Engineers Rail Guns - Which Special Effect Do You Prefer

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

I recently tried 2 rail guns on my FDL. I did both as G5 Lightweight (to lower power draw/consumption) and added the super penetrator special effect to both. While these were fun to play with, I really didn't notice much of a benefit from the super penetrator effect.

My questions are:

1. Which special effect do you choose, if any (feedback cascade, plasma slug, super penetrator)? How well do they work?
2. Are there any effects (e.g. super penetrator) that are bugged/nerfed/just plain don't "work as advertised"?
3. Which mod do you prefer (e.g. sturdy, lightweight, etc.) and why?

Thanks in advance.

 

[HeavyGroovez]

Rails were the first weapons i built an entire collection of.

All my rails are sturdy mount because they fix the biggest problem of rails - thermal load. You can spam em hard with sturdies.

As far as secondaries go i have 4 x C2 Super Penetrators, 4 x C2 Feedback Cascade, 2 x C1 Feedback Cascade.

I use cascades on pretty much everything to deal with SCBs and situationally will swap to super penetrators for my fast pursuit ships when im winged up and acting as the module blaster.

Super penetrators will damage all modules in their path but you dont get feedback on the random sub system damage you are inflicting on your enemy so it doesnt feel like they are doing anything above and beyond regular duty.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

Long range with secondary thermal reductions are the way to go. Feedback cascade is most useful but super pens are pretty scary top (if somewhat arcane in their actual function)

 

[UnhappyDev]

Feedback cascade is most useful but super pens are pretty scary too

They are if you can get the shield off. Some crafty CMDRs fly with reverb torpedoes and super penetrator rails for easier power plant targeting.

 

[Ozram]

Feedback and superpen, with lightweight mod.

 

[Gunnet]

I enjoy long range plasma slug rails (IHammers, to be precise). Dealing full damage out to several kilometres without having to worry (much) about ammo never gets old.

That's strictly a PvE setup of course. Although I've seen at least one video where Truesilver uses plasma slug rails, and Alexander the Grape just endorsed long range rails, so who knows (probably somebody, but not me ).

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

I enjoy long range plasma slug rails (IHammers, to be precise). Dealing full damage out to several kilometres without having to worry (much) about ammo never gets old.

That's strictly a PvE setup of course. Although I've seen at least one video where Truesilver uses plasma slug rails, and Alexander the Grape just endorsed long range rails, so who knows (probably somebody, but not me ).

How do Hammers stack up against standard rails? I'm pledged with ALD and could easily get some (just need to push up to rank 3). I haven't already because my module storage is full of excess Packhound launchers, a few Prismatic shields, and several Advanced Plasma Accelerators.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

I prefer longrange mod because no damage fall-off and therefor 3 times the damage than lightweight in addition with feedback cascade against SCB's.
I tryed the superpenetrator as well and i was not really happy with them 'cause i'm doing mostly PvE and they just don't get affected by malfunctions i feel

 

[Sylow]

How do Hammers stack up against standard rails? I'm pledged with ALD and could easily get some (just need to push up to rank 3). I haven't already because my module storage is full of excess Packhound launchers, a few Prismatic shields, and several Advanced Plasma Accelerators.

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The hammer is a sidegrade. To understand this:
- You fire a burst of three shots, so you have to be a bit longer on target to do full damage.
- If you manage to land all three shots, you deal a bit (i think it's 9%) more damage than a regular railgun.
- As the hammer comes with three times as much ammo (so it in the end has as many salvos as the railgun has shots), the ratio of damage per ammo is in the hammers favour.
- The hammer creates noticeably more heat than the regular railgun. The regular railgun does a good deal more damage per heat.
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So it very much depends on which ship and setup you fly and how heat sensitive it is, if hammers can be an advantage for you. In many cases you're better off with regular railguns. And last not least it's important to know: never put plasma slugs on the imperial hammer. As it fires three shots per burst, it also applies the plasma slugs fuel drain trice. I have a plasma slug hammer on my iCourier for test purposes, but not only do plasma slugs reduce the damage output by 30%, it also forced me to leave to refuel much sooner than i would've had to leave to restock ammo. So unless you for whatever reason fly a fuel tanker, don't combine imperial hammers with plasma slugs.
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[Truesilver]

I enjoy long range plasma slug rails (IHammers, to be precise). Dealing full damage out to several kilometres without having to worry (much) about ammo never gets old.

That's strictly a PvE setup of course. Although I've seen at least one video where Truesilver uses plasma slug rails, and Alexander the Grape just endorsed long range rails, so who knows (probably somebody, but not me ).

Ha ha - thank you for the reference but tbh plasma slug was just a PvP experiment of mine - one of the more crazed ones ... however, if I ever build a PvE ship it will most likely be an Anaconda with 6 x sturdy mount rails, thermal load reduction secondary, all plasma slug, permanent premium ammo to counter-act the damage reduction, and fully half of the ship just filled with fuel.

For PvP though, as Mr Grape said, long range cascade and super pen with thermal load secondary are devastating. The removal of the damage fall off for range and ability hence to take full advantage of the mini-gimballing at 2.5 km are together quite merciless.

 

[Stigbob]

As with a lot of things it's ship dependant, FDL sturdy with plasma slug for low heat and scoopable ammo. DBS/courier plasma slug lightweight.

 

[Gunnet]

How do Hammers stack up against standard rails? I'm pledged with ALD and could easily get some (just need to push up to rank 3). I haven't already because my module storage is full of excess Packhound launchers, a few Prismatic shields, and several Advanced Plasma Accelerators.

Sylow's post covers it. I mainly just use them over regular rails because I find them more satisfying. They also have a nice QoL feature in that they keep cycling if you hold the trigger down, which makes it much easier to stagger shots by splitting them onto separate fire buttons.

The thermal load and fuel use are both somewhat countered by the fact that I'm using them on a Cutter. With four pips to weapons I can fire two of them indefinitely without overheating, and 128 tonnes of fuel goes a long way.

Ha ha - thank you for the reference but tbh plasma slug was just a PvP experiment of mine - one of the more crazed ones ... however, if I ever build a PvE ship it will most likely be an Anaconda with 6 x sturdy mount rails, thermal load reduction secondary, all plasma slug, permanent premium ammo to counter-act the damage reduction, and fully half of the ship just filled with fuel.

For PvP though, as Mr Grape said, long range cascade and super pen with thermal load secondary are devastating. The removal of the damage fall off for range and ability hence to take full advantage of the mini-gimballing at 2.5 km are together quite merciless.

Thanks for the insight. Like I said, somebody was going to know

I've been resisting the urge to use premium ammo to counter the plasma slug damage reduction for quite a while. It's so tempting.

 

[Sylow]

The thermal load and fuel use are both somewhat countered by the fact that I'm using them on a Cutter. With four pips to weapons I can fire two of them indefinitely without overheating, and 128 tonnes of fuel goes a long way.

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Using rails on such a heavy ship? Hmm. I never tried that, i find my heavies to be way too sluggish to reliably hit with rails. Either i am not good enough, or i do something wrong.
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I've been resisting the urge to use premium ammo to counter the plasma slug damage reduction for quite a while. It's so tempting.

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I refuse to use the infinite upgraded ammo on plasma rails. It's somewhere in between "clever use of mechanics" and "unintended abuse of mechanics". So depending on the interpretation, it can be seen as an exploit. The mere possibility for it being seen as an exploit is reason enough for me to avoid it.
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[Limoncello Lizard]

Feedback and superpen, with lightweight mod.

I've gone the exact opposite. Same special effects, but on sturdy mounts. But my FAS is a hull tank, so it needs the extra integrity.

 

[Ozram]

I've gone the exact opposite. Same special effects, but on sturdy mounts. But my FAS is a hull tank, so it needs the extra integrity.

Yeah I totally understand that. It's that I use them as a pair of smalls on a Viper modded for speed with hatchbreakers and a small bit of cargo space (8 tonnes with four limpets still within weight/thrust optimum). My sole pirate ship. Behold (I probably share this screenshot too often):

Otherwise I'd go long range. Right now I have it at just the right weight to thrust ratio (until the tiny cargo hold is filled).
It catches T6s and Asps. The mediums are dumbfire superpen.

 

[Gunnet]

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Using rails on such a heavy ship? Hmm. I never tried that, i find my heavies to be way too sluggish to reliably hit with rails. Either i am not good enough, or i do something wrong.
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I didn't expect rails on a Cutter to be as good as they are either. At long range you really benefit from the ship being such a stable firing platform. I find them particularly useful for taking out the powerplants of fleeing ships now that NPC fighters like to run away when their shields drop. Starting fights from 5km+ away and using rails as they fly towards you works well too.

At closer range they're fine against medium and large ships. You can use them against small fighters in close if you really want to, usually by going full boost reverski. But anything small enough to be a pain tends to get absolutely mauled by your own NPC pilot in a beam SLF.

For what it's worth, I'd definitely credit starting to use rails with forcing me to improve my big ship handling. I'm much more diligent with diverting pips to engines and maintaining blue zone speed during manoeuvring than I used to be. Not that I'm claiming to be a good ED pilot by any stretch of the imagination.

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I refuse to use the infinite upgraded ammo on plasma rails. It's somewhere in between "clever use of mechanics" and "unintended abuse of mechanics". So depending on the interpretation, it can be seen as an exploit. The mere possibility for it being seen as an exploit is reason enough for me to avoid it.
.

Yeah, I'm pretty much the same. I would be astonished if anybody ever got punished for using it, but it still doesn't quite feel right to me. Although it's not something I'd be inclined to judge anybody else for doing.

I'm hoping that the 30% damage penalty might get toned down at some point. It seems a little over the top to me compared to most special effect downsides.

 

[Truesilver]

About the plasma slug + infinite premium ammo combo:

Although it will probably never apply to me, as I doubt I'll ever get around to making my PvE rail boat, I really don't think that this combo is anything like a bug or an exploit. Personally, I would use it and encourage others to use it without hesitation.

I don't personally agree with premium existing in the first place but so long as it is in game, in this particular example it just seems to me to be build intelligence. A plasma slug premium rail gun is still a far worse weapon than a regular rail gun with cascade or super pen anyway, and the ship has to carry loads of fuel. And stacked plasma slug rails are almost exponentially worse than stacked cascade / super pen rails.

Even with the premium making up some (not all) of the lost DPS you're basically accepting a compromised gun and a compromised ship in return for fewer trips between RES and station.

 

[Aashenfox]

I only carry 2 heat sinks because in my personal bubble hopper, I don't engage in combat unless provoked, so this is really a 'one hard fight per trip between stations' thing. But, yeh, if they dare to interdict me, I have a lot of fun in the DBX with Long Range Rails. I immediately silent run and boost away. They're still looking for me when I start sniping with the rails from 4k away, joust with the large beam as we fly by each other, heat sink and repeat.