Raw Metals and Minerals not for sale at stations

Father Cool · May 1, 2015

I would like to suggest (although I don't know if this has been suggested previously but I haven't seen it) that metals and mineral commodities are no longer made purchasable from stations, only salable (maybe keep them purchasable at extraction and refinery system outposts as the big hitter traders in the large ships can't dock there as their ships are too big so would allow noobs and minor traders to still benefit from the higher margins but with their lower volume transports).

The reason for this suggestion is twofold. Firstly it would make mining a real career as the only way to obtain these commodities would be to mine them and sell them on. Hence the most expensive commodities would encourage mining. Secondly a lack of metals to buy for the trader, which lets be honest is really the only thing worth trading (gold, palladium etc), to make the best margins would force traders to buy and sell the other 'placeholder' commodities which at the moment don't get a fat lot of love, in fact I'm surprised that any of the lesser commodities ever get transported anywhere in Elite world.

Comments welcome!

Blaubart · May 1, 2015

uhm... 1st of all, i don't think Minerals or metals are in any way superior to other trading goods. Maybe you have found a system or two where the demand is high and the supply two, so the margin is really good but this is also valid for other goods in other systems.

What your request is basicly doing, is removing the whole spectrum from the commodities market. Rendering those wares inexistent. It would end up to be like illegal cargo which is only given to a base and then magicly disappears - without the fines of course. But I don't like that. You don't just take the wares out o the trading market. You also kill the bulletin board missions which require minerals or metals. It's also an aspect of realism to have these wares in the universe. Those are the raw materials to build anything from the smallest sidewinder to the largest station.

It would make the whole universe less believable.

I think it's not the traders that need a nerf. Its the miners that need a boost to become more rewarding. - Which is planned with the mining droids and everything.

Dr Wookie · May 1, 2015

Hii OP, you would be depriving entire star systems of large parts of their livelihood if you did that!

Defacto · May 1, 2015

Why?

If there's a problem somewhere else in the system (like metals only being worth the time when trading), then we should fix that by fixing the problem, not covering it up with some arbitrary thing to ''make mining a real career''.

Father Cool · May 1, 2015

Whoa only a suggestion like! ☺

Im not sure that your counter argument stands up though. Firstly I am not suggesting removing anything from the market just revise how its moved around. I could argue that currently the way raw materials are transported is unrealistic as realistic manufacturing of goods generally follows the route of extraction, refining, parts fabrication, assembly. It would follow then that once a metal is refined it is then transported to a system that would use it to make something and that would be the end of its existance as raw metal. The way its passed from pillar to post ad it is at present could be classed as unrealistic. As for it 'magically' vanishing, it currently does that in any case when you sell it to a station that doesnt sell it but only buys. If you sell 200T of gold for instance there isnt suddenly 200T to buy there. By doing what I suggest it doesnt deprive systems at all but gives added purpose and role to people and pilots who can provide that service rather than have it done facelessly by the game. That would make the universe more believable surely not less. Doing the equivalent of taking steel sheets to the DIY store and then someone taking those to the car factory to make cars rather than the car factory buying direct just to give the truck company a job makes less sense.

Anyway realism aside during my granted short time trading, apart from rares, I found that by far the best margins were made on Gold and Palladium. There were the odd short term anomalies but to grind trade these were the bread and butter really and consistantly rake between 1000 and 1500 cr per ton profit. The other stuff is generally to cheap to buy to vary by that amount. What this does is by and large make the other commodities pointlesd outside of mission specific requests. I jusy felt this was a good way to level the playing field for the cheaper commodities and at the same time give mining some value.

Just a thought.

Psycho Romeo · May 2, 2015

I'm not sure what this suggestion achieves.

Removing metals and minerals from the commodity market won't incentivize miners to mine for it. Its price won't change in a meaningful way would it?

Traders will continue trucking in the exact same way they currently do, except with the next best thing.

So what will this achieve? You mentioned leveling the playing field. Is this basically just a nerf to trading?

Father Cool · May 2, 2015

Not really a nerf par se but making it more profitable to actally spend the time mining the stuff rather than shuffling it about. At the moment its a case of why bother mining for an age to get a few hundred k credits worth of commodity when I can just buy the stuff at a station and ferry it somewhere else for that same amount of credits per 10 minute trip. Just trying to make incentive that all.

- - - Updated - - -

Levelling the field was in reference to actually making the cheaper stuff worth buying, not levelling the career paths, although this would do so. Im not adversed to raising the prices of the goods as a whole if the traders are worried about actual figures to maintain their turnovers as long as the metals etc that the miners would have access to drag in much more. To balance the time spent doing it.

Father Cool · May 2, 2015

Also as I said it wont be removed from the market just only buyable from small extraction/refinery stations or directly mined.

Psycho Romeo · May 2, 2015

Father Cool said:
Not really a nerf par se but making it more profitable to actally spend the time mining the stuff rather than shuffling it about. At the moment its a case of why bother mining for an age to get a few hundred k credits worth of commodity when I can just buy the stuff at a station and ferry it somewhere else for that same amount of credits per 10 minute trip. Just trying to make incentive that all.

This is what I mean exactly. How does removing metals from purchase at commodity markets give any incentives to miners?

GeneralIdea1964 · May 4, 2015

Before changing anything that drastic,
I think currently, the market forces model is only just getting into it's stride. This needs to maybe be made a bit more realistic.
I returned to the systems that many of us know and love from Beta testing days and the price differentials have reduced on the likes of metals.
Now you can make more money on different metals also, often the more common and lower value ones.
I also cite the market in tea and coffee, I've noticed the best profits are not always those two in the food stakes.
I think the demand/price for certain items is not high enough. Ever tried to buy HE suits? Only available in a few places, but bought nearly everywhere!
HE suits are way undervalued. There must be some government interference in the market price.

I think the market model is unrealistic anyway as you would always be able to buy anything listed even if it was at an unprofitable price.
Currently you can realistically only Buy or Sell and it seems that having sold, the stock in station remains at zero. You'd expect to be able to buy some back even if it was for more that you sold it.
Changing a market forces model is a dangerous thing, get it wrong and you break the whole thing.
Ask any government !!