Re: Casual players: Frontier Please Take Notice

[ziden]

Re: Casual players: Frontier Please Take Notice

A lot of the changes made so far to E.D. seem to have impacted hardcore players, and people who spend above average time playing your game. When I played your game I was in that group. I spent a lot of time trying to find the best and most efficient ways to progress and reach my goals. Furthermore, I wanted to do the things you marketed your game for in again the quickest and most efficient ways possible. "Play your way." What you don't realize is that you have utterly crippled casual/solo gamers and their abilities to progress through the daunting requirements this game offers.

Lately I've seen a trend that so many other game companies have taken, and it's a poor model which alienates a lot of the player base that doesn't bother to post on forums or interact with the community. This trend of slowing player progression (instead of increasing) and taking things out of the game which some deem "broken" is one of many.

What I request is that you consider the audience that does not spend 30 hours a week playing your game. Consider the casual players who after a month and a half of playing, they can only afford a cobra and/or type 6 (maybe.) Consider the mantra "Play Your Way." This is your marketing campaign and yet you are pigeon-holing people and patching this game like it's a MMORPG. This is not a MMORPG, this is a single player game with multiplayer elements.

Taking this into consideration, allow your player-base to truly "play their way" and progress through your game which currently is still very early in its development stages. Reward them for taking part and sticking with it when there is limited content. I say this as a person who can afford any ship in the game and as a person who has invested many hours into the game trying out all of the different things to do (mining excluded.)

There will always be outliers and I understand the desire to make your ship destruction actually mean something. It always will mean something to the casual player. It may mean a few hours worth of play to make it back. That could be half of a week's gameplay for them. If a player spent 30 hours in 3 days farming luxuries, that doesn't make it broken, that just makes the player an outlier.

Please don't turn your game into "Play your way, until we take it away."

 

[Defacto]

Uh I play less than a hour per day. I'm fine...
What are you going on about? Take notice about what?
I think the losses are fine too, maybe they should be somewhat harsher.

 

[madmann135]

There are many things about ED that hinder the experience and one of them is price tag.

I play off and on, when I first started I wanted the big ships and spent hours upon hours working to get one. Currently I have an ASP explorer and only an ASP, and I am working up to a type 7.
My main complaint is that everything is so blatantly expensive.
There is a limit to how much you can use price tag to limit its use, and I agree that ED is not an MMO but single player with some multiplayer aspects.

What's worse is that ED is doing its best to alienate the people. ONLY the hardcore play daily, the casual gamer which is the majority of the people, get the short end of the stick.
The weapons are illogically done, the ship systems are cookie cutters per class, the ships are OK but that's really it.

I really like Borderlands 2. The RNG weapons were a pain so someone made a save editor to help players. I spent hours in the save editor and in game just making weapons I liked and copying rare weapons for testing to see which ones I liked. Yes that was hacking but in the end the hacking I did was probable, the RNG could drop weapons similar to the ones I made but I saved grinding by using an outside source.

Elite Dangerous, is doing everything it can to stomp hacking in a game that is a weak hybrid of single player and multi-player. I will admit that I am a hacker in Single player games but how I hack differs from most, I limit my hacking to reduce grinding. I still want to enjoy the game for what it is worth but I don't want to burn out on the game and drop it for months before I decide I might play it again.

I think FD is stuck on the concept that space sim gamers are for the most part hardcore. Yes the space sim market is slim pickings but there are other games out there.

The one thing I like about games that ED fails at is Mods. If you don't like the game as is, mod it until you do. If that was possible I would not have many complaints with ED, in fact I would probably have none as I could fix everything I did no like. In addition Mods extend the game life by a LONG time. I still play Fallout new Vegas and Skyrim because of mods. Star Citizen is a beautiful game, it is not even out yet and modders are already itching to get a chance at it.

ED has a lot to offer but at the same time it is not offering much.

 

[gamingvirtue]

-snip-

This, pretty much. I play occasionally, and I only recently got my Asp. Which was painful, considering I had to sell my maxed Cobra to afford it and now I've got a much lower jump range.

It's annoying, mostly, because there's so much that could be done to mitigate or outright remove this problem, but most game developers would rather make sure the game provides
challenge to the elite few (pun not intended) rather than appealing to the wider demographic of more casual players, and this grinding nonsense is beyond boring.

For example, trade: Why is it that I can carry dozens of tons of valuable technology to people with no resources to make it, and yet the most I can buy with my profits is a Sidewinder?

If this was a Free-to-Play MMO, I could see that. I don't fault Warframe for parts of its grind because it's meant to make their Platinum premium currency a little more viable as an
option. And that's why this is so bogus, because I already paid 60 USD for this game, so why is there such an inane amount of grinding required? There's no alternative to cut the grind,
so it comes off almost as being Cookie Clicker without all of the auto-gen upgrades: absurd and not particularly worth the effort put in per hour.

And, mods. That's another thing that I could see this game doing well with if they were opened up as an option. I, personally, am a mod creator and I like to create things to keep
the games I play from getting old and boring, and yet...Elite Dangerous is quickly becoming a boring grind and a purchase I regret. It's a great game...for a few hours. After that,
I could get the same unending grind and cookie-cutter customisation in an F2P.

Don't get me wrong: this is probably the prettiest space delivery simulator I've ever played. I say this because exploration takes decades without a proper drive and combat is something
I haven't really got much interest in. But, that aside: if I'm trading expensive items, my earnings should be more than 300 credits/ton if the ships are going to be many millions of credits.
And if I deliver illicit goods to the station, the thought that I'm ever going to be selling for a loss is genuinely hilarious given the supposed difficulty of smuggling.

-----------

Short version: the game's kinda unbalanced in terms of how long it takes to do things, and the credit values for ship and module costs are absurd compared to commodity buy/sell prices.
Modding support would be amazing, even just in terms of interface or sound modifications, and even a HUD palette editor in-game would be a decent customisation option that isn't as
same-y as the skins are. And this game really isn't able to say you can "play your way" when you're extremely limited as to your options of "play 30+ hours/wk" or "progress at a painful
rate".

Please balance the game and add some basic features, Frontier. It'd help make the game less of a pay-to-grind event.

 

[Lufty]

SNIP

I have to concur. The grind is tough, slow going, and not expected in a full price non-F2P AAA title for $60. This morning, upon logging in after getting my first T6, I realized I had possibly 64+ hours remaining of trade grinding to get into an ASP. I started checking my Netflicks que to see if I had enough movies/entertainment to get me through that. I didn't.

It's kind of tough, I love the game, and possibly, I am at fault for jumping into the Type 6, thinking I could get into a mid level ship for returning to bounty hunting with quickly. I also know that development continues. However, I did wait for release, yet I get the sneeky feeling I am playing a F2P Beta (no offence please!)

 

[mossfoot]

The grind is tough, slow going, and not expected in a full price non-F2P AAA title for $60.

I expected it. I'd have been disappointed if it didn't take a long time to get the better ships. Severely disappointed. It's a matter of in game economics and how it pertains to a sense of immersion. Heck, I've spent the past 2-3 weeks exploring the Norma Arm and the Statue of LibertyNebula in a T6, hoping to have enough for an Asp when I get back. If that Asp comes too easily, it's not going to feel like a ship to me, just an upgrade.

I understand you don't feel that way, but when you say it's not expected in a full price game, really you need to consider that not everyone is expecting the same thing from AAA titles. As a rule I'm disappointed with AAA titles, and have been yearning for something like this for the better part of a decade.

It might not be expected, but that doesn't mean it's not desired.

 

[Lufty]

I expected it. I'd have been disappointed if it didn't take a long time to get the better ships. Severely disappointed. It's a matter of in game economics and how it pertains to a sense of immersion. Heck, I've spent the past 2-3 weeks exploring the Norma Arm and the Statue of LibertyNebula in a T6, hoping to have enough for an Asp when I get back. If that Asp comes too easily, it's not going to feel like a ship to me, just an upgrade.

I understand you don't feel that way, but when you say it's not expected in a full price game, really you need to consider that not everyone is expecting the same thing from AAA titles. As a rule I'm disappointed with AAA titles, and have been yearning for something like this for the better part of a decade.

It might not be expected, but that doesn't mean it's not desired.

You have some great points mossfoot. Perhaps a fast ship progression would be disappointing after all. However, I was expecting less sandbox perhaps, or less players with high level ships at this point in the game. Perhaps it is the Group I play with, and the fact that very few folks have anything less then an Anaconda that has me feeling left out in the cold of space.

I guess I should have expected this as there was a paid Alpha and Beta available...and I've arrived to late to the ballgame to participate. Perhaps with Wings comming up, there may be a better PVE or Wings groups to join that are open to players with Cobra/Asp level vessels. Here's crossing my fingers.

 

[mossfoot]

You have some great points mossfoot. Perhaps a fast ship progression would be disappointing after all. However, I was expecting less sandbox perhaps, or less players with high level capitol ships at this point in the game. Perhaps it is the Goup I play with, and the very few folks who have anything less then an Anaconda that has me feeling left out in the cold of space.

I guess I should expect less group action, or should have realized that buying in at release would leave me out in the cold of solo play.

Here's the thing - right now everyone is starting straight out of the gate, and some of us have had a head start (ie Gamma players), so there is this sense that for everyone to be on a level playing field we all need to have the capacity to get the same "stuff" as Joe next door.

It's not the case, and will be less so as time goes on. We're already seeing turnover. For example, some gamma players who are leaving for a variety of reasons. Some from frustration, but the fact is few people NEVER get burnt out from a game, Elite is the kind of game I traditionally binged and purged on, so far I have yet to do the latter on this version . Most will come back later, but you can't put it to a schedule, some might get the urge 3 months from now, others 6 months, etc...

At the same time there will be a steady trickle of new players as word of mouth spreads about Elite: Dangerous. There are some players who play Ironman mode and at any moment might be starting back with a Sidewinder and 1000 credits. And so on...

So increasingly there's going to be a mix of old and new players, casual players will eventually catch up with the dedicated fanatics (at least in terms of getting a single big ship like an Anaconda, while the fanatics probably have a 30 Anacondas, one for every day of the week ).

And here's the other thing - you don't NEED a bigger ship. Never have. Video games have taught you that the end game of whatever you're playing involves getting the best ship with the best equipment. But there are guys here who take out Pythons with Vipers, for example.

If you were buying yourself a sports car, would you only be satisfied if you could get a Lamborgini? Aren't there some really good mid-range sports cars out there? And what's wrong with taking a classic beaten up Corvette you bought used and fixing it up? Are you going to feel unsatisfied until you get that Lamborgini?

For myself, I'm flying a Type 6. Ugly spud, looks like a brick, but it's got a hell of a jump range, which means, even though it's designed for trading (and does a good job at that) it can be converted into a hella nice explorer ship without going all the way to an expensive Asp. Heck, there's a Type 6 Appreciate Thread here somewhere

Honestly, in the long run, I believe you'll appreciate the fact that ships aren't handed to you on a silver platter.

 

[Lufty]

SNIP
At the same time there will be a steady trickle of new players as word of mouth spreads about Elite: Dangerous. There are some players who play Ironman mode and at any moment might be starting back with a Sidewinder and 1000 credits. And so on...

So increasingly there's going to be a mix of old and new players, casual players will eventually catch up with the dedicated fanatics (at least in terms of getting a single big ship like an Anaconda, while the fanatics probably have a 30 Anacondas, one for every day of the week ).

And here's the other thing - you don't NEED a bigger ship. Never have. Video games have taught you that the end game of whatever you're playing involves getting the best ship with the best equipment. But there are guys here who take out Pythons with Vipers, for example.

If you were buying yourself a sports car, would you only be satisfied if you could get a Lamborgini? Aren't there some really good mid-range sports cars out there? And what's wrong with taking a classic beaten up Corvette you bought used and fixing it up? Are you going to feel unsatisfied until you get that Lamborgini?


Honestly, in the long run, I believe you'll appreciate the fact that ships aren't handed to you on a silver platter.

Good points again Mossfoot. I think that part of my issue (and possibly with other newcomers) is I may have gotten bitten by the "loot" bug (aka "ship" bug), which is natural for many games these days. Also, I jumped into a T6 trader without really taking into account I didn't like trading much, let alone spending every waking hour going back and forth between 2 or 3 stations. I believe I have discovered that straight grinding isn't for me. It never was, in WoW, EVE, RIFT, DayZ, heck, even in Diablo, grinding pretty much spelled the end for me on those titles.

However, I am not really a single-player gamer. The last single player game I played (and didn't finish) was Half-Life 2 for example. I hope that Wings has some great components to it to allow for new players with Cobra level ships an opportunity to explore group play, and enough folks around with that level ship to play with.

It's all in how you play, and what one enjoys. I think I personally met my match with trade grinding. End vent.

 

[madmann135]

I have to concur. The grind is tough, slow going, and not expected in a full price non-F2P AAA title for $60. This morning, upon logging in after getting my first T6, I realized I had possibly 64+ hours remaining of trade grinding to get into an ASP. I started checking my Netflicks que to see if I had enough movies/entertainment to get me through that. I didn't.

It's kind of tough, I love the game, and possibly, I am at fault for jumping into the Type 6, thinking I could get into a mid level ship for returning to bounty hunting with quickly. I also know that development continues. However, I did wait for release, yet I get the sneeky feeling I am playing a F2P Beta (no offence please!)

I am more at place as a researcher and data gatherer. I feel that the progress of ED is artificially inflated in order to slow it down.
Do not forget that for every ship, you are practically paying around two to three times as much as the cost of the ship in order to get something that will operate nicely.
That combined with expensive ships and the difficulty of the game gives the game a Free to play feel.

This is something I did in a few minutes.

Ship price, tonnage, and cost per ton
Sidewinder - Tonnage: 25. Chassis Cost: 32,000. Credits per ton: 1,280
Hauler - Tonnage: 14. Chassis Cost: 52,720. Credits per ton: 3,765.
Adder - Tonnage: 35. Chassis Cost: 87,808. Credits per ton: 2,580.8.
Eagle - Tonnage: 50. Chassis Cost: 44,800. Credits per ton: 896.
Viper - Tonnage: 60. Chassis Cost: 142,931. Credits per ton: 2,382.2.
Cobra- Tonnage: 180. Chassis Cost: 379,718. Credits per ton: 219.5.
Type6 - Tonnage: 155. Chassis Cost: 1,045,945. Credits per ton: 6,748.

ASP - Tonnage: 280. Chassis Cost: 6,661,153. Credits per ton: 23,789.8.
Type 7- Tonnage: 420. Chassis Cost: 17,472,252. Credits per ton: 41,600.6.
Anaconda - Tonnage: 400. Chassis Cost: 146,969,451. Credits per ton: 349,927.3.
Federal Dropship - Tonnage: 580. Chassis Cost: 37,814,205. Credits per ton: 65,196.9.
Imperial Clipper - Tonnage: 400. Chassis Cost: 22,295,860. Credits per ton: 55,739.6.
Type 9 - Tonnage: 1,000. Chassis Cost: 76,555,842. Credits per ton: 76,555.8.
Orca - Tonnage: 580. Chassis Cost: 48,539,887. Credits per ton: 83,689.
Python - Tonnage: 350. Chassis Cost: 56,978,179. Credits per ton: 162,794.8.

Gold: Galactic average 9,742 per ton
Palladium: Galactic average 13,527 per ton
Platinum: Galactic average 18,814 per ton

I am greatly annoyed and disturbed that there are ships that are more expensive than their weight in gold, platinum and palladium.


Some may argue that if a ship is to cheap to get it will not feel like an accomplishment when received but an upgrade. I will counter with this.
If you want to keep your ship for any reason, for example sentimentality, you will have a hard time doing so.
BUT on the other hand if the ships are to expensive you will become discouraged in getting them, because of this I do not even want to try to get an Anaconda. I want to fly one but that is it. As a gaming strategy I feel that is doomed to failure ESPECIALLY for a game that you paid for.
As is I am wondering if I should not have bought the game because I can not fly the ships I want. I do not care for that blasted "Competition for Elite" status.
I do not care if it feels like an upgrade, I got the game to fly the ships, all of them. I want a hanger full of said ships and fly what ever ship I feel like flying when I feel like flying it. As it stands I am for a lack of a better work, Stuck in my current ship and that is what really discourages me from continuing the game.

The X series was more forgiving X rebirth, X3 AP, X3 TC, the ships were expensive but you had numerous ways to get revenue, sometimes if you played your cards correctly, automatic revenue. Elite Dangerous... disappointment. Even thinking about it upsets me.

In many games, if you hate grinding, like me, you could hack the game and get more credits. I will admit I have done that, specifically because I would become disinterested in the game very quickly if I had to grind and grind for a peace of equipment.

If the ships are designed properly, then they will balance each other out. A fast ship for when you want to move quickly, a ship with a long jump range when you need to travel, ...large cargo for trading, combat specific ships and fittings, etc.
As is I feel that ED's greatest weakness is Fronteer. Their art and design direction is fine BUT their gameplay direction is misdirected. I paid for a game where I could fly nice ships (plural), and even the big ships, as is ED feels like a free to play game, therefore my money feels wasted.

 

[Kosmetas]

When the game is too hard for your casual play style or things cost too much... you are playing the wrong game. Find something that best fits your style and play time. Dictating changes for easier casual play because the game is too hard for you only makes ED too easy for so many others.

 

[mossfoot]

The X series was more forgiving X rebirth, X3 AP, X3 TC, the ships were expensive but you had numerous ways to get revenue, sometimes if you played your cards correctly, automatic revenue. Elite Dangerous... disappointment. Even thinking about it upsets me.

In many games, if you hate grinding, like me, you could hack the game and get more credits. I will admit I have done that, specifically because I would become disinterested in the game very quickly if I had to grind and grind for a peace of equipment.

If the ships are designed properly, then they will balance each other out. A fast ship for when you want to move quickly, a ship with a long jump range when you need to travel, ...large cargo for trading, combat specific ships and fittings, etc.
As is I feel that ED's greatest weakness is Fronteer. Their art and design direction is fine BUT their gameplay direction is misdirected. I paid for a game where I could fly nice ships (plural), and even the big ships, as is ED feels like a free to play game, therefore my money feels wasted.

Hey, I loved the X series of games, especially X3's run. But the problem with it was that really the only way to make money was to start a shipping empire to make it for you. Get a trading ship, trading computer, and let it do the work for you while you tool around doing what you do until it's made enough for you to buy what you want... which in my case was often more trading ships with trading computers (I didn't go for the whole space station thing). Got me a Class 6 Corvette that way. If I had been forced to use only my own ship to afford a Nova, it would have taken forever. In fact, I got my Pirate Nova by forcing a pilot to eject as I recall. Good times, took a while to repair - can't wait till something similar is implemented in Elite.

It's fine if you think Frontier's gameplay direction is misdirected, but I disagree, as to many others. You CAN fly nice ships (plural) and there are more on the way throughout the year. If you want it all NOW, then I can't help you. This isn't that game and was never going to be.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

When the game is too hard for your casual play style or things cost too much... you are playing the wrong game. Find something that best fits your style and play time. Dictating changes for easier casual play because the game is too hard for you only makes ED too easy for so many others.

I personally think "hard" is the wrong word. It's a matter of expectations. People expecting to be able to afford a fleet of ships within a short period of time. That's just the wrong mindset to have, unless your also plan on having a fleet of cars in your driveway like Tony Stark. I would think a casual player should be thinking the way a casual driver does, maybe aspire to own a couple of cars - one for practical use, and one to show off. Maybe a truck for work.

Heck I've been playing since January and I have a grand total of 2 ships - a Cobra and a T6. That's it. Why do I need one of every ship? I'll get them as I can afford them, sure, but this Pokemon mentality is just not what the game is about.

 

[gamingvirtue]

When the game is too hard for your casual play style or things cost too much... you are playing the wrong game. Find something that best fits your style and play time. Dictating changes for easier casual play because the game is too hard for you only makes ED too easy for so many others.

It's simply not that the game is too hard. It's that the game becomes too repetitive and progresses too slowly. If it were hard, one could simply acquire the skills required to circumvent the difficulty. There is no skill available for circumventing inflation of time or pricing.

Sure, anyone here could simply "be patient", but the thing about casual play is that we're already personally extending the timescale, and it makes an already inflated waiting period into a tormentingly long delay for something that shouldn't, theoretically, take that long.

Also, I have higher hopes for the game than you, it would seem, as you appear to be conflating the separate problems of gameplay difficulty and the inclusion of grinding as though they're the same thing or expected of one another. And that's simply not the case, as, bringing back a previous example, Warframe can point out. I have literally everything I want in the game, and can get any of the new items within hours or days. The game isn't difficult at all, which is a disappointment to me. But that doesn't nullify the grinding that purposely inflates the timespan between finding the item and getting the item, in addition to the crafting delay if you don't want to buy their premium currency to rush it.

Elite: Dangerous doesn't need a grind to be difficult or challenging. It doesn't need purposeful inflation of prices. It needs some proper balance of the mechanics, because everyone flying an Anaconda is going to make the Cobra pilot a happy individual, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Every ship needs a purpose, but not necessarily a painfully restrictive price tag.

Everyone paid $60 for this. That should, theoretically, circumvent the grind and allow you to play what you like and learn as you go. That you have to sit around and spend a week to afford a freaking FSD is ludicrous and doesn't add difficulty. It just adds time that you could be spending actually getting to "Play Your Way", since that's what they love to bang on about.

 

[madmann135]

It's simply not that the game is too hard. It's that the game becomes too repetitive and progresses too slowly. If it were hard, one could simply acquire the skills required to circumvent the difficulty. There is no skill available for circumventing inflation of time or pricing.

Sure, anyone here could simply "be patient", but the thing about casual play is that we're already personally extending the timescale, and it makes an already inflated waiting period into a tormentingly long delay for something that shouldn't, theoretically, take that long.

Also, I have higher hopes for the game than you, it would seem, as you appear to be conflating the separate problems of gameplay difficulty and the inclusion of grinding as though they're the same thing or expected of one another. And that's simply not the case, as, bringing back a previous example, Warframe can point out. I have literally everything I want in the game, and can get any of the new items within hours or days. The game isn't difficult at all, which is a disappointment to me. But that doesn't nullify the grinding that purposely inflates the timespan between finding the item and getting the item, in addition to the crafting delay if you don't want to buy their premium currency to rush it.

Elite: Dangerous doesn't need a grind to be difficult or challenging. It doesn't need purposeful inflation of prices. It needs some proper balance of the mechanics, because everyone flying an Anaconda is going to make the Cobra pilot a happy individual, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Every ship needs a purpose, but not necessarily a painfully restrictive price tag.

Everyone paid $60 for this. That should, theoretically, circumvent the grind and allow you to play what you like and learn as you go. That you have to sit around and spend a week to afford a freaking FSD is ludicrous and doesn't add difficulty. It just adds time that you could be spending actually getting to "Play Your Way", since that's what they love to bang on about.

I have nothing to add.
We paid for the game, skip the artificial grind.

Hey, I loved the X series of games, especially X3's run. But the problem with it was that really the only way to make money was to start a shipping empire to make it for you. Get a trading ship, trading computer, and let it do the work for you while you tool around doing what you do until it's made enough for you to buy what you want... which in my case was often more trading ships with trading computers (I didn't go for the whole space station thing). Got me a Class 6 Corvette that way. If I had been forced to use only my own ship to afford a Nova, it would have taken forever. In fact, I got my Pirate Nova by forcing a pilot to eject as I recall. Good times, took a while to repair - can't wait till something similar is implemented in Elite.

I was able to skip some of that mid game with a few mods, namely hiring and training trade pilots for my ships.
My last game of X3 AP was my favorite because I made a lot of stations and a trade line. I was raking in a million every 10-15 minutes from trade alone. That funded my campaign against Xenon. I had numerous cruisers, dreadnaughts, frigates, destroyers, etc at my command and I was controlling them from a corvette. I only brought out my carriers for when I wanted to goof around.
...then things went out of control and I had a problem staying under the 2 billion cap.

 

[Defacto]

I am more at place as a researcher and data gatherer. I feel that the progress of ED is artificially inflated in order to slow it down.
Do not forget that for every ship, you are practically paying around two to three times as much as the cost of the ship in order to get something that will operate nicely.
That combined with expensive ships and the difficulty of the game gives the game a Free to play feel.

This is something I did in a few minutes.


I am greatly annoyed and disturbed that there are ships that are more expensive than their weight in gold, platinum and palladium.


Some may argue that if a ship is to cheap to get it will not feel like an accomplishment when received but an upgrade. I will counter with this.
If you want to keep your ship for any reason, for example sentimentality, you will have a hard time doing so.
BUT on the other hand if the ships are to expensive you will become discouraged in getting them, because of this I do not even want to try to get an Anaconda. I want to fly one but that is it. As a gaming strategy I feel that is doomed to failure ESPECIALLY for a game that you paid for.
As is I am wondering if I should not have bought the game because I can not fly the ships I want. I do not care for that blasted "Competition for Elite" status.
I do not care if it feels like an upgrade, I got the game to fly the ships, all of them. I want a hanger full of said ships and fly what ever ship I feel like flying when I feel like flying it. As it stands I am for a lack of a better work, Stuck in my current ship and that is what really discourages me from continuing the game.

The X series was more forgiving X rebirth, X3 AP, X3 TC, the ships were expensive but you had numerous ways to get revenue, sometimes if you played your cards correctly, automatic revenue. Elite Dangerous... disappointment. Even thinking about it upsets me.

In many games, if you hate grinding, like me, you could hack the game and get more credits. I will admit I have done that, specifically because I would become disinterested in the game very quickly if I had to grind and grind for a peace of equipment.

If the ships are designed properly, then they will balance each other out. A fast ship for when you want to move quickly, a ship with a long jump range when you need to travel, ...large cargo for trading, combat specific ships and fittings, etc.
As is I feel that ED's greatest weakness is Fronteer. Their art and design direction is fine BUT their gameplay direction is misdirected. I paid for a game where I could fly nice ships (plural), and even the big ships, as is ED feels like a free to play game, therefore my money feels wasted.

Palladium doesn't cost 100 times the cost of sterilized poop in this game. If there's anything your investigation shows, then it is that the price of high-value goods are way too low.

I think that earning money needs to be harder. The fastest ways of earning money should be the most risk-filled. If this would be the case, I think the grinding would be reduced, not that I've ever ''grinded'' in this game.

 

[Susimetsa]

Uh I play less than a hour per day. I'm fine...
What are you going on about? Take notice about what?
I think the losses are fine too, maybe they should be somewhat harsher.

I think "casual" refers to those who play much less than 1 hour per day. I, for example, haven't had a chance to play in 3 weeks and don't foresee another chance until the end of April or so... (ok, that may be even less than an average casual gamer, but the point remains).

 

[Herik]

I expected it. I'd have been disappointed if it didn't take a long time to get the better ships. Severely disappointed. It's a matter of in game economics and how it pertains to a sense of immersion. Heck, I've spent the past 2-3 weeks exploring the Norma Arm and the Statue of LibertyNebula in a T6, hoping to have enough for an Asp when I get back. If that Asp comes too easily, it's not going to feel like a ship to me, just an upgrade.

I understand you don't feel that way, but when you say it's not expected in a full price game, really you need to consider that not everyone is expecting the same thing from AAA titles. As a rule I'm disappointed with AAA titles, and have been yearning for something like this for the better part of a decade.

It might not be expected, but that doesn't mean it's not desired.

Good, good, good! +1; I agree with every word of (this) post.

 

[Herik]

Yes Frontier, do take notice; I and many like me play this game as a single player game (Solo). For me this means I don't care if you ramp up hard core content, give all kinds of perks in one way or another to the higher end players. As long as I have my Solo game/Mobius group, and the promised 'expansions' I've paid for, I'll be happy.

 

[gamingvirtue]

I think that earning money needs to be harder. The fastest ways of earning money should be the most risk-filled. If this would be the case, I think the grinding would be reduced, not that I've ever ''grinded'' in this game.

I'm inclined to agree with you, but simply adding danger doesn't eliminate the grind. If I end up getting interdicted next to a sun and a capital ship jumps in on top of me, it's still a grind as the route doesn't change and all that's been done is more difficulty being added to break up the monotony and yet, add MORE time, contributing to the feeling of wasted time and effort.

If it were less of an exponential progression of prices (not saying that is accurate, just that it seems like that) versus a very linear progression of earnings, it would be more efficient in the long run.

Specifically: increase the difficulty and increase the payout as you climb the ladder to Elite status. Combat is not strictly the only thing that difficulty can be added to. Exploration, as of its current implementation, would be difficult to add difficulty to, though...any more than it already has, that is. But when I'm trading rares and making huge profits versus smuggling at a loss (which I don't understand, given demand of smuggled goods should automatically be higher as a result of their difficulty to obtain), the idea that there's anything difficult about running cargo back and forth is silly at best.

Specify routes, make smuggling more lucrative, add perishable goods with timers, with the value changing based on the time remaining...the economy isn't dynamic enough on its own to justify the lack of variation in its available options, and adding some actual options to it would be welcome and fun, breaking up the monotony without just resorting to "whoops, a pirate" all the time.

Like, add some options. I'm gonna keep saying this because it's going to keep being valid: It's advertised as "Play Your Way" and the options scream "Play This Specific Way".

Good, good, good! +1; I agree with every word of (this) post.

That's just the thing. You'll agree and this is a desired thing for you, but others will not and that doesn't make their desires any less valid, especially with the tagline I've quoted six or seven times in this thread so far. I can't play this all the time. I actually can't play it very much at all, given my daily obligations. And yet, I'm not sure why I'm being penalised for not being able to play by being restricted to small ships unless I save up for a year.

It's not a fun thing to be endlessly held back in a game simply because one's life gets in the way. Games are supposed to be fun, and I appreciate a challenge, but I don't appreciate my time being wasted or treated like it doesn't matter unless it's an inordinate amount of time. Because I got lucky and some of my friends showed me a particularly lucrative route, I've been able to move into my Asp in the span of two months instead of maybe five or six. And I had to sell my favourite ship to be able to afford this one, leaving me feeling a little cheated given how much I invested in the other and nothing carries over at all.

A game that holds you back from being able to do what you want to do in it is basically real life, and I already have enough of that. Games are meant to be an escape from, rather than a reinforcement of, my work week.

This game is basically a waste of my $60 at this point, because it's essentially another 9-5, and I don't particularly need that.

Yes Frontier, do take notice; I and many like me play this game as a single player game (Solo). For me this means I don't care if you ramp up hard core content, give all kinds of perks in one way or another to the higher end players. As long as I have my Solo game/Mobius group, and the promised 'expansions' I've paid for, I'll be happy.

Yes, as do I. Public gaming is not my cup of tea as I'd rather not be blasted out of the sky before I can do anything just because I'm learning a game. The point remains, though: the progression does not provide players with very little time to play any kind of break, and seems almost designed to keep casual players and those of us with real-life obligations from progressing.

Maybe introducing an automatic discount system that ticks up at fractions of a percent per day the game isn't played, even? Persisting and gaining value each time a cumulative 24 hours goes unplayed until a purchase is made in-game? Even set a cap, but good god...this game needs something to add some value for those that can't play so frequently.

 

[zzzornbringer]

When the game is too hard for your casual play style or things cost too much... you are playing the wrong game. Find something that best fits your style and play time. Dictating changes for easier casual play because the game is too hard for you only makes ED too easy for so many others.

generally true but if the majority of the playerbase consists of casuals that can't afford this stuff, you may want to reconsider this sentiment.

this does not mean make anacondas, clippers etc. super cheap. i consider those ships to be flown only by the most involved players. think legendaries in vanilla wow. but if you are like me, who started a new character in december, playing almost daily for a few hours and still only have 10 million credits in total (this included my current ships+equipment), you may want to reconsider if there are actually enough options for the 10 million mark.

i mean, maybe i would be fine with the current price model but there aren't currently (this gets better with 1.2) enough ways to consistently get credits. there's only trading. but, i don't know, trading in game feels almost like actual work and i don't know if that's a good thing. taking vanilla wow again... farming high level crafting materials actually felt like work. you do the same things over and over again for weeks and then after a month or even longer, you get your reward, just to do it all over again.

there are a lot of other games out there and there are people that don't have time to spend several hours a day to play all those games. so, it's kind of hard to find the sweet spot. it's not that easy to say that elite is supposed to fit into a small niche where you actually have to play for a long time to achieve something. at the end of the day, you have to pay salaries for the developers. obviously, you need players to be able to do this. hence, you need to attract more than just a small niche while at the same time not making it too casual to attract all the mainstream players.