if it is just once .. oh-kay but doing it like a habbit is dishonorable and IMO these players have no right to participate in activities that come even with the tiniest of risk ... so Elite: Dangerous as a whole. Please, this game is called Elite: "Dangerous" for a reason. People want to gain the high profit but that is tied to high risk. Combat Logging enables to gain high profit but without the risk part.

It is punishable as stated by FD and I will do everything to get rid of every combat logger I face in open regardless of PvE or PvP. Every fight I am recording and I will uplaod every now and then some evidence to provide Frontier with footage so they can take appropiate actions. Plus these videos are public so everyone can see which players should be avoided in open since it is not worth wasting a single multicannon bullet on them.
Heck, I even have a database where I write down every combat logger with additional information, fully smartphone compatible and I can quickly scan a player in open to check wheather this is a logger or not.


TL;DR: Combat logging, regardless of PvE or PvP is a shame and people who do that repetetive should be banned from the game. Thankfully FD is in the same opinion and I do my very best to report every single combat logger with evidence. Once is oh-kay, everyone can have bad days or a DC at the worst point possible but doing it repetetive is a reason enough to get rid of the abuser and seperate them from other players.

 

[EUS]

no idea how you people would have coped with the games we had back in the 80's

Quarter on a string.

 

[Bostlabs]

if you cant afford to fly the ship. don't buy it unless you are willing to restart in a sidewinder if all goes wrong.

no idea how you people would have coped with the games we had back in the 80's

Save points. You didn't leave the station without saving your game. I don't recall insurance back in the first Elite.

 

[Miko]

Pretty unforgiving atmosphere here. I have to accept that I did enquire and asked for feedback. But back in the "Frontier" day there's no way I'd have played for months or years and started a new save had my ship got blown up, especially when the glitches were responsible more than the enemy combatants.

Like I said, I appreciate the reason for the insurance and I accept it. But this is a game and solo mode should really be offline and allow players who work hard in their personal lives to enjoy a game without losing the countless hours of effort put in should misfortune strike them. It's especially punishing if people who do so risk losing their accounts. Why such control over solo players? They're solo and not bothering any real person.

I also mentioned disconnecting once to avoid losing everything due to a NPC not using its breaks!

I don't at all agree with it if people did this on Open Play. So don't confuse the two.

 

[shambles1980]

the problem is you cam and asked our opinion on cheating.
i don't know why you are surprised the atmosphere is rather unforgiving.

 

[bamber]

Save points. You didn't leave the station without saving your game. I don't recall insurance back in the first Elite.

who needs insurance when you have Energy Bombs