Ranking rewards and the need for a new exploeation ship!

[Allchemyst]

Hello! I had those two ideas at the same time somewhere in the shower, and I thought I'd have a go and share them.

First, I don't know how missions rewards will be given after 2.1 goes online, but I wanted to suggest that, in addition to unlocking better missions, skill ranking would also increase rewards for lower level missions by a certain margin.

Very much in the same way, I'd like to see faction ranking have a similar effect.

For an exmple, paying a beginner nobody pilot 20k credits to go and save one's relatives might constitute a proper reward, but asking an admiral of the fleet with an elite combat rank to do the same thing should come with additional fees. The added bonus would be coming from the system's allegiance, as it tries to incentivise participation from its finer members,

I would'n want to see this simply bloat away the rewards we get from doing missions ; rather, the base reward for missions should be smaller, but not at the very beginning (beginner players already have their plate full, let's not make it harder to them), and neither at the very end (elite missions), because those are already more rewarding.

So the base reward of missions would follow a downwards curve, more pronounced towards the middle of rank progression, and the reward curve should arc invertly.

The fun/constructive part that adds texture and diversity to the game:

I thought it would be neat if the empire and Federation would grant the rank bonus 50% from skill and 50% from reputation (to represent how they incentivise political loyalty etc.), while the Alliance bonus would come 100% from skill, to display how the Alliance focuses more on attracting human value and skill rather than political gimmicking.

This would encourage players to pursue higher skill and political rank, and give a certain amount of relevance to political titles (Few people, I believe, wouldn't be grateful to gain more than system permits as they progress).


Second - and I really wonder why I can't find a similar thread somewhere - Since the arrival of the Imperial Cutter and the Corvette, I have been wondering if explorers were also going to get their own "top of the line" half-a-billion prestige vessel.

Because, let's be honest, the Asp is to exploration what the Vulture is to PVE : Something from which there aren't any significant upgrades. Sure, you can strap up - or strip down - an Anaconda to do pretty much the same thing (or ALL the things, to be honest), but it adds a bit more safety, and that's pretty much it. Traders certainly benefit from the Cutter, the Corvette is but a huge and badass vulture on steroids, and I just feel sad that there isin't something beyond the anaconda/asp duo.

Pragmatic players will say that this is an empty demand, knowing full well - and they aren't wrong - that a 30-35 Ly 'conda is all that you need, but it feels wrong to me that the ultimate ship for a profession should be an all-purpose ship, if you catch my meaning.

And since I haven't heard any announcement for a new exploration ship (I've seen what was announced ; belugas, dolphins and whatnot... sweet, sweet belugas...), I came to suggest this:



Ship loadout: Mediocre to preserve weight and power. No huge hardpoint, but good weapon placement.

Meaningful Ship internals:

Class 8 FSD (no ship has such a thing as of now)
Class 8 thrusters
Class 6 Power Plant
Class 7 Power Distributor

Bulkheads: Fragile. the ship would be built to be especially light

Cockpit: Built to have a great 360 degree line of sight, seated at the front top of the ship so that its body dosen't block front view either.

Ship manoeuvrability: Higher that the 'conda, lower than the corvette, but faster than either.

Internal compartments: one class 7, one class 6, multiple class 5 and 4s, and two class 1 just to fit scanners (as a dedicated explorer is expected to have such things - and wouldn't want to waste space). Cutting down on big compartments reduces the overall mass of the ship too.


The whole point of the ship would be to allow beefed-up jump capability without radical downgrading of internals, as in the FSD would already be so powerful compared to the ship's maximum mass that class A internals wouldn't lower the jump range significantly, making the ship more viable at "everything else". Also, the relation between the ship's mass and it's thrusters (along with thruster placement) would allow it to fight the gravity of even the most massive planets like a much lighter ship would.

To me, those two factors would definitely make it an awesome explorer ship. And contrary to an Asp, it could serve as a much better far-away base for science teams and the like.

For that reason, I'd suggest a clean, lab-like aesthetic. Maybe a bit of imperial flair even, there's never enough imperial style around...


Farewell, and thanks for reading!

 

[CMDR Argent Steel]

I thought it would be neat if the empire and Federation would grant the rank bonus 50% from skill and 50% from reputation (to represent how they incentivise political loyalty etc.), while the Alliance bonus would come 100% from skill, to display how the Alliance focuses more on attracting human value and skill rather than political gimmicking.

Why should we assume the Alliance is not also interested in political gimmicking?

 

[Allchemyst]

Why should we assume the Alliance is not also interested in political gimmicking?

Oh it clearly is, we're talking about a political formation, after all. But it's a more de-centralized alliance of powers rather than a rigid body of unified power, thus why the Alliance has no ranks to progress in. I'm merely pointing out that the fact that the alliance has no reputation ranking implies it does not treat political action - and even support towards itself - in the same manner. Everybody is, plus or less, politically equal regardless of their contribution. Rabid ambition (and all the gimmicking it implies) is much more fruitful within a more centralized system such as the Empire.

The nuance I make is not that the Alliance is not interested in political gimmicking, but that it must focus on something else than political ascencion when treating its supporters.

The value of the individual in such a case comes not from his standing towards the system of power, but simply from what he can do. As the Alliance does not reward people with titles, it must do something else to attrack highly skilled individuals - thus my idea, rewarding raw personal skill.

However, that's a bit beside the point. regardless of wether or not the Alliance craves political gimmicking or not, I think the overall change I'm proposing would add another dimension to faction mechanisms - which is something they seem to need.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Class 8 FSD and lightweight - Are you looking for FD to give you a ship that can jump 60 LY?
Class 8 Thrusters and lightweight - Is this supposed to be an exploration ship or a speed demon?
Class 7 distributor - Sounds like a combat ship to me

 

[clinton]

Bring back the Turner Class

They should bring the good old Turner Class in as an Alliance locked exploration ship:

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Turner_Class

I think a class 8 frameshift drive is a bit excessive but perhaps a class 7 with a lighter weight than the Cutter will be appropriate.

It should be faster than the Cutter but even less maneuverable.

I'd give it a huge hardpoint but otherwise perhaps just two mediums. The exploration fitout may have a huge beam and two mining lasers (for mining those strange rocks out in the void) for example.

 

[Chrystoph]

Oddly, while I agree with the proposal, the OP has described an Asp/Conda "on steroids". My immediate envision after reading the OP was not an explorer, but a super trader.

My recommendation would be something like a rework of the Viper Mk IV to deemphasize combat capability and otherwise include the explorer aspects of the OP.

http://coriolis.io/outfit/viper_mk_...320r43v62i2f.Iw1-kA==.Aw1-kA==?bn=24.48 LY PL

Changes I would make:

• Remove the Medium Hardpoints
• Add 1 Class 3 Internal Compartment
• Upgrade the Frame Shift Drive capability to Class 5 or 6
• a new model in keeping with the mass (although, personally, I think the Viper Mk IV looks like an exploratory lander if it was resized to a slightly larger model)

This would give you a ship that is more agile than the big guys, less agile than fighters, isn't over the top as an general utility ship, and can carry an explorer rig out with enough option for variety (that one extra Class 3).

 

[Allchemyst]

Well well well, interesting feedback!

Class 8 FSD and lightweight - Are you looking for FD to give you a ship that can jump 60 LY?
Class 8 Thrusters and lightweight - Is this supposed to be an exploration ship or a speed demon?
Class 7 distributor - Sounds like a combat ship to me

About the distributor, you may very well be right, it could easily be downgraded without the ship losing efficience in its primary role. Let's make it a class 5 or something. I was thinking of giving it good boosting capabilities, but that can be achieved in other ways.

About the FSD, althought yours is quite explicitly a rhetorical question - I get your point - Why not 45? The cutter just destroys other trading ships with its tonnage, its "tankyness", and how hard it is to mass-lock, and the manoeuvrability/firepower/tankiness of the Corvette mean it can take on everything - and lots of it. Why not make a ship that outshines other exploration ships at what they're supposed to do?

Keep in mind I'm suggestiing to add an "endgame" prestige ship, for which you have to work and pay one hell of a lot, like the cutter and corvette.

but to me, the real point of the mass/FSD class ratio is not so much to give it a riddiculous jump range, but rather to make the jump range change very little depending on the ship's mass. THAT would make it somewhat unique.

For an example, an "empty" Anaconda with type D can reach 30/35 LY, but fully kitted, it goes down to 16 or so. That calls for a lot of compromise.

And I'm proposing we add a ship that does not need to compromise on internals to be a good explorer. Maybe it could go from 35 LY A'd out to 40 with full D internals and no weapons or someting like that.

About the thrusters, I think it should be faster and more manoeuverable than a conda, less manoeuverable than a Corvette, but that its thrusters (especially its downwards thrusters) would allow it to fight heavy gravity.

It couldn't be a speed demon, simply because it's made to thrust upwards as much as forward. While other ships struggle heavily against massive gravity (try landing a cutter in 6G...), this ship should not (so much).
That would be one of its main perks: land a whole science team and their equipment under any circumstances and in any environment and allow in-depth exploration of a system.

They should bring the good old Turner Class in as an Alliance locked exploration ship:

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Turner_Class

I think a class 8 frameshift drive is a bit excessive but perhaps a class 7 with a lighter weight than the Cutter will be appropriate.

It should be faster than the Cutter but even less maneuverable.

I'd give it a huge hardpoint but otherwise perhaps just two mediums. The exploration fitout may have a huge beam and two mining lasers (for mining those strange rocks out in the void) for example.

I really love the alliance locked idea. It would balance things out between factions. Maybe only elite explorers who are allied with the Alliance could get it? That Would make sense to me.

For the FSD size, let's remember class and type affect ships differently. I'm proposing a class 8 FSD (read above) to make the ship's internals' mass plus or less irrelevant for its jump range, not to throw it to the other side of the galaxy in a single leap. It would be "its perk"

As for the manoeuverability, I can't agree with that. The only thing I could picture that's less manoeuverable that a Cutter is an asteroid... Seriously the drifting is hilarious. And since you'll be exploring in asteroid fields (requires manoeuvrability - that's why many people have crossed out the Cutter as a mining ship, for an example) and just trying to land in hazardous environments (once again, you need manoeuvrability), I'd prescribe a higher base speed, MUCH lower boost speed, and higher manoeuvrability than the Cutter. The thrusters focus, once again, is safe high-grav landing, not racing.

One Huge and two med hardpoints I think could be acceptable, but the huge hardpoint will become much more viable in 2.1 than it is now, so I'd fear it would still be too much.

Oddly, while I agree with the proposal, the OP has described an Asp/Conda "on steroids". My immediate envision after reading the OP was not an explorer, but a super trader.

My recommendation would be something like a rework of the Viper Mk IV to deemphasize combat capability and otherwise include the explorer aspects of the OP.

http://coriolis.io/outfit/viper_mk_...---320r43v62i2f.Iw1-kA==.Aw1-kA==?bn=Explorer

Changes I would make:

• Remove the Medium Hardpoints
• Add 1 Class 3 Internal Compartment
• Upgrade the Frame Shift Drive capability to Class 5 or 6
• a new model in keeping with the mass (although, personally, I think the Viper Mk IV looks like an exploratory lander if it was resized to a slightly larger model)

This would give you a ship that is more agile than the big guys, less agile than fighters, isn't over the top as an general utility ship, and can carry an explorer rig out with enough option for variety (that one extra Class 3).

Interesting. But while I like your very pragmatic approach (never enough of that in suggestions), you are pretty much re-making the Asp, as far as I understand it, and missing my point. Of course a beefed-up spin-up of the Viper IV is easier to balance and etc., but it hardly makes for a satisfactory end-game reward "on par" with the Cutter and the Corvette, and that's what I'm aiming for right here.

It's interesting you mention the Viper 4, because it's actually been my first explorer (I had only been a vulture fighter before), and it truly has everything. And killer looks. After that, I tried to do planetary exploration in a Conda. The pain!

The issue is that you could only fit an expedition in a "bigger" viper if its members were powderized.


Now why isin't my ship a conda on steroids?

1) its shields and hull points would be drastically lower. No tankiness. Of the Anaconda/cutter/corvette/whatever class, the new ship should be the lightest and most fragile.

2) It would have much less fighting capability than any other large ship.

3) Lack of big internal compartments would make it sub-par to the Anaconda for trading.

4) Smaller mass than the 'Conda would make it easier to mass-lock, making both trading and piracy more difficult.

As for the internals, I just gave a vague idea, because that's pretty much for Frontier to balance. As I say, a good number of small internals =/= as good as few big internals for trading, but allows for more versatility.

If anything, like other exploration ships, the new ship would be an excellent smuggling vessel, about that you might be right, and that would warrant a bit of balancing work.

It's interesting to get that kind of feedback, you guys are pointing all the flaws, that's nice!


Above all else thought, and technicalities set aside, I'm suggestion a concept here: large prestige ship, can land on massive planets with a huge crew and many vehicles, and dosen't need to compromise on internal components quality to reach good jumo ranges. I think there's space for that.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Well well well, interesting feedback!




About the distributor, you may very well be right, it could easily be downgraded without the ship losing efficience in its primary role. Let's make it a class 5 or something. I was thinking of giving it good boosting capabilities, but that can be achieved in other ways.

About the FSD, althought yours is quite explicitly a rhetorical question - I get your point - Why not 45? The cutter just destroys other trading ships with its tonnage, its "tankyness", and how hard it is to mass-lock, and the manoeuvrability/firepower/tankiness of the Corvette mean it can take on everything - and lots of it. Why not make a ship that outshines other exploration ships at what they're supposed to do?

Keep in mind I'm suggestiing to add an "endgame" prestige ship, for which you have to work and pay one hell of a lot, like the cutter and corvette.

but to me, the real point of the mass/FSD class ratio is not so much to give it a riddiculous jump range, but rather to make the jump range change very little depending on the ship's mass. THAT would make it somewhat unique.

For an example, an "empty" Anaconda with type D can reach 30/35 LY, but fully kitted, it goes down to 16 or so. That calls for a lot of compromise.

And I'm proposing we add a ship that does not need to compromise on internals to be a good explorer. Maybe it could go from 35 LY A'd out to 40 with full D internals and no weapons or someting like that.

About the thrusters, I think it should be faster and more manoeuverable than a conda, less manoeuverable than a Corvette, but that its thrusters (especially its downwards thrusters) would allow it to fight heavy gravity.

It couldn't be a speed demon, simply because it's made to thrust upwards as much as forward. While other ships struggle heavily against massive gravity (try landing a cutter in 6G...), this ship should not (so much).
That would be one of its main perks: land a whole science team and their equipment under any circumstances and in any environment and allow in-depth exploration of a system.

I really love the alliance locked idea. It would balance things out between factions. Maybe only elite explorers who are allied with the Alliance could get it? That Would make sense to me.

Now that you went into some more detail, I like your idea. The ships stats (mass, maneuverability, etc) would need to be carefully balanced in regards to hull mass, internals, and FSD and Thrusters.

The only part I would disagree with is locking it behind an artificial grind wall like "elite exploration rank" or "admiral of the alliance" or something like that. The price for ships like this is a big enough entry barrier IMO. I too would like to see the alliance get some ships and ranks, but I think this is the wrong way to go about it. Maybe when the mission system is improved (Engineers???) then the grind to the top rank will not be so bad.