Questions regarding upgrading CPU

[VR andysonofbob]

Hi

I would be really grateful for some comments here

I currently have a GTX970 SC and my CPU is an i52500k OCed to 4.4GHz.
I have just bought the GPU but my CPU is on the edge of its life (I have even had to disable the overheating warning in the BIOS!).

I notice that ED in the DK2 (1.5) is super smooth but I get little head-tracking judders on planet surfaces and very very mild ones in the larger stations. Presumably at these points my FPS is dropping below the threshold required for DK.

My wife would not be happy with me getting another GPU but I could probably talk her into CPU MB etc because it is getting old.

Question (only concerned with ED:H in VR):

Would I see sufficient performance increase, with DK2, in ED:H to reduce or better the judders when upgrading from:
i5 2500K @ 4.4GHz
to:
i5 4690K @ 4.20GHz (slightly slower clock speed)

Thanks!

edit
I have activated variable VSync (or whatever it is called) in the NVidia control panel but that is it. Everything on Ultra except that supersampling(?) menu setting which is at 1.0.

 

[Likiv]

Change your wife

 

[VR andysonofbob]

Change your wife

Ha!

But no, my wife is awesome!

 

[ghcannon]

Hello

"... but my CPU is on the edge of its life"
- With all due respects you cannot know that unles you have performed some complicated chemical analysis.

"(I have even had to disable the overheating warning in the BIOS!)."
- Well done .. I mean who needs overheating warnings anyway.

"Would I see sufficient performance increase, with DK2, in ED:H to reduce or better the judders when upgrading from: ... "
- No, none at all. The slower clock speed will outweigh the bonus in cache speed.

The smart thing to do now:
Get your CPU cleaned up; Properly apply high quality thermal compount; Properly mount a sufficient new cooler. Open beer from fridge.

 

[Spam]

What ghannon said. Clean that CPU up, or invest in a better cooler.

Also, the min specs for ED Horizons in VR require a 980....

Put up with the old frame drop now and then and see what happens as the tech and optimization increases. The 970 is the recommended minimum card for the CV1.

 

[xondk]

Hi

I would be really grateful for some comments here

I currently have a GTX970 SC and my CPU is an i52500k OCed to 4.4GHz.
I have just bought the GPU but my CPU is on the edge of its life (I have even had to disable the overheating warning in the BIOS!).

I notice that ED in the DK2 (1.5) is super smooth but I get little head-tracking judders on planet surfaces and very very mild ones in the larger stations. Presumably at these points my FPS is dropping below the threshold required for DK.

My wife would not be happy with me getting another GPU but I could probably talk her into CPU MB etc because it is getting old.

Question (only concerned with ED:H in VR):

Would I see sufficient performance increase, with DK2, in ED:H to reduce or better the judders when upgrading from:
i5 2500K @ 4.4GHz
to:
i5 4690K @ 4.20GHz (slightly slower clock speed)

Thanks!

edit
I have activated variable VSync (or whatever it is called) in the NVidia control panel but that is it. Everything on Ultra except that supersampling(?) menu setting which is at 1.0.

What temperatures are you running at under load?

 

[VR andysonofbob]

Thanks for the replies!

4 cores at nearly 100'C I haven't thought about refitting the CPU and heatsink/fan. Thermal compound isn't something I have handy atm though...

Genuine question: Why do people bother upgrading if they are in a similar situation as me?

 

[ghcannon]

Not sure what you mean by "people like you".
Normal people that do any kind of OC care to take interest in the fact that the maximum T(j) for your CPU is 20C lower than your operating temperature.

I'm genuinely worried you may not be able to pull apart the CPU and heatisink apart. Your CPU may indeed have a severly shortened lifespan.

Have you been running a 4.4Ghz OC with a box cooler?

 

[Spam]

100C is rather warm sir.
I wouldn't crack the CPU/Heatsink seal if you don't have fresh compound available. Definitely get in there and make sure you're not clogged up with dust.
Or back the OC down a touch.
That temp would get my aft sphincter twitching frantically.

 

[xondk]

Thanks for the replies!

4 cores at nearly 100'C I haven't thought about refitting the CPU and heatsink/fan. Thermal compound isn't something I have handy atm though...

Genuine question: Why do people bother upgrading if they are in a similar situation as me?

Well yes, your computer is running, way....way way too hot then, and its thermal throttling to avoid not killing itself.

If Possible reseat CPU and cooler properly ASAP 100C is at the component limit, older cpu's run hotter, but not this hot, should not get above 70C generally, make sure you have a proper cleaning kit to clean and new thermal paste to apply.

If you can't reseat CPU, or do not have the stuff for it, disable overclocking you are killing your CPU running it at that temperature, and there's really no performance wise difference on that specific CPU that you even need to overclock it to that much. 3.3 stock is _PLENTY_ especially for Elite, my even older i7-950 is running at stock 3.07ghz, with no overclocking, because it simply isn't needed with the 970 gtx graphic card I have it can run most everything to the limit of the GPU, not the gpu, only a bare few poorly optimized games with make the cpu bottleneck.

 

[Soda Popinski]

Water cooling is going to be cheaper than a new CPU. $60 for a single fan solution. Get a tube for Arctic Silver thermal compound while you're at it.

 

[xondk]

Water cooling is going to be cheaper than a new CPU. $60 for a single fan solution. Get a tube for Arctic Silver thermal compound while you're at it.

To be fair, phase cooling is getting to a point where it might become quite viable from what I understand and it has a lot of years of experience behind it from amongst other things fridges and similar, and is very very effective, but for now I think he should just undo overclocking so CPU doesn't die.

 

[VR andysonofbob]

Thanks for the replies. (And concerned PMs!)

I feel like I have just been told off!
Soz

TBH, the setup has been fine for over 3 years. It beeped at me about a month or two ago. I must have knocked it when carting it about or changing something on the MB.

I have got some compound and a cloth to apply it, from the IT guys at work. Time to give it some TLC.

Wish me luck!

p.s.
It's safe to lick the CPU, but only when the power is off, right?
JKing! I know it's only when the power is off.

 

[xondk]

Thanks for the replies. (And concerned PMs!)

I feel like I have just been told off!
Soz

TBH, the setup has been fine for over 3 years. It beeped at me about a month or two ago. I must have knocked it when carting it about or changing something on the MB.

I have got some compound and a cloth to apply it, from the IT guys at work. Time to give it some TLC.

Wish me luck!

p.s.
It's safe to lick the CPU, but only when the power is off, right?
JKing! I know it's only when the power is off.

Look up a few videos on application with phone or such to guide proper cleaning and such a god amount of videos out there.

Well a car can also redline for quite a while before it gives out, same principle really and it is a k model so it is a better bin, but yeah, running it warm and hard will eventually cause issues, issues you can remove by disabling overclocking that really isn't providing that much benefit anyway.

As for licking it, its 100C, give it...10 min or so, depending on size of your cooler after power is off, because those 100C need to dissipate before you do anything, or you are just going to burn yourself.

 

[Bakkster]

"Would I see sufficient performance increase, with DK2, in ED:H to reduce or better the judders when upgrading from: ... "
- No, none at all. The slower clock speed will outweigh the bonus in cache speed.

No no no no no. This is not how CPUs work at all, not for at least a decade. Look at benchmarks, and the 4690K would be a substantial increase in performance.

Why? Because the 4690K is a 22nm Devil's Canyon chip, and the 2500K is a 32nm Sandy Bridge. One lithography size smaller (smaller is better) and two generations of architecture better. The architecture is why it's a better chip despite a slower clock speed (and why we're not still using Pentium 4 CPUs at >4GHz). The short version is that Devil's Canyon can do more work per clock cycle than Sandy Bridge, it can do 25% more math and twice as many branch statements (among many other improvements).

So yes, the 4690K (or even the 4690, which I have) would be a substantial upgrade, especially since it's 8W lower power (before OC). The important thing really is to not overheat the CPU, and the OC may have permanently damaged it (or it's just trying to be too aggressive to keep up with being 5 years old). It should meet the Elite minimum requirements just fine, not require an OC, and run cooler.

 

[VR andysonofbob]

UPDATE

Happy ending!

Turned out the cooler's base had cracked. Cracked? It was totally shattered. Just bought a £30 cooling unit from Maplins and she is idling at 38 - 45. A little more healthy!

Back on topic [Serious huge thanks for the help though! ]

Considering only Elite Dangerous: Horizons, using DK2 NOT CK1.
Would I see sufficient performance increase to reduce or remove the head-tracking lag-like judders I see when turning my head on a planet's surface or in a large station when upgrading from:
i5 2500K @ 4.4GHz
to:
i5 4690K @ 4.20GHz (slightly slower clock speed)

Thanks!

Seriously - I really appreciate the wake up call!

 

[ghcannon]

Mr. Bakkster would have you believe that there's a point in upgading in your situation, however the whole internet seems to disagree with him.

In fact, people would go for a 2600k from a 4690 since the former has HT.

@Bakkster - I understand well what IPC is and how architectures matter - I write programs for a living. Your example with Pentium was correct, though extreme and in no way complements OP's choice.

But sure .. if you want to save the titanic 8W TDP and get 5-10% performance boost - by all means waste your money.

Edit : @OP - To wrap up: you'll barely see any improvement at all from upgrading. The fact that ED is a heavily threaded game means you'll no longer have the benefits of hyper threading that 2600k has.

 

[SLeeC]

ED is VECTOR graphics anyway, there SHOULDNT be a bottleneck anywhere!

10 Do maths and screen draw
20 X=0
30 If x<1000000000000 then x=x+1:goto 30
40 goto 10

 

[Bakkster]

@andysonofbob

It's hard to tell if your judders are caused by the CPU, or because you're using the v1.5 runtime. I think it's likely that it's the runtime. I certainly wouldn't upgrade hardware until you've ruled it out (probably by watching CPU utilization graphs and trying the v1.8 runtime, for starters).

Mr. Bakkster would have you believe that there's a point in upgading in your situation, however the whole internet seems to disagree with him.

Obviously the calculus changes a lot, now that the OP knows the issue, has solved it, and continues to run OC'd. Your suggestion to clean up the cooling was the correct first attempt, and fortunately it solved his issue.

As an upgrade, no it's probably not worth it. If the original CPU was fried, though... then I'd definitely not replace it with another 2500K

In fact, people would go for a 2600k from a 4690 since the former has HT.

Not critical for VR gaming, though. You might actually be better off without it, depending on the game, if you're performing less work on that time-critical core without another thread trying to sneak in and stealing cycles. I don't think it has been fully benchmarked which is better for VR in general, or Elite in particular.

If you're upping the budget for an i7-2600K, why not go with an i7-4770K and get the best of both worlds?

@Bakkster - I understand well what IPC is and how architectures matter - I write programs for a living. Your example with Pentium was correct, though extreme and in no way complements OP's choice.

As a computer engineer who writes software for a living, I was confused when you justified the 2500K merely because "The slower clock speed will outweigh the bonus in cache speed." That didn't seem right at all, especially when every benchmark shows the 2500K as being slower both with single- and multi-threaded work. At the least, it's a dangerous impression to give to people ("More GHz is better"), and without providing a benchmark to back it up it absolutely deserved to be challenged.

 

[xondk]

ED is VECTOR graphics anyway, there SHOULDNT be a bottleneck anywhere!

10 Do maths and screen draw
20 X=0
30 If x<1000000000000 then x=x+1:goto 30
40 goto 10

A lot of people don't seem to realize this because everyone thinks vector drawing is just simple graphics like old style elite, the advantage elite has over many other games because of this though is performance, it performs great, disadvantage is draw calls and other math stuff which it hits some limits in, so on high end computers it can get limited by certain things and not take advantage of cpu and gpu to the fullest, but yeah that's a better thing then other games of late if you ask me. And one of the reasons it looks as great as it does.