Questions about the BGS

[ilo]

Hi all, let me introduce the situation first before asking the specifics..

We arrived to a system (from now on 'the system') with two stations and 5 factions (number not really that important).
- Faction A with 62% of influence controls the big station (station 1).
- Faction B with 12% of influence controls the second station (station 2) in far with faction C.
- Faction C with around 12% (can't remember) was in war with faction B.
- Faction D in a boom with 10% - just hanging around-
- Faction E (my interest in here) with 4% and a lockdown.

After a few days doing our bests for Faction E, while trying to detriment Faction A we are now in the current situation (ignoring the other factions):
- Faction A is in 32% going down, with pending states: boom, civil unrest - no current state.
- Faction E is in 27% going up, with boom state.

The last day we kept pushing down Faction A and up Faction E, so we expect to match the influence levels in the next tick.

End of situation, now the questions.

I'm trying to prepare for what will happen next, but I honestly have no idea what is it.
- Will there be war? if two factions get into the same influence % or faction E surpases faction A..
- is election only for when 'pacifically' a faction gets 61% of influence? or can be triggered by faction A being in a different state?
- when these pending status will enter into play? I was hopping the civil unrest to come before, but seems to be just sitting there.

I have gone through the guide on BGS and minor factions but I don't seem to find the key triggers for one end or the other, and this is my first attempt to flip a system.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Sapyx]

Yes, factions A and D are approaching "war".

It's my understanding that "elections" only happen if both of the rival factions are Democratic. Any other combination of government types will lead to "war", or "civil war" if both factions are native to that system.

If "your interest" is faction E, why are you trying to push up faction D?

 

[ilo]

Yes, factions A and D are approaching "war".
If "your interest" is faction E, why are you trying to push up faction D?

Typo, I fixed it. Thanks for the answer, it is time to go to war then.. one of them is unfettered, so unlikely they will go to elections.

Thanks!

 

[Jmanis]

First up, a quick one on Wars, Civil Wars and Elections (Conflict States)
- Wars happen when the factions involved are from a foreign system (i.e they've come into the current system via expansion).
- Civil Wars happen when the factions are both domestic factions, but from different major factions (So, if Faction A were Imperial and Faction B were Independent)
- Elections happen when they're from the same major faction, and are both domestic (I think).

Equalizing influence levels will trigger a conflict state with the other faction. However, I've not heard of a case to date where someone has won control of a system via any conflict other than by getting their influence up to (60%? 70%? I forget the specific trigger level). So if you're trying to get control of the system (by winning a conflict with Faction A) I recommend your supported faction's influence up to the trigger point (i.e 60/70%, whichever it is).

This thread can provide more detail: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=193064

 

[ilo]

the distinction between these three is what I was asking for. TThe pending question now I'm asking is how far I'm from triggering any of the pending states that would help flipping it.

I already read kerbibator's thread, but I couldn't find the answers.

thanks!

 

[ilo]

adding from kerman's guide:

Stations/Outposts – Factions can capture stations and outposts in a system. This is done through civil war, war, or election, which is triggered by having your factions influence over 60% or equalizing influence values with your target. The victor claims the largest outpost/station of their opponent.

I'm confused by the OR clause.

 

[Jmanis]

adding from kerbinator's guide:

Stations/Outposts – Factions can capture stations and outposts in a system. This is done through civil war, war, or election, which is triggered by having your factions influence over 60% or equalizing influence values with your target. The victor claims the largest outpost/station of their opponent.

I'm confused by the OR clause.

You can trigger a confict to win stations off an opposing faction by equalizing or getting over 60%,, that much is true.

*However*, each system has a "control station", usually the largest, owned by the faction which has control over the entire system. To take control of the system, you need to win that station via conflict, and I'm yet to hear of that done by just equalizing, only through getting 60% influence.

Happy to be corrected there by anyone who's recently won a system just by equalizing.

 

[ilo]

In that case, because it is a local faction controlling and a foreign faction catching up influence, what is expected to happen after the conflict (if we dont get the 61%), nothing?

 

[toto66]

- Will there be war? if two factions get into the same influence % or faction E surpases faction A..

War or election.

- is election only for when 'pacifically' a faction gets 61% of influence? or can be triggered by faction A being in a different state?

No. Election is just a conflict. Election or war depends on government of factions in conflict. If both have excatly same governments(except anarchy), they resolve conflict via elections. If one faction A is cooperative or democracy or communism and E is also cooperative or democracy or communism, then there will be elections too. Feudal and dictatorships will also enter elections with feudal\dictatorship governments(and maybe patronage). Anarchies dislike elections, they always fight in war\civil war.

In that case, because it is a local faction controlling and a foreign faction catching up influence, what is expected to happen after the conflict (if we dont get the 61%), nothing?

Winner will get the most valuable asset from loser.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

My knowledge on it :

- Factions seem to trigger their Conflict (Election, War or Civil War) when they end up within what seems to be ~1% of Influence, qualifying for the Influence Match to Trigger

- how the Conflict is resolved depends on these major Factors :
1) Factions of similar structure will enter an Election
-> a Democracy for example will enter Election vs. the following other Factions : Democracy, Confederation, Theocracy, Broker, Communism (I assume Political would also be a Candidate for an Election)
-> some pairings are rather surprising or might actually be a Bug, i.e. I've seen a Dictatorship actually seem to hold Election vs. another Dictatorship

2) Civil War occurs when two Factions of different Structure native to that System enter their Conflict

3) War occurs when two Factions of different Structure enter their Conflict and one of them isn't native to that System, i.e. expanded from another System into it

There's two Windows of opportunity to trigger Conflict over System and Primary Asset control :
a) Match Influence to start the Countdown -> Pending State War/Civil War/Election -> this condition is locked and will start after the Countdown, no matter what
b) Overtake controlling Faction and achieve >70% Influence... this often seems a tad shaky and I've seen occasions where the Conflict wasn't triggered until >80% Influence was achieved

Option a) is preferred, as you're working on the needed Influence Delta most likely somewhere in the 30-40% Influence Region, meaning all activities have full effect.
Option b) can present additional difficultes, as you need to achieve the same Influence Delta while your Faction might already have >70% or even >80%, especially an Election as an Expanded Faction can then require tons of work.
(AFAIK there's Influence thresholds, which work as limiters... for all I know, upto 50% Influence all activities have full effect for the Faction - but in steps of >50/>60/>70/>80/>90, if would seem the Influence effect is cut in half for each 10% step progessively... based only on Observation but to me it seems the case)

 

[smiths121]

Hi All,

A little more info - although it is still a bit hazy for me!

War happens when one of the factions is from another system. Sooner or later Wars are replaced by Civil Wars as the faction goes native. I think owning a station does this - not entirely sure. When Player factions are injected into the game owning a station - they generate civil wars as opposed to wars - so thats my theory.

Election happens when both the factions are native and democratic. Not sure about Empire verses Federation, but in Anlave December/January PAFE (Federation Democracy) generated Elections against Contrail (Independent Deomcracy). However Anlave Energy (Federation Corporate) generated Civil War against Contrail. Certainly if one is Indpendent, the major faction allegiance does seem to be a factor in producing a civil war over an Election.

Civil War pretty much happens in all other situations not covered by War or election.

I'm guessing if one is Unfettered - it will turn violent and Civil War.

Simon

First up, a quick one on Wars, Civil Wars and Elections (Conflict States)
- Wars happen when the factions involved are from a foreign system (i.e they've come into the current system via expansion).
- Civil Wars happen when the factions are both domestic factions, but from different major factions (So, if Faction A were Imperial and Faction B were Independent)
- Elections happen when they're from the same major faction, and are both domestic (I think).

Equalizing influence levels will trigger a conflict state with the other faction. However, I've not heard of a case to date where someone has won control of a system via any conflict other than by getting their influence up to (60%? 70%? I forget the specific trigger level). So if you're trying to get control of the system (by winning a conflict with Faction A) I recommend your supported faction's influence up to the trigger point (i.e 60/70%, whichever it is).

This thread can provide more detail: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=193064

 

[ilo]

awesome, thank you all, will confirm what happens and what is the outcome at the end.

 

[ilo]

After the tick I'm a bit confused..

- Faction A has 24% influence (keeps holding the station), pending states are Boom, civil unrest and lockdown (all going up).
- Faction B has 21% influence, holds the 2nd station, current state Bust, pending states boom, civil war, lockdown.
- Faction C has 6% influence, current state Boom, pending state civil war.
- Faction D has 15% influence, current state Boom.
- Faction E has 26% influence, current state Boom.
(residual % is 1% in other minor factions that have been non influential since the beginning).

So, this is it. Factions B and C had a war, they are now going through that 'pending' civil war status. Faction E surpassed Faction A by 2%, no changes in the states, no war. Should there be a cool-down for any of these two factions it will be visible in pending states, but in this case there is no any.

What am I getting wrong?

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Just push Faction A a little to match closer with Faction E. 2% is outside the trigger window.

If the System has plenty of activity for various Factions, this often isn't easy to achieve (sometimes feels like "chase the rabbit").
Seeing trends like Civil Unrest or Lockdown - I guarantee you you're not the only one intensively (!) working in this System.

For tiny (~50k) Population Systems having no active Status, give Faction A an input worth ~750k Credits for ~1% Influence.
For small (~100-200k) Population Systems having no active Status, give Faction A an input worth ~1.3M Credits for ~1% Influence.
That's pretty much the best you can do, unless you have detailed and reliable Faction records allowing you to extrapolate their expected Influence input per day - and adjust your own Input to match whatever your forcast requires.

 

[ilo]

Thanks FalconFly, but..

I'm pushing faction E, which I managed to bring up to 26% from the grounds, fighting against faction A, that was 61% at the beginning and lowered it to 24%. Faction E has already catch up faction A and surpassed it.

There is people around, but current % are the valid numbers. I'm not discussing effort, just want to know why they are not fighting each other hehe.. Problem with faction E (the one I'm supporting) is that it doesn't own any station/outpost, all I can do is complete missions for them. Do I really need to make the percentages match exactly within the 1%? I thought this is a threshold value and anything on top of that would trigger the conflict.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

You overtook them, that's what happened. And it's fairly easy to happen. Call it an "overshoot" if you wish.

I do believe the match needs to be achieved, and it seems it needs to happen either whenever the Server "looks" for it (whenever or how often that is remains unknown to me) or when the Influence Update is applied around 1100-1130GMT.
For all I know, War/Civil War is a status that takes priority over most other Status possibilities. Unsure though about Civil Unrest and Lockdown, maybe one of these is now going into effect and had its trigger hit.
If that's the case, then your War will have to wait until the status about to go active has fully resolved. It's a worst-case scenario, so to speak.

 

[ilo]

Ok, thanks for the clarification.. "overshoot" seems an appropriate term. Considering the two options available:
- magic trick and guess the % of the other faction tomorrow + the amount of missions work required to match this % number on the faction I support..
- get 70% 80% influence to completely overtake the system.
what I can do is go to Wilkes Orbital and deliver medicines or look for some pvp.. My chances of getting any of these two correctly are really low.

Jezz.. I didn't know it was so.. random hehe

 

[Deleted member 38366]

If I was given the complex scenario you're operating in right now... hmm... I'd go Bounty Hunting (which decreases Civil Unrest/Lockdown Trends) anywhere within the jurisdiction of Faction A and hand them in within that specific System.

How much Bounty depends on Population, but 1-2M Cr for the Faction A should be appropriate.
Then, it's another day of "Wait & See if it worked", you get to take your best shot at it every 24hrs

It takes alot of experience, coupled with empiric Data collected within the System to make a sound prediction... And even then - it's just that. A prediction based on "best available" Information and Analysis, whatever that's worth.

 

[ilo]

ok, helping faction A so faction E can get into a war and win the station.. omg.. sounds so bad hehe

Thank you, FalconFly, learned a lot today.