Rarest procedure generated object?

[Pirin]

Hi Explorers

On my way back to Bubble from BP i found this:

Spoiler

It was one of my biggest :O :S moments. The reason is my previous exploration trip was dedicated to giant and supergiant stars. I spent almost 5 months in Core, explored hundreds of AA-A systems actively searching for these types of stars. And yet i was unable to find even a single A IA0 star. I found many B IA0 instead and all of them were designated as B class on Galaxy map and "class A blue-white supergiant" on system map. So i had a solid theory that something went wrong when Star Forge was creating Blue Supergiants and they got mixed: all of them were class B on galaxy map and class A on system map. And now i find this? So long with my nice little theory
Now i am wondering two things:

1. Was i so utterly unlucky not to find any A IA0 after months of searching and hundreds of AA-As explored? Or indeed this is the rarest procedure generated object in the Galaxy?
2. My theory of Star Forge misfiring also included M and K class supergiants. Just like A/B all red supergiants i found were class K on galaxy map and M on system map. So does my finding mean that class M IA0 also exists in procedure generated space? And again i was unlucky not to find it?

Do you guys have any opinion on this? Has anyone found procedure generated A IA0 or M IA0?


As a sidenote, this is how A1 IA0 looks like:

Spoiler

On this picture it is at 100 000ls distance. After consulting http://universalcartographics.org and http://www.elitegalaxyonline.com it seems like with 499.7371 solar radii this is the largest procedure generated object reported so far.

 

[Surly_Badger]

Amazing find!

 

[CDR Michael Darkmoor]

Hi Explorers

On my way back to Bubble from BP i found this:

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/FOUfHpA.png

It was one of my biggest :O :S moments. The reason is my previous exploration trip was dedicated to giant and supergiant stars. I spent almost 5 months in Core, explored hundreds of AA-A systems actively searching for these types of stars. And yet i was unable to find even a single A IA0 star. I found many B IA0 instead and all of them were designated as B class on Galaxy map and "class A blue-white supergiant" on system map. So i had a solid theory that something went wrong when Star Forge was creating Blue Supergiants and they got mixed: all of them were class B on galaxy map and class A on system map. And now i find this? So long with my nice little theory
Now i am wondering two things:

1. Was i so utterly unlucky not to find any A IA0 after months of searching and hundreds of AA-As explored? Or indeed this is the rarest procedure generated object in the Galaxy?
2. My theory of Star Forge misfiring also included M and K class supergiants. Just like A/B all red supergiants i found were class K on galaxy map and M on system map. So does my finding mean that class M IA0 also exists in procedure generated space? And again i was unlucky not to find it?

Do you guys have any opinion on this? Has anyone found procedure generated A IA0 or M IA0?


As a sidenote, this is how A1 IA0 looks like:

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/WHkWhf1.png

On this picture it is at 100 000ls distance. After consulting http://universalcartographics.org and http://www.elitegalaxyonline.com it seems like with 499.7371 solar radii this is the largest procedure generated object reported so far.

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I think you are limiting yourself when sticking to just AA-A for the sector (better is just the sector designator by itself - Then the most massive systems appear in line from largest to smallest). The whole Western Route from Beagle point is an untouched wonderland of these massive H System behemoths (though I have only seen one A IAO myself).
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Go West, young lad!

 

[Jackie Silver]

1. Was i so utterly unlucky not to find any A IA0 after months of searching and hundreds of AA-As explored? Or indeed this is the rarest procedure generated object in the Galaxy?

I have one recorded (the slightly smaller VEGNAO AA-A H3) from about five thousand systems; they're certainly very rare.

So does my finding mean that class M IA0 also exists in procedure generated space? And again i was unlucky not to find it?

I don't have any recorded.

Do you guys have any opinion on this?

I was looking at the way the giant stars are created in the Forge a while back. There are essentially two separate tracks of giant stars - one contains very, very massive stars undergoing very rapid evolution, the other contains older, lower mass stars. The A IAO star is an example of the former - it is a very high mass star which is almost at the end of its track. A more common A IAB star (for instance) is an example of the latter - a low mass star. There is a small degree of overlap (in temperature) between the two tracks, but I don't think the high mass stars get cooler than A (in the Forge) before their fate overtakes them and they end up as a black hole. I don't think they transition to red supergiants as they might IRL.

I've got some HR and other diagrams around, I can dig them out if you like? Would certainly welcome a fresh perspective, I get confused these days between what happens in the Forge and what's real...

 

[Jackie Silver]

To illustrate, here's an HR diagram and a corresponding age-luminosity diagram showing the groups for proc-gen stars.

To distinguish them I've called the more luminous, very young (age 1-2 MYr, radius typically ~100 to 500 Rsol) group supergiants and the less luminous (older, radius ~30 - 50 Rsol) group giants, though the Forge uses the term supergiant quite freely (and in any case it's not well-defined.) It's clear that they're very distinct groups in-game (though I'm not 100% certain that the supergiant group isn't composed of two separate overlapping curves.)
The blue Wolf Rayet group follow their own odd curve right down to cool temperatures which is why the occasional weird cold WR shows up.
The purple group lumps together everything else and is broadly equivalent to the Main Sequence.

On the HR diagram you can see the small degree of overlap in temperature between the cold end of the more luminous supergiant group and the hot end of the less luminous giant group.
The A IAO stars are at the tail end of the supergiant group.

Could you possibly pass me some more of your AA-A H star data (especially the star details for that A IAO!) please Pirin? The charts here include a fair number of your earlier finds.

 

[Pirin]

Thanks for the detailed analysis Jackie. Brilliant as always [up]

I agree with all you said. Just cant figure out why A IA0 are so rare compared to B IA0. This seems a bit odd. Another thing which i dont fully understand is it looks like there is large gap between regular A stars which are typically 1-3 solar masses and these supergiants going 40+ It is not like O and B class stars which have medium mass members often labelled as F and G-type system on star map.

Actually i found another A IA0 close to the first one. And another one is reported to universalcartographics.org, it was only marginally smaller than mine. That makes 4 stars in total which are known to me. The things they have in common:

- extremely large, smallest one being 490Rsol
- none of them is located in Core proper.
-temperatures 9-10000K

Not sure what conclusion can be made from this, if any One guess is A IA0 probably could be considered a blue supergiant approaching yellow supergiant stage? The age of <1 million doesnt fit the picture but not sure if we can trust the age of the stars in ED. After all we have systems with black holes and other stars - all at same age. I dont see how this could happen :S
Anyway, these are the two stars i found:

Spoiler

On my return trip to Bubble i recorded several dozens more AA-As. Will be very happy to share but need some time to put all the data in a spreadsheet

 

[Jackie Silver]

Just cant figure out why A IA0 are so rare compared to B IA0. This seems a bit odd. Another thing which i dont fully understand is it looks like there is large gap between regular A stars which are typically 1-3 solar masses and these supergiants going 40+ It is not like O and B class stars which have medium mass members often labelled as F and G-type system on star map.

I think it's because we're seeing something that's dynamic - any star with a surface temperature in the right range will be spectral type A, but whereas an ordinary class A on the main sequence will be a little over solar mass and radius and naturally have that temperature, these supergiant As will have begun their life as very hot O stars and then as they expand to such an enormous radius their surface area is much larger and cools through B down to A; I think the As are so rare because this is the end of the line and they become black holes, it's just where that happens.

Not sure what conclusion can be made from this, if any One guess is A IA0 probably could be considered a blue supergiant approaching yellow supergiant stage? The age of <1 million doesnt fit the picture but not sure if we can trust the age of the stars in ED. After all we have systems with black holes and other stars - all at same age. I dont see how this could happen :S

Yeah, I think that's about the size of it, except that I don't think the Forge simulates either the unstable yellow super/hypergiant phase or (proc-gen, massive) red supergiants of this type, I think it just goes straight to black hole. No blue loop stuff. Dunno, though, be very cool if it does, but you'd think we'd at least find proc-gen red supergiants if it did.
(I've seen a few proc-gen "red supergiants", but they very much fall onto the lower curve here - they're not true red supergiants of the kind we'd get if one of these massive stars turned from blue supergiant to red supergiant. There are also some "red giants" which are tiny... don't ask me!)

On my return trip to Bubble i recorded several dozens more AA-As. Will be very happy to share but need some time to put all the data in a spreadsheet

Brilliant. As things like these A IAOs are so rare even among AA-A H stars any data at all is great.