Fiction Questions regarding writing official fiction.

[KillikHiveMind]

I recently started writing a novel sized project and it takes place in the Elite universe. Where do I go to see about pitching it to be possibly an official fiction. Very little progress is made atm but before I get too invested I would like to clear it or at least run the idea. I have a very tightly planned plot and can give a synopsis if needed but Im new to the whole process but figured why not give it a shot.

If anyone here can assist me or at least point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it.

(Lol this has turned into a writing help thread, thats a snowball effect I didn't expect.)

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

The problem is that you have to apply for an official licence in order to write a proper novel.

You put in a licence application, The application form is somewhere on their site but I can't remember where.

Word of warning through. There have been a *lot* of applications for fiction after the initial kickstarter. I don't think any succeeded. I was always under the impression that Frontier Contacted Drew for the lastest book (But I may be mistaken).

 

[drew]

I was always under the impression that Frontier Contacted Drew for the lastest book (But I may be mistaken).

This is certainly true, they spoke to me on a number of occasions in early 2016. The Premonition book was quite a specific request (i.e. tell the story of the game, rather than write something completely freeform in the ED universe)

I got the impression, though it may not be completely accurate, that support for fiction was rather overstretched in the Kickstarter phase of Elite Dangerous supporting so many projects. Other than the two RPGs which are now rolling out, I believe mine is the only subsequent/sequel novel thus far. Thus it may be that there is now a 'bit of queue' of applications.

We'll have to see what Fdev decides to do next.

Cheers,

Drew.

 

[DrKoobie]

I am very interested in this as well. I'd love to work on an Elite book. I've been playing Oolite these days, but am about to purchase a copy of the game for PS4 along with a HOTAS, my plan, if you can call it that, is to basically roleplay and take notes, then write these little 1-2k word chapters in the Lore / Roleplay subforum along with some screenshots and hope that Frontier would approach me if there's any interest.

I'm also looking forward to reading Drew's Reclamation and possibly the Oolite novels as well. I love space games, and I'm not a complete Jameson, but I'm not nearly as familiar with the universe as most of the hardcore fans.

But if anyone knows if there's any sort of an "official" way to approach Frontier (eg., that form you'd mentioned, or a writing sample, or whatnot), I'd appreciate if you let me know.

I'm a professional writer (all that means is that I've no real job, really, lol) by trade, so I'll have fun either way.

Peace.

 

[Sepulcher Geist]

I myself felt a strong desire to write fiction in the Elite universe, an interest I discovered as I was tumbling into space madness during my little jaunt over to Beagle point. I was later shocked to learn the kickstarter had a writer's pack I'd missed out on, and further shocked to learn Frontier once had an application for the rights as well. Seems crazy to me, but gave me hope.

However, I'm a traditionally published author, so I know the industry a tad. Availability to apply like that would get swarmed with applications, and likely overwhelm and quickly discourage Frontier. Countless people want to write, and a rich universe like elite provides a wonderful opportunity to do so.

Sure enough, it appears that application process has vanished for now. Frontier has burned the bridges, so to speak. Unsure how one could approach the licensing today, but however it would be done would have to include some sort of requirement/filtering process prior to personal vetting. Numbers have to be culled. Like the old saying goes: not everyone gets to be an astronaut when they grow up.

That being said, whatever hope one would have to writing tie-in fiction would come from that uniqueness of self. Be honest and work hard on your writing. Learn the industry and what it means to truly write, revise, and market a work. Eventually those truest to the dream swim while the rest sink, and someday an opportunity will come your way, in Elite or elsewhere.

Never shy away from trying. The worst anyone can say is no. I myself will write and revise my Elite novel for the practice of it. And in case an opportunity does arise, I'll be ready with a full synopsis, chapter summary, et cetera. Perhaps my publisher may want to reach out for me, who knows. Point is: be more prepared than most and you'll have a better chance than most!

Good luck!

 

[DrKoobie]

Sepulcher Geist, I'd finished Reclamation and at the end I saw that there are two publishers that had put out Elite: Dangerous books in the past, Fanastic Book Publishing and ... Gollancz!

I'm not sure if they (Gollancz) still have the rights, but if you're an established author, I'm sure approaching Frontier wouldn't hurt. If you do -- please let me know how it goes.

I do have to say I was a little bit put off by "paying cash for a license" thing that was going on at the time of the Kickstarter apparently because the number 1 rule is "money flows to the author" (or not at all), but on the other hand I'm happy it created a wider readership / opportunities for undoubtedly talented authors like Drew and the others.

That said, nothing is preventing you (or me) from writing a novel and then releasing it for free as unofficial fan fiction. As far as I understand, Frontier are cool with that sort of thing, and why wouldn't they be?

After all, we're all here for the love of it. [cool]

Right on, CMDR.

P.S. Solid advice; my advice is a quote from Shia LeBeouf. It goes something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJscrxxl_Bg

 

[Sepulcher Geist]

Releasing an unofficial fan fiction is all fun and good, but my desire is specifically to release official fiction. I guess you could say: I want to experience of writing Tie-In Fiction.
Approaching the situation is difficult for me, however, since there are a number of ways to do so each with their pros and cons. I can't make up my mind.

First issue: Do I write and revise the novel first before anyone is approached? That's a generally good rule of thumb when it comes to getting something published, but should I fail I would be left with a novel I can't release unless I do so as fan fiction (which defeats the purpose in my opinion). I could potentially transform it into my own Science Fiction story if that happens, which would be alright, but also not my intention. Furthermore, when writing tie-in fiction I'd imagine I'd have a better shot if I was more in-line with what Frontier wanted. Perhaps they want or need certain stories, which I might have had a shot at writing for them had I not written my own. Then again, approaching my own publisher or a new one (Gollancz) wouldn't be very successful without having the book written first.

That brings me to my second Issue: Do I approach them directly or via a Publisher? (Note I didn't say agent. I said publisher. But that's another topic for another time.) Going through a publisher may give me better chances getting a response from Frontier, and establish clear royalties and money flow rather quickly. Then I'd work with my publisher to get it released, and then I'd market the ever-loving-tar out of it. It'd definitely be a for-profit book, which means all those royalties and money flows would have to get all tied up together and could be a contract headache. Approaching on my own I may be able to keep it simpler, but I'd certainly have to pay for the rights on my own and am more likely to be ignored by Frontier.

Which brings me to the third question: Do I want this book to be for profit, or for free? If it's for profit, I'm sure I'd have to pay some multi-thousand dollar licence fee. (Which I would probably do.) But my goals aren't to make tons of money, but to write tie-in-fiction and hopefully boost my own brand as an author doing so. Which means I'd be willing to write and release an e-novel novel for zero cost to readers (as long as it's official tie-in-fiction). Perhaps in that case Frontier would be willing to give me official licence without that cost, for the purposes of releasing a free novel and boosting both our brands. They may like the idea, or brush it off entirely.

Fourth Issue: Which publisher? Should I elect to attempt getting rights through a publisher, do I use my own established publisher or a new one? I could attempt contacting one that may already have the rights to Elite Dangerous, then once I fail (generally by get no response for months) I could attempt my primary publisher, who would then have to get the rights themselves (which they may not like the thought of doing).

Whew. Things I need to figure out. Crazy things. It's what has me in a complete stall at the moment. But that's fine. I'm finishing the final revisions on my next novel I'm releasing anyway.
But yeah, that's where my priorities are. Releasing Tie-In Fiction specifically. And I think it'd be beyond cool to see systems in the game changed to match it, perhaps in-game events involving the characters, et cetera.

 

[madbilly]

Releasing an unofficial fan fiction is all fun and good, but my desire is specifically to release official fiction. I guess you could say: I want to experience of writing Tie-In Fiction.
Approaching the situation is difficult for me, however, since there are a number of ways to do so each with their pros and cons. I can't make up my mind.

First issue: Do I write and revise the novel first before anyone is approached? That's a generally good rule of thumb when it comes to getting something published, but should I fail I would be left with a novel I can't release unless I do so as fan fiction (which defeats the purpose in my opinion). I could potentially transform it into my own Science Fiction story if that happens, which would be alright, but also not my intention. Furthermore, when writing tie-in fiction I'd imagine I'd have a better shot if I was more in-line with what Frontier wanted. Perhaps they want or need certain stories, which I might have had a shot at writing for them had I not written my own. Then again, approaching my own publisher or a new one (Gollancz) wouldn't be very successful without having the book written first.

That brings me to my second Issue: Do I approach them directly or via a Publisher? (Note I didn't say agent. I said publisher. But that's another topic for another time.) Going through a publisher may give me better chances getting a response from Frontier, and establish clear royalties and money flow rather quickly. Then I'd work with my publisher to get it released, and then I'd market the ever-loving-tar out of it. It'd definitely be a for-profit book, which means all those royalties and money flows would have to get all tied up together and could be a contract headache. Approaching on my own I may be able to keep it simpler, but I'd certainly have to pay for the rights on my own and am more likely to be ignored by Frontier.

Which brings me to the third question: Do I want this book to be for profit, or for free? If it's for profit, I'm sure I'd have to pay some multi-thousand dollar licence fee. (Which I would probably do.) But my goals aren't to make tons of money, but to write tie-in-fiction and hopefully boost my own brand as an author doing so. Which means I'd be willing to write and release an e-novel novel for zero cost to readers (as long as it's official tie-in-fiction). Perhaps in that case Frontier would be willing to give me official licence without that cost, for the purposes of releasing a free novel and boosting both our brands. They may like the idea, or brush it off entirely.

Fourth Issue: Which publisher? Should I elect to attempt getting rights through a publisher, do I use my own established publisher or a new one? I could attempt contacting one that may already have the rights to Elite Dangerous, then once I fail (generally by get no response for months) I could attempt my primary publisher, who would then have to get the rights themselves (which they may not like the thought of doing).

Whew. Things I need to figure out. Crazy things. It's what has me in a complete stall at the moment. But that's fine. I'm finishing the final revisions on my next novel I'm releasing anyway.
But yeah, that's where my priorities are. Releasing Tie-In Fiction specifically. And I think it'd be beyond cool to see systems in the game changed to match it, perhaps in-game events involving the characters, et cetera.

1, 2 and 4 I've got no idea about.

For 3, I'm pretty sure that none of the authors of the existing books made a "profit" in monetary terms, especially if you take into account the amount of time spent writing them. Apart from Gollancz they were all written by fans of the game and therefore profit secondary. Of course they all had to buy the licence and I think they all purchased the Kickstarter Writers' Packs by having their own kickstarters - except maybe T. James, but their alter ego can pop by and confirm for themselves

I don't know how many copies have been sold but the audience is quite niche - even though they're good sci-fi books (some are excellent stories and could stand shoulder-to-shoulder with other contemporary writers) they're not well known at all outside of the Elite community.

More recently the ED:RPG had it's own kickstarter. Their target funding was ~10-20x the amount that was required for the kickstarter writers packs, so in my opinion they have effectively pre-sold copies of their work and ensured profitability by setting the funding level sufficiently high that it will cover their costs without them having to worry about continuing sales.

So the answer to 3 is that it is up to you. I think it's very unlikely you'll make a profit anyway, but you may want people to pay for it just to make sure that you get a little bit back to try and cover your monetary expenses (because there will be some).

Cheers

 

[drew]

Releasing an unofficial fan fiction is all fun and good, but my desire is specifically to release official fiction. I guess you could say: I want to experience of writing Tie-In Fiction.
Approaching the situation is difficult for me, however, since there are a number of ways to do so each with their pros and cons. I can't make up my mind.

First issue: Do I write and revise the novel first before anyone is approached? That's a generally good rule of thumb when it comes to getting something published, but should I fail I would be left with a novel I can't release unless I do so as fan fiction (which defeats the purpose in my opinion). I could potentially transform it into my own Science Fiction story if that happens, which would be alright, but also not my intention. Furthermore, when writing tie-in fiction I'd imagine I'd have a better shot if I was more in-line with what Frontier wanted. Perhaps they want or need certain stories, which I might have had a shot at writing for them had I not written my own. Then again, approaching my own publisher or a new one (Gollancz) wouldn't be very successful without having the book written first.

That brings me to my second Issue: Do I approach them directly or via a Publisher? (Note I didn't say agent. I said publisher. But that's another topic for another time.) Going through a publisher may give me better chances getting a response from Frontier, and establish clear royalties and money flow rather quickly. Then I'd work with my publisher to get it released, and then I'd market the ever-loving-tar out of it. It'd definitely be a for-profit book, which means all those royalties and money flows would have to get all tied up together and could be a contract headache. Approaching on my own I may be able to keep it simpler, but I'd certainly have to pay for the rights on my own and am more likely to be ignored by Frontier.

Which brings me to the third question: Do I want this book to be for profit, or for free? If it's for profit, I'm sure I'd have to pay some multi-thousand dollar licence fee. (Which I would probably do.) But my goals aren't to make tons of money, but to write tie-in-fiction and hopefully boost my own brand as an author doing so. Which means I'd be willing to write and release an e-novel novel for zero cost to readers (as long as it's official tie-in-fiction). Perhaps in that case Frontier would be willing to give me official licence without that cost, for the purposes of releasing a free novel and boosting both our brands. They may like the idea, or brush it off entirely.

Fourth Issue: Which publisher? Should I elect to attempt getting rights through a publisher, do I use my own established publisher or a new one? I could attempt contacting one that may already have the rights to Elite Dangerous, then once I fail (generally by get no response for months) I could attempt my primary publisher, who would then have to get the rights themselves (which they may not like the thought of doing).

Whew. Things I need to figure out. Crazy things. It's what has me in a complete stall at the moment. But that's fine. I'm finishing the final revisions on my next novel I'm releasing anyway.
But yeah, that's where my priorities are. Releasing Tie-In Fiction specifically. And I think it'd be beyond cool to see systems in the game changed to match it, perhaps in-game events involving the characters, et cetera.

If you'd like a chat about this from the perspective of someone who's been through it, contact me and we can take offline for a more candid discussion.

Cheers,

Drew.

 

[Shadowdancer]

The first question I would ask you is how much experience at writing you have. Unless it's quite a bit and you've done your own world-building before, then from a reader's perspective, you may want to do your own thing and "git gud" at managing and using your own worlds before jumping into somebody else's. If you don't, chances are you will end up with something that your target audience finds awkward and stilted.

If you are not a total Elite anorak, many of your potential readers will end up in a better position to find all the minor and major discrepancies between official lore (which IMAO is already a total mess in case of Elite), their headcanon, and your understanding. Every little misuse of terminology, stepping beside a timeline, getting a character's hair colour wrong, and other details, will stand out like a sore thumb. Depending on your setting, you may also be forced to do some heavy lifting on some of the more handwavy parts; there's a lot of narrative ugliness in the lack of artificial gravity alone, and you will need to skip around other problems a spacefaring civilisation on that standard of technology will face.

Anything on a "significant" scale would require you piecing together a robust reference guide that deals with the technology, characters, and history of your particular setting. And when you're "done" writing, you will need a good editor who is also familiar with that entire complex to fix it and write it again.

 

[Sepulcher Geist]

To Drew Wagar: Wow, thank you for the offer. I may just have to take you up on it: I'll take all the help I can to better understand tie-in fiction, and you'd be a great source of wisdom.

To Shadowdancer: You have fantastic points that are very helpful to the discussion. Keeping things in line with canon is, of course, a major concern pertaining to tie-in fiction. It's a good point that writing tie-in fiction as a first novel may not be ideal if you haven't been practicing world-building, and have a keen understanding of what canon is, its involvement, and its importance. Personally, piecing together a robust reference guide sounds not bothersome to me at all, but exciting. In fact, those steps are some of what makes writing tie-in fiction so alluring. Fortunately you get a good head-start by deep involvement in the game itself, as well the Elite Dangerous Wiki and other fan resource collections. That being said, such resources are far from fool-proof and one would have to step lightly and obey instinct. And by that I mean understanding themselves and their own ignorance. Should a scene drift into areas of the universe, the science, or the politics of Elite that you don't grasp confidently, it may be time to pile on more research (or do an artful dodge of the subject in general). Novels in new systems with entirely original characters would also avoid many potential pitfalls (like your example of getting someone's hair color wrong). But such fresh novels will still require the novelist to be familiar with, say, what a first FSD jump would feel like And details like that would require looking into lore and even the more popular novels to maintain some form of consistency.

Perhaps, us in the creative fiction side of things, could follow in your ideas and create a community-wide "official" reference guide. In fact, I may have seen one around here somewhere. . . If I did, I'd have to give it another look, and perhaps the community could expand upon it. In the industry, such a concept is usually referred to as "the series Bible." Many television shows, such as Battlestar Galactica, had one for their writers and guest writers, which I subsequently modeled my own novel series "bible" after.

 

[Susimetsa]

For 3, I'm pretty sure that none of the authors of the existing books made a "profit" in monetary terms, especially if you take into account the amount of time spent writing them.

If you account for the time spent writing something, there are very few authors on this planet who make actual profit. I think I read one account where a relatively famous author calculated that he got back 10 cents for an hour when he calculated his "hourly wage" for all the work he had done writing his novel. More often, successful authors complement their income with public appearances in shows etc.