Horizons Railguns- The math is waaaay off....

[Jaylem]

Aim: To determine the realistic effectiveness of Elites' beloved Railguns.

Hypothesis: We are being blind robbed by ammo costs and unneeded power-draw.

Materials:
-1-2 Railguns/ Ihammers
-Youtube railgun videos
-some Targets to slaughter

Method:

-Watch modern day Railgun vidoes, note the size and speed of rounds used.

-Slaughter some targets with elite railguns for the feel of it

-Do the math!!

Discussion:

So after killing your helpless victims you would have noticed that the current railgun projectile fires at close to lightspeed (it does emit light after all...) so a reasonable guess of 90-99% guess can be made. Modern day Railguns fire at around 2-3Km/s with rounds that appear to be about 500g (being generous here)

Shall we do the math?

lets compare Momentum of both the two projectiles to find the mass of the Elite Railgun slug. On the assumption the Momentum is simular or the same....

P(1)=P(2)

MxV = MxV

0.5x3000=Xx ((3x10^8)x0.9)

1500=Xx 2.7x10^8

1500/ 2.7x10^8 = X

X=0.000006kg

X=0.006 Grams (What the F....??!!)

No you didn't read it wrong! given the speed of the projectile the current projectiles are literally the size of a grain of sand. These rounds must be made of Painite to incur such a large rebuy cost! And no bloody wonder they need a charge up time. they have to be accelerated to lightspeed!!!!

Solution:

-Decrease projectile speed (although this may sound like a bad thing, there would be a very small charge up time required..not to mention major reductions in power and distributor draw!!) A speed of 3-5km/s sounds sufficient with 200-700g slugs. yes this would incur a leading angle at 3km+ but it would be very minor. turning the rail into a semi-skill based weapon.

-Keep current Damage and appearance as it is external factors that are being altered. perhaps a 2-5% increase in DAM for leading angle offset?

-Fire the original scientists!!!

-(optional) Payload for AX compound is always a possibility

- Change In-game railguns out and replace them with a MKII version (this version) In-game rails still remain but are now obsolete in comparison...

Conclusion:

Although currently fun, the current Railguns are unrealistic and inefficient in comparison to modern rails. Not only do these modern rails pose as a newer alterntave, but also make for easier to use and more lethal weapons than the previous model.


CMDR Jaylem

 

[Ozram]

Aim: To determine the realistic effectiveness of Elites' beloved Railguns.

Hypothesis: We are being blind robbed by ammo costs and unneeded power-draw.

Materials:
-1-2 Railguns/ Ihammers
-Youtube railgun videos
-some Targets to slaughter

Method:

-Watch modern day Railgun vidoes, note the size and speed of rounds used.

-Slaughter some targets with elite railguns for the feel of it

-Do the math!!

Discussion:

So after killing your helpless victims you would have noticed that the current railgun projectile fires at close to lightspeed (it does emit light after all...) so a reasonable guess of 90-99% guess can be made. Modern day Railguns fire at around 2-3Km/s with rounds that appear to be about 500g (being generous here)

Shall we do the math?

lets compare Momentum of both the two projectiles to find the mass of the Elite Railgun slug. On the assumption the Momentum is simular or the same....

P(1)=P(2)

MxV = MxV

0.5x3000=Xx ((3x10^8)x0.9)

1500=Xx 2.7x10^8

1500/ 2.7x10^8 = X

X=0.000006kg

X=0.006 Grams (What the F....??!!)

No you didn't read it wrong! given the speed of the projectile the current projectiles are literally the size of a grain of sand. These rounds must be made of Painite to incur such a large rebuy cost! And no bloody wonder they need a charge up time. they have to be accelerated to lightspeed!!!!

Solution:

-Decrease projectile speed (although this may sound like a bad thing, there would be a very small charge up time required..not to mention major reductions in power and distributor draw!!) A speed of 3-5km/s sounds sufficient with 200-700g slugs. yes this would incur a leading angle at 3km+ but it would be very minor. turning the rail into a semi-skill based weapon.

-Keep current Damage and appearance as it is external factors that are being altered. perhaps a 2-5% increase in DAM for leading angle offset?

-Fire the original scientists!!!

-(optional) Payload for AX compound is always a possibility

- Change In-game railguns out and replace them with a MKII version (this version) In-game rails still remain but are now obsolete in comparison...

Conclusion:

Although currently fun, the current Railguns are unrealistic and inefficient in comparison to modern rails. Not only do these modern rails pose as a newer alterntave, but also make for easier to use and more lethal weapons than the previous model.


CMDR Jaylem

As opposed to the laser weapons that emit solid beams of light in the vacuum of space?

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Aim: To determine the realistic effectiveness of Elites' beloved Railguns.

Hypothesis: We are being blind robbed by ammo costs and unneeded power-draw.

Materials:
-1-2 Railguns/ Ihammers
-Youtube railgun videos
-some Targets to slaughter

Method:

-Watch modern day Railgun vidoes, note the size and speed of rounds used.

-Slaughter some targets with elite railguns for the feel of it

-Do the math!!

Discussion:

So after killing your helpless victims you would have noticed that the current railgun projectile fires at close to lightspeed (it does emit light after all...) so a reasonable guess of 90-99% guess can be made. Modern day Railguns fire at around 2-3Km/s with rounds that appear to be about 500g (being generous here)

Shall we do the math?

lets compare Momentum of both the two projectiles to find the mass of the Elite Railgun slug. On the assumption the Momentum is simular or the same....

P(1)=P(2)

MxV = MxV

0.5x3000=Xx ((3x10^8)x0.9)

1500=Xx 2.7x10^8

1500/ 2.7x10^8 = X

X=0.000006kg

X=0.006 Grams (What the F....??!!)

No you didn't read it wrong! given the speed of the projectile the current projectiles are literally the size of a grain of sand. These rounds must be made of Painite to incur such a large rebuy cost! And no bloody wonder they need a charge up time. they have to be accelerated to lightspeed!!!!

Solution:

-Decrease projectile speed (although this may sound like a bad thing, there would be a very small charge up time required..not to mention major reductions in power and distributor draw!!) A speed of 3-5km/s sounds sufficient with 200-700g slugs. yes this would incur a leading angle at 3km+ but it would be very minor. turning the rail into a semi-skill based weapon.

-Keep current Damage and appearance as it is external factors that are being altered. perhaps a 2-5% increase in DAM for leading angle offset?

-Fire the original scientists!!!

-(optional) Payload for AX compound is always a possibility

- Change In-game railguns out and replace them with a MKII version (this version) In-game rails still remain but are now obsolete in comparison...

Conclusion:

Although currently fun, the current Railguns are unrealistic and inefficient in comparison to modern rails. Not only do these modern rails pose as a newer alterntave, but also make for easier to use and more lethal weapons than the previous model.


CMDR Jaylem

Lots of assumptions.
Where are you getting those from?

 

[Jaylem]

As opposed to the laser weapons that emit solid beams of light in the vacuum of space?

Yeah, look...not everything is easy and logical...not to mention the physics defying shields, explosions in space and vaccum immune airlocks on starports

Lots of assumptions.
Where are you getting those from?

there was a lot of estimations as there are not many figures available. More or less I found it to be a topic of interest as I was already aware that the speed:size of round ratio of current Rail is Waaay off I'd kind of like to see railguns behave less like lasers-more like bullets and this kind of puts out the ridiculous figures that come with the current rail.

Some of the existing figures I found where the speed of the modern rail (varies between sources but generally 2-3Km/s) and as we all know, no mass can be accelerated to lightspeed, so 90-99% (I did 90% for this example). the mass of Modern is unspecified, but looking at it could vary between 0.5-1Kg (composition dependant...)

This is by no means to be taken seriously, but I find the figures very amusing none the less

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Yeah, look...not everything is easy and logical...not to mention the physics defying shields, explosions in space and vaccum immune airlocks on starports



there was a lot of estimations as there are not many figures available. More or less I found it to be a topic of interest as I was already aware that the speed:size of round ratio of current Rail is Waaay off I'd kind of like to see railguns behave less like lasers-more like bullets and this kind of puts out the ridiculous figures that come with the current rail.

Some of the existing figures I found where the speed of the modern rail (varies between sources but generally 2-3Km/s) and as we all know, no mass can be accelerated to lightspeed, so 90-99% (I did 90% for this example).

This is by no means to be taken seriously, but I find the figures very amusing none the less

Haha, understood about the lack of seriousness, but if you're going to invoke the maths pulling figures out of thin air kind of deflates your sails!
Also, why momentum?
I was thinking more about kinetic energy.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

For example a 1kg projectile moving 1000 m/s has the same momentum as a 1000 kg truck/lorry going 1 m/s, but it has 1000x the KE.

 

[Shadowdancer]

So after killing your helpless victims you would have noticed that the current railgun projectile fires at close to lightspeed (it does emit light after all...) so a reasonable guess of 90-99% guess can be made.

No.

One, you don't accelerate mass to that kind of relativistic speed in such a short barrel (unless the barrel is attached to a big huge accelerator ring). One A, you don't accelerate mass to that kind of relativistic speed at all.

Two, it emits light by virtue of a railgun being a stupidly naive physical experiment that disposes a lot of energy in the projectile, or alternatively, in a sabot if you actually want a projectile, so whatever leaves the barrel will be quite the blackbody emitter, and a lot of it will be a rapidly dissipating cloud of plasma doing stone-cold nothing but contaminating the gun and whatever it's attached to.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

There's a reason they chose this motto.

 

[Ozram]

Yeah, look...not everything is easy and logical...not to mention the physics defying shields, explosions in space and vaccum immune airlocks on starports



there was a lot of estimations as there are not many figures available. More or less I found it to be a topic of interest as I was already aware that the speed:size of round ratio of current Rail is Waaay off I'd kind of like to see railguns behave less like lasers-more like bullets and this kind of puts out the ridiculous figures that come with the current rail.

Some of the existing figures I found where the speed of the modern rail (varies between sources but generally 2-3Km/s) and as we all know, no mass can be accelerated to lightspeed, so 90-99% (I did 90% for this example). the mass of Modern is unspecified, but looking at it could vary between 0.5-1Kg (composition dependant...)

This is by no means to be taken seriously, but I find the figures very amusing none the less

Forcefields are real man! So real... too real.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Can someone explain why we can shoot through our own shields?

 

[Ian Phillips]

Can someone explain why we can shoot through our own shields?

I think its much the same as how the 'Healing' lasers work. Phase shifting or similar 'magic'

 

[Ozram]

Can someone explain why we can shoot through our own shields?

It’s like when an old propeller plane can fire its autocannons through the blades without hitting them, but different. There’s a frequency and a ships guns are tuned to the frequency of the shields. Modulated frequency weapons can bypass enemy shields in a similar fashion, but since they don’t have the proper alignment, they work on a multivariant wavelength, allowing a small portion to phase through.

 

[Jaylem]

For example a 1kg projectile moving 1000 m/s has the same momentum as a 1000 kg truck/lorry going 1 m/s, but it has 1000x the KE.

Havn't done that in a while, 0.5MxV^2 or something.... yeah that would of made sense!

No.

One, you don't accelerate mass to that kind of relativistic speed in such a short barrel (unless the barrel is attached to a big huge accelerator ring). One A, you don't accelerate mass to that kind of relativistic speed at all.

Two, it emits light by virtue of a railgun being a stupidly naive physical experiment that disposes a lot of energy in the projectile, or alternatively, in a sabot if you actually want a projectile, so whatever leaves the barrel will be quite the blackbody emitter, and a lot of it will be a rapidly dissipating cloud of plasma doing stone-cold nothing but contaminating the gun and whatever it's attached to.

All valid points (what I understood anyway ) Yeah, I was kind of thinking about the Hadron collider at the time, which is stated that it accelerates electrons the point of emitting light, I didn't acknowledge anything else...kind of did the post as a gag more than anything.

There's a reason they chose this motto.

http://i42.tinypic.com/21lnyar.jpg

HAHA! I don't speak Latin, but as a guess would that be something like Velocity Eradicator or something?

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

It’s like when an old propeller plane can fire its autocannons through the blades without hitting them, but different. There’s a frequency and a ships guns are tuned to the frequency of the shields. Modulated frequency weapons can bypass enemy shields in a similar fashion, but since they don’t have the proper alignment, they work on a multivariant wavelength, allowing a small portion to phase through.

Whew, the world is ok again!

HAHA! I don't speak Latin, but as a guess would that be something like Velocity Eradicator or something?

Pretty much!

 

[Jaylem]

Hey.... Found a way to eradicate Thargoids "in a flash"...pardon the pun.

Imagine, a class 4 Railgun with same shot speed with a 10kg slug... It's be like gently kissing them with a focused blast from Little Boy (or even bigger?)....FUN!!

Screw the AX composite, that would make a spectacular light show! and if the thargoid survives...well then we are done for.

 

[OldSchoolPlayer]

Nice maths for Engineering...

My Potential Energy = FD Potential Energy
MxV(1) = MxV(2)

1 x (My Cutter Pellets x Warp Speed) = 1000 x (Your Sidewinder Pellets x FD Coming Soon Speed)
(My Cutter Pellets x Warp Speed) = 1000 x (Your Sidewinder Pellets x FD Coming Soon Speed)
(My Cutter Pellets x Warp Speed) = 1000 x (Your Sidewinder Pellets) + 1000 x (FD Coming Soon Speed)
(My Cutter Pellets x Warp Speed) - (1000 x (Your Sidewinder Pellets)) = 1000 x (FD Coming Soon Speed)

therefore:

FD Coming Soon Speed = ((My Cutter Pellets x Warp Speed) - (1000 x (Your Sidewinder Pellets))) / 1000

[yesnod] Einstein is in there somewhere...

 

[Archduke]

Electrons emit light through action, whether as result of positional (i.e. potential in relation to other charges) or momenta (kinetic they are accelerated, decelerated or absorb photons from other sources) this works for "deceleration" as much as acceleration, and certainly no requirement for comparablyvrelativistic speeds.Not sure why you're using Newtonian energy eqs without a gamma function for relativistic calc anyway - it's not correct. You need to include Lorenz contractionfor distance and time dilation for time.Ideally, for a more sensible model, take the Hamiltonian for energy and consider all the symmetries not just a thermodynamic.