Ramming speed, Mr Schmee!

[kofeyh]

Dear Frontier,

We've talked about this before, but the over-eager "just let me scan you brosif!" NPCs in RESource sites is out of control. It's not even the occasional bump, every NPC is closing at maximum velocity, and it's the same exact stopping distance that NPCs apply to slow down - 1 km.

This is fine for an eagle. They stop on a dime. An Elite NPC Anaconda does not stop on a dime. They need more than a few inches. Please, please fix this piece of calculation, so the game takes the rough mass of the NPC into account and have them actually slow down in a period that is physically possible.

I was rammed by two Anacondas and a Clipper - simultaneously - with no shields. Even the mighty FAS armour is no match for that ridiculous outcome.

Every time I hear the active scan alarm warning I immediately have to use thruster movement (regardless of what I am doing) to avoid a guaranteed impact.

In the middle of picking up cargo, no less, doing less than 100m per second an anaconda still managed to barge into me. I can accept 'relative velocity' as a reason when I reverse direction and boost - creating massive combined head-on speeds; but I was just helping myself to cargo for heaven's sake.

Can we please get some traction on this. Don't make me go back to endless slave runs in the Cutter because combat in RES sites is just endless stupid collisions that serve no purpose but to result in unexpected rebuy screens. Because right now, that's all we have left.

Everything else (including long range missions now it seems) is just a waste of time and effort.:S

<3 cmdr kofeyh

PS: I really do <3 frontier; it's just sloppy coding to make a basic effort at NPC pirate scans has been left in this state for so long it's beyond a joke.

 

[jay3141592]

It's been documented as a known issue for a bit now.

So probably, next season. The season after the NPCs will stop spinning and might actually fight back.

 

[Chainguns]

I wonder if it isn't WAI. Before 1.5 / 2.0 they would always stop without hitting you sometimes I would actually want that hit (4 pips to sys in a Clipper vs a Python) but their reverse speed matched my forward, so I had to boost ram them.

It is particularly annoying in the middle of a fight with a wing of 3 big-asp ships and in the corner of your eye you see 'what are you hauling?' in comms and you just know ... no matter how weird your combat manoeuvres may be ... 2 seconds later... CLANG the fight just became unwinnable.

 

[The_Quasar]

I only get the occasional clang, as something hits me during a dogfight, that is usually an Asp. Otherwise, I just dodge them, unless I particularly want to ram them myself. They tend to do far more damage to themselves, but then again, I am in a combat FDL.

 

[kofeyh]

I only get the occasional clang, as something hits me during a dogfight, that is usually an Asp. Otherwise, I just dodge them, unless I particularly want to ram them myself. They tend to do far more damage to themselves, but then again, I am in a combat FDL.

It's just that Frontier have made all ships, regardless of mass stop in the same distance; which doesn't work and should never have even been expected to work. It still doesn't work any more than it did (not) work on day one.

It simply needs amending. It's been raised countless times. One should not need 2k+ in shields or hull just to enter a sodding RES site, to avoid survive the constant NPC ramming. It's been like this for at least 6+ months.

Right now, I have to consciously make the decision to leave with ~45% hull. Not because I am particularly chicken, but because I can guarantee the next fight I am in, some NPC Anaconda will pile into my ride, because they are so very very desperate to know what I am carrying.

edit: note that Resource extraction site [high] is bad for this; however the hazardous version is almost unplayable at this point. Not because of combat risk, oh no, that would be too predictable. Just endless wings of ramming anaconda.

 

[PiLhEaD]

Agreed.

The ammount of ramming I'm receiving has gone beyond being funny.

Good job my shields are set to stun!

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I fly a full combat FDL, and RES farm quite often. But I very rarely get rammed at a RES site.
I tend to keep moving alot, mind you. It's actually usually eagles and vipers doing to colliding.
I usually hear "scan detected" followed shortly after the NASA shuttle launch noise that vipers make. Then clang!

I find the worst offenders are the damn system security outside ports. One hit my FDL so hard during docking, he took out most of my shields and knocked me in to the side of the letterbox. Lol
Luckily I wasn't speeding. I do have several 100cr fines for being rammed while speeding though. It's a pain!

 

[Salami]

Actually, leave the calculation alone, give every ship stopping on a dime.
MUCH less time consuming.
And it must be hilarious seeing a Vette stop instantaneous.

 

[GammaZ]

In RES it pretty much forces to use heavy ship, and avoid RES sites with police.
In hazardous res almost all scans are by pirates, just put 4 pips in sys and wait for a hit, then finish what's left...
But overall yes, it is annoying as hell, and was introduced in 1.4 IIRC... i hoped they will fix it in 1.5/2.0 but no... probably in 5.0 then...

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

It's just that Frontier have made all ships, regardless of mass stop in the same distance; which doesn't work and should never have even been expected to work. It still doesn't work any more than it did (not) work on day one.

Umm, WHAT?

That is so clearly not true, I wonder how many ships you have actually flown. Anyone flying, say, a Courier knows it stops on a freaking dime, and the Clipper drifts forever. Python is somewhere in-between.

 

[Therinfluffs]

Elite still needs to add more new ships to get rammed by in RES before they fix the basic gameplay mechanics.

 

[Im_Lost]

The bigger the ship you fly the worse it gets as well, because they seem completely unable to judge size and distance.

This and the fact NPCs often stop and spin on the spot when attacked just goes to show how much work the "AI" needs. It has never been very good.

 

[CMDR Taipo]

Umm, WHAT?

That is so clearly not true, I wonder how many ships you have actually flown. Anyone flying, say, a Courier knows it stops on a freaking dime, and the Clipper drifts forever. Python is somewhere in-between.

Read from top to bottom, the whole thread and you'll understand he's talking about how FD programmed the Pirates that are scanning. And yes, they can't stop that quickly thus the whole point of this thread.

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

Read from top to bottom, the whole thread and you'll understand he's talking about how FD programmed the Pirates that are scanning. And yes, they can't stop that quickly thus the whole point of this thread.

I read it, and the other dozen that have been about the same subject. 80% of the posts these days are rehashes and nothing new. Another 10% are posted in the wrong forum.

TBH, I spend a lot of time in RES zones, I have not had a ship just come up ram me unless I was moving forward as well.

Maybe they are smarter in Empire space, I dunno.

 

[Mephane]

I am hoping this is a top priority issue slated for a minor update asap.

 

[d8veh]

In my experience, it's rare that they ram you during combat except FDL, FDS and FGS charge at you if they get the chance. They're easy to avoid with vertical thrusters. Anacondas might try, but they're too slow. Vultures have a new tactic of stopping dead, which could make you fly into them as if you've been rammed. The most common ramming is when you face new incoming ships to scan them. They come charging in to scan you, but can't stop in time, which, obviously, is worse if you're moving forward. You can avoid being rammed by them by always using full reverse as you turn to scan them. I've done about 150 hours in RESs since 1.5,and I seem to have the measure of them. I've never lost more than one ring of my shields from the odd clang.

 

[kofeyh]

The "it doesn't happen to me, so, huh, it must be your problem" is great but doesn't explain the wing of anaconda that will happily plough through you to scan because their stopping distance is greater than 1km at maximum speed.

It also ignores the very real situation where Anaconda in particular wont even bother to stop and just ride on through. This is fine if you have max pips to shields. It's less fine if you are toe-to-toe with another ship and are down to hull and attempting to reposition.

Also a small ship is unlikely to be a target priority in a RES site if other medium and large ships are around. So you'll seldom see this in such circumstances. Finally this is most noticible in a hazardous site. If you never enter those, then you'll not see the same thing.

Your experience will vary depending. But this is not an uncommon occurance and has become much worse post 1.4 when larger ships were re-added. I am driving a FAS which is both nimble and fast; yet I can be at a dead stop and Anaconda (in particular) will still approach at max speed and only try to stop (or, again not even bother) within the scanner range.

This then becomes rediculous if you are dancing with two other anaconda and perhaps a drop ship or a wing of anaconda and another anaconda ploughs into the fray.

Lastly people mansplaining how to solve the problem by this one simple trick - I don't need to fly better (I have no problem positioning to maintain a fight) but avoiding ships that shouldn't be doing what they are doing in the first place at the same time is a bit unnecessary. When you are down to 15% hull in a fight with two anaconda, maybe you will not be sitting there dumb and fat watching from the sidelines deciding which ship to avoid being rammed by.

I'll be the guy busy knocking heads together. And putting up with a silly mechanic that exists purely because of AI not being sufficiently godly to stop in 1km, or less, dead.

Fly safe, CMDRs.

 

[Bacalao]

I'd just like ships to have their brakes back, maybe I'm just crazy but since 1.5/2,0 I can't stop anything, my FDS is particularly difficult (it always had a lot of mass, now the reverse thrusters seem to be powered by a watch battery). I think they changed reverse thruster output and didn't give NPCs the memo.

 

[Therinfluffs]

I've been rammed and scanned so many times It feels like going through the worlds most perverted TSA search any time I dock or go remotely near an RES ._. doesn't matter what ship I'm in in either. I have had my hull and shields thoroughly violated, this is coming from someone near Elite combat rank with experience in the Anaconda, Corvette, FDL, Vulture, etc. Anything you can stick guns on, i've had it rammed, I can't get up to go to the restroom without a save and exit to prevent my ship from being destroyed.

 

[d8veh]

I'd just like ships to have their brakes back, maybe I'm just crazy but since 1.5/2,0 I can't stop anything, my FDS is particularly difficult (it always had a lot of mass, now the reverse thrusters seem to be powered by a watch battery). I think they changed reverse thruster output and didn't give NPCs the memo.

Try the new FDL. It's so agile now that this ramming just isn't a problem for it. Your speed goes over 100 just lifting off the launch pad with the vertical thrusters.