This Post is al ll about having better Limpet Controllers
(I already posted this, but can not find it, and DigThat32's new video -> "10 Most Begged for New Features in Elite Dangerous…Dear FDev -!- Elite Hot Tea" just reminded me about this, I wanted to link my thread in the comments, but could not find it, it seems to be lost, so I just repost it here. Sorry for the double-post.)
The Following things I had in mind while re-designing the Limpet-Controllers:
Here we go:
STATUS QUO:
DOWNSITES OF CURRENT LIMPET CONTROLLERS
TYPES OF LIMPET CONTROLLERS CURRENTLY IN GAME + WHAT EQUIPMENT THEY NEED TO FULFILL THEIR JOB:
(Roughly grouped by similarity of function; I assume that Refuel Limpets carry fuel and Repair Limpets carry some spare parts/materials, while Decontamination-Limpets do not)
Cathegory A: Fly out, grab something and bring it back:
TYPES OF LIMPETS: One for everything.
So I assume (suggest, rather) all Limpets weigh 1 ton, consisting of:
0.5 tons fuel (Limpet comes with this amount of fuel, but the tank can hold up to 1 ton for refueling operations)
0.15 tons the Limpet-Hull + Engines + Controls (not much more then current real life rockets, where fuel is the major part of the rockets mass)
0.35 tons for all tools needed for all the jobs, including:
MY SUGGESTIONS:
DISCLAIMER: As mentiones before, all the changes suggested only work together in conjunction; so do not look at one feature isolated of the others, please.
0.: Keep the current Limpet Controllers in Game as Legacy Controllers
(Another option would be to allow players to break them down to the current Controllers; so a Class 5 Controller would result into 3x Class 1 Controllers of the new kind, thus saving all modifications made by engineers)
1.: Break down all Limpet Controllers to only Class 1 (Rating A-E):
A.) max. Range of the Limpets is determined by the rating of the current Limpet-Controller (as per current min/max-stats across all Collector Limpet-Controllers: 2380 meters for A-Rating, 800 meters for E-Rating)
B.) Hacking-time is determined by the rating of the Limpet-Controller (as per current min/max-stats across all Hatch-Breaker Limpet-Controllers: min. 11 sec for A-Rating, max. 42 sec. for E-Rating)
C.) Hatch breaking-time is determined by the rating of the Limpet-Controller (as per current min/max-stats across all Recon Limpet-Controllers: min. 10 sec for A-Rating, max. 22 sec. for E-Rating)
D.) each Limpet Controllers will have a Power Draw according to their rating
E.) each Limpet Controller will come with one Limpet in Stock; this results in the following change:
F.) each Limpet Controllers weight is: (weigth of the Limpet controller (current Stats)) +( weight of the Limpet) - so in general the weight of current Class 1 Controllers + Limpet-weight; size will stay at 1 slot.
G.) Limpets will always navigate around obstacles, avoiding destruction this way (if this is to complicated to implement: just switch of collision detection for the Limpets (and their Cargo)). This change is VITAL for my suggestions to work as a whole, as you will not be able to carry spare Limpets in your Cargo Hold anymore!!!... (more on that later)
H.) Lifetime is normalized across the board, and depends on the fuel consumtion (up to 1 hour for idling, down to 0.5 hours when constantly moving/carrying materials)
I.) Limpets will refuel at the players ship when running low on fuel (more on that later)
J.) Repair-Limpets running low on spare-parts/materials will rearm at the players ship (more on that later)
K.) All active Limpets will return to the Mothership and be stored in their respective controllers, when:
N.) Each Limpet Controller will be an individual Controller, as far as Fire-Groups are concerned
O.) All Limpets that currently attach to something (like a hatchet or an asteroid), now will just detach and move to the next target, if you "fire" the related Limpet Controller again
Here is the "later" I spoke about:
2.: Create a "Limpet Controller Array" (name suggested by other players, who#s names I forgot, but thanks, anyway) of variing size (1,2,3.. up to size 9)
A.) these will be uses to hold the actual Limpet Controllers
B.) they will replace a Cargo-Rack of the respective size and weight
C.) they use lighter, but more expensive materials and so replacing a Cargo-Rack of the respective size adds no extra weight (just like a Cargo rack has no extra weight, only it's content has)
D.) they have slots according to their Class, in the same way Cargo Racks do have Cargo-Slots : Class 1 = 1 Slots, Class 2 = 2 Slots, Class 3 = 4 Slots, Class 4 = 8 Slots, etc. - effectively doublying per size.)
E.) BUT: they can only control 4 different TYPES of Limpet-Controllers, and only up to 8 of each typ (so 32 is the maximum,), regardless of size... even if you use a Class 8 Limpet Array.
F.) so if you want to use all 8 types of controllers in one ship, you need to install at least 2 x Class 3 Limpet Arrays
G.) Each ship can only have 2 Limpet Controller Arrays (exceptions up to 4 Limpet Controllers Arrays can be made for individual ships, to add more character to those ships; this should be done for ships that aren't very popular, to boost them - so not on Ships like the Python or Anaconda!)
H.) Do NOT make it so that a Limpet Array of Class 3 will only hold 2 Limpet Controllers, as they are Class 1 and so only take up one slot each! Class 3 Limpet Array = up to 4 Controllers! (I have other features in mind to use up space on the Limpet Array, and also putting a hard cap on them... just read on)
3.: Additional things a Limpet Controller Array can also hold:
A.) Limpet Fuel Tank (basically the fueltanks you can alread buy for your ship)
-- max. size is what ever amount of space is available on the Limpet Array, based on current Fuel Tank sizes.
-- this is the only tank the Limpets can use to refuel
-- used to avoid refueling the Limpets from the ships main tank and thereby accidentaly draining it
-- fuel can be manually transfered from the ships main tank to the Limpet Fuel Tank - (and maybe vice versa?) - at the players own risk.
-- will be filled while Fuel-Scooping, AFTER main fuel tank has been filled up
-- also needed for Fuel Limpets to work, as they will return for the players ship to refuel (I am not sure if they should just dock - or fly back to the target until it's tank is full -> your call)
B.) Spare Limpet Rack
-- here extra Limpets can be stored, in case you lose current ones (which should only happen with Hatch Breaker Limpets or active Limpets when the players ship has closed the Cargo Hatch and flyes away before the limpets can return and dock; you can still create new Limpets if needed with synthesis, anyway)
C.) Spare-Parts/Materials-Storage: in case Rapair-Limpets use Spare-Parts/Materials for repairing Ships, it needs to rearm at one point. This can be done here. Storage itself can be rearmed in the same way (and using the same materials?) as an AFMU (Auto Field-Maintenance Unit)
4.: EXAMPLE OF THE HARDWARE:
Reminder: Class 4 = 8x Class 1, same as a 4E-Cargo-Rack is 8x a 1E-Cargo-Rack - do not confuse Cargo-Capacity (16 tons) with the amount of Class 1 Slots (8 Slots á 2 tons).
(Also: keep in mind the Limpet Controller is not much more then a device for storing, refueling and controlling a Limpet; radio-communication will be handled by the Ships sensors and comms array, as the Limpet Controller is an internal modul, anyway. Things like decoding will be done by the Recon Limpet-Controller, though, as the Limpet is not spcecialized in this kind of job, but the Controller is)
AN EXAMPLE OF A CLASS 4 LIMPET CONTROLLER ARRAY, OUTFITTET WITH MULTIPLE MODULES:
[ Class 4 Limpet-Controller-Array ]
|- 1A Collector Limpet Controller (including 1 Limpet)
|- 1A Collector Limpet Controller (including 1 Limpet)
|- 1B Fuel Transfer Limpet Controller (including 1 Limpet)
|- 1D Repair Limpet Controller (including 1 Limpet)
|- 1C Fuel-Tank (Capacity 2 Tons) for refueling Limpets
|- 1E Spare Limpet Rack (1 Rack holds 2 Limpets, just like Cargo Racks)*
|- 1F Spare-Parts/Materials -Storage for Repair-Limpets
|- (EMPTY; put what ever else Limpet-Related you can come up with in here)
*This will only come into play when the player either screws up, or a Limpet used as a Hatch Breaker got shot down; this Rack should be available as an option regardless if you decide to allow players to continue storing Limpets in their regular Cargo Hold and use them from there; I just thought this would be a nice change and give the players more options, should they use a larger Limpet Array then needed and end up with dead space due to the limitations suggested by me
5.: REASONING AND EXCEPTIONS:
I suggest that Limept Controllers will be Class 1, use up 1 slot and weigh as much as the current controllers plus the Limpet for a reason:
So that smaller ships can use them without becomming useless as a whole.
Thats why I also suggest:
Of cause the caps suggested by me, both for Limpet Controller Arrays and Limpet Controllers ON the Limpet Controller Array, can be changed.
But I would like to see this as a way to balance ships, by allowing certain ships to have higher caps, when it comes to the amount of Limpet Controller Arrays they can mount - not as a way to hold the players back.
Some personal remarks:
One of the ideas behind this suggestion, as I already said, was to promote the use of smaller ships, as you currently need to carry a lot of spare Limpets with you, which on the smaller ships you just can't.
I personally have set up a lot of ships based on Limpet-related gameplay, and they are basically all either ASP Explorers, Pythons or Anacondas - ships that are already along the most used ships in the game.
I want to use my Hauler for Collecting Materials and hacking, or an ASP Scout, or an Eagle!.. or an Adder! Heck, maybe even a Sidewinder! O_O
... but currently I would have to rearm like every 5 minutes, so I use an ASP Explorer or a Python... like virtually everyone else, who wants to be efficient.
And all the time, my smaller ships - ships that were designed with a lot of love and passion by some designers at Frontier - just sit in the hanger. And the only thing they collect is dust. :-/
Thanks for reading!
Commander Solko, out.
o7
EDIT:
Commander Exeider has also expressed his thoughts about re-designing Limpets in an own threat.
I find it very interesting, as he touches subjects I have neglected.
If you want to read it, too, you can find his threat here: -> Unified Limpet Drone Control System and Drone System Revamp
(I already posted this, but can not find it, and DigThat32's new video -> "10 Most Begged for New Features in Elite Dangerous…Dear FDev -!- Elite Hot Tea" just reminded me about this, I wanted to link my thread in the comments, but could not find it, it seems to be lost, so I just repost it here. Sorry for the double-post.)
The Following things I had in mind while re-designing the Limpet-Controllers:
- some new features that make use of Limpets much easier and logical
- some new and specific limitations to put "caps" on some of the changes, so they are also balanced in use
- better usabillity for smaller Ships, while not making Limpet-Controllers overpowered in larger Ships
- better player experience
Here we go:
STATUS QUO:
DOWNSITES OF CURRENT LIMPET CONTROLLERS
- they are only available in Class 1, 3, 5, 7, etc.
- they effectively quadruple in size and mass each time, but not in functionality.
- so any Limpet Controllers larger then Class 1 are worse then taking just multiple Class 1 Controllers, Size and weight wise.
- they only advantage in taking larger Controllers over taking multiple smaller ones is usually range (why?), they work faster (Hatched Breaker, Recon), Repair more (which should be determined by the Limpet, not the Limpet Controller) , and Lifetime (Collectors; which again should be determined by the Limpet, not the Limpet Controller)
- Limpets explode when out of fuel
- Limpets can not navigate obstacles and explode when trying to fly through them, dropping their cargo
- Limpets explode after collecting an item a player had targeted, while deploying the Limpet (why?)
- Using any type of Limpet Controller needs a lot of spare limpets in the cargohold, making smaller Ships virtually useless for any type of Limpet-Controller (if extended operations are in mind)
TYPES OF LIMPET CONTROLLERS CURRENTLY IN GAME + WHAT EQUIPMENT THEY NEED TO FULFILL THEIR JOB:
(Roughly grouped by similarity of function; I assume that Refuel Limpets carry fuel and Repair Limpets carry some spare parts/materials, while Decontamination-Limpets do not)
Cathegory A: Fly out, grab something and bring it back:
- Collector (= standard-functionality of every Limpet, apparently)
- Research (this Limpet would need something to cut out a piece of a Thargoid)
- Hatch Breaker (since the Hatch is not destroyed: this needs something to gently manipulate the Hatch)
- Prospector (this needs equipment to do a seismic survey)
- Recon (this needs equipment to attacht to and interact with a Data-Link)
- Decontamination (this needs devices that can remove the contamination; I assume no decontamination-agent is used, since overheating your ship ahs the same effect.
- Fuel Transfer (this needs extra fuel; probably from the Limpets own Tank)
- Repair (this needs devices that can repair a Ship; if NOT using spare-parts/material this would be Cathegory B, not C.)
TYPES OF LIMPETS: One for everything.
So I assume (suggest, rather) all Limpets weigh 1 ton, consisting of:
0.5 tons fuel (Limpet comes with this amount of fuel, but the tank can hold up to 1 ton for refueling operations)
0.15 tons the Limpet-Hull + Engines + Controls (not much more then current real life rockets, where fuel is the major part of the rockets mass)
0.35 tons for all tools needed for all the jobs, including:
- some kind of device that allowes grabbing on to something, as each Limpet is is capable of this function in some way
- spare parts/materials in case the Limpet is used for Repair-Operations
MY SUGGESTIONS:
DISCLAIMER: As mentiones before, all the changes suggested only work together in conjunction; so do not look at one feature isolated of the others, please.
0.: Keep the current Limpet Controllers in Game as Legacy Controllers
(Another option would be to allow players to break them down to the current Controllers; so a Class 5 Controller would result into 3x Class 1 Controllers of the new kind, thus saving all modifications made by engineers)
1.: Break down all Limpet Controllers to only Class 1 (Rating A-E):
A.) max. Range of the Limpets is determined by the rating of the current Limpet-Controller (as per current min/max-stats across all Collector Limpet-Controllers: 2380 meters for A-Rating, 800 meters for E-Rating)
B.) Hacking-time is determined by the rating of the Limpet-Controller (as per current min/max-stats across all Hatch-Breaker Limpet-Controllers: min. 11 sec for A-Rating, max. 42 sec. for E-Rating)
C.) Hatch breaking-time is determined by the rating of the Limpet-Controller (as per current min/max-stats across all Recon Limpet-Controllers: min. 10 sec for A-Rating, max. 22 sec. for E-Rating)
D.) each Limpet Controllers will have a Power Draw according to their rating
E.) each Limpet Controller will come with one Limpet in Stock; this results in the following change:
F.) each Limpet Controllers weight is: (weigth of the Limpet controller (current Stats)) +( weight of the Limpet) - so in general the weight of current Class 1 Controllers + Limpet-weight; size will stay at 1 slot.
G.) Limpets will always navigate around obstacles, avoiding destruction this way (if this is to complicated to implement: just switch of collision detection for the Limpets (and their Cargo)). This change is VITAL for my suggestions to work as a whole, as you will not be able to carry spare Limpets in your Cargo Hold anymore!!!... (more on that later)
H.) Lifetime is normalized across the board, and depends on the fuel consumtion (up to 1 hour for idling, down to 0.5 hours when constantly moving/carrying materials)
I.) Limpets will refuel at the players ship when running low on fuel (more on that later)
J.) Repair-Limpets running low on spare-parts/materials will rearm at the players ship (more on that later)
K.) All active Limpets will return to the Mothership and be stored in their respective controllers, when:
- they are recalled
- if there is no more fuel or materials to refuel or rearm them with
- the Mother-Ship is about to jump away
- the Mother-Ship is exceeding their max. range (assuming the Limpets CAN go faster in an emergency, but they will abort what ever task they are doing rigth now)
- the Limpet travels to far away (like when a Prospector-Limpet is shot into the black instead of into an asteroid)
- "Collect my target first, the return and dock"
- "Collect my target first, then collect anything in range"
- "Collect anything in range, do not prioritise on my target"
N.) Each Limpet Controller will be an individual Controller, as far as Fire-Groups are concerned
O.) All Limpets that currently attach to something (like a hatchet or an asteroid), now will just detach and move to the next target, if you "fire" the related Limpet Controller again
Here is the "later" I spoke about:
2.: Create a "Limpet Controller Array" (name suggested by other players, who#s names I forgot, but thanks, anyway) of variing size (1,2,3.. up to size 9)
A.) these will be uses to hold the actual Limpet Controllers
B.) they will replace a Cargo-Rack of the respective size and weight
C.) they use lighter, but more expensive materials and so replacing a Cargo-Rack of the respective size adds no extra weight (just like a Cargo rack has no extra weight, only it's content has)
D.) they have slots according to their Class, in the same way Cargo Racks do have Cargo-Slots : Class 1 = 1 Slots, Class 2 = 2 Slots, Class 3 = 4 Slots, Class 4 = 8 Slots, etc. - effectively doublying per size.)
E.) BUT: they can only control 4 different TYPES of Limpet-Controllers, and only up to 8 of each typ (so 32 is the maximum,), regardless of size... even if you use a Class 8 Limpet Array.
F.) so if you want to use all 8 types of controllers in one ship, you need to install at least 2 x Class 3 Limpet Arrays
G.) Each ship can only have 2 Limpet Controller Arrays (exceptions up to 4 Limpet Controllers Arrays can be made for individual ships, to add more character to those ships; this should be done for ships that aren't very popular, to boost them - so not on Ships like the Python or Anaconda!)
H.) Do NOT make it so that a Limpet Array of Class 3 will only hold 2 Limpet Controllers, as they are Class 1 and so only take up one slot each! Class 3 Limpet Array = up to 4 Controllers! (I have other features in mind to use up space on the Limpet Array, and also putting a hard cap on them... just read on)
3.: Additional things a Limpet Controller Array can also hold:
A.) Limpet Fuel Tank (basically the fueltanks you can alread buy for your ship)
-- max. size is what ever amount of space is available on the Limpet Array, based on current Fuel Tank sizes.
-- this is the only tank the Limpets can use to refuel
-- used to avoid refueling the Limpets from the ships main tank and thereby accidentaly draining it
-- fuel can be manually transfered from the ships main tank to the Limpet Fuel Tank - (and maybe vice versa?) - at the players own risk.
-- will be filled while Fuel-Scooping, AFTER main fuel tank has been filled up
-- also needed for Fuel Limpets to work, as they will return for the players ship to refuel (I am not sure if they should just dock - or fly back to the target until it's tank is full -> your call)
B.) Spare Limpet Rack
-- here extra Limpets can be stored, in case you lose current ones (which should only happen with Hatch Breaker Limpets or active Limpets when the players ship has closed the Cargo Hatch and flyes away before the limpets can return and dock; you can still create new Limpets if needed with synthesis, anyway)
C.) Spare-Parts/Materials-Storage: in case Rapair-Limpets use Spare-Parts/Materials for repairing Ships, it needs to rearm at one point. This can be done here. Storage itself can be rearmed in the same way (and using the same materials?) as an AFMU (Auto Field-Maintenance Unit)
4.: EXAMPLE OF THE HARDWARE:
Reminder: Class 4 = 8x Class 1, same as a 4E-Cargo-Rack is 8x a 1E-Cargo-Rack - do not confuse Cargo-Capacity (16 tons) with the amount of Class 1 Slots (8 Slots á 2 tons).
(Also: keep in mind the Limpet Controller is not much more then a device for storing, refueling and controlling a Limpet; radio-communication will be handled by the Ships sensors and comms array, as the Limpet Controller is an internal modul, anyway. Things like decoding will be done by the Recon Limpet-Controller, though, as the Limpet is not spcecialized in this kind of job, but the Controller is)
AN EXAMPLE OF A CLASS 4 LIMPET CONTROLLER ARRAY, OUTFITTET WITH MULTIPLE MODULES:
[ Class 4 Limpet-Controller-Array ]
|- 1A Collector Limpet Controller (including 1 Limpet)
|- 1A Collector Limpet Controller (including 1 Limpet)
|- 1B Fuel Transfer Limpet Controller (including 1 Limpet)
|- 1D Repair Limpet Controller (including 1 Limpet)
|- 1C Fuel-Tank (Capacity 2 Tons) for refueling Limpets
|- 1E Spare Limpet Rack (1 Rack holds 2 Limpets, just like Cargo Racks)*
|- 1F Spare-Parts/Materials -Storage for Repair-Limpets
|- (EMPTY; put what ever else Limpet-Related you can come up with in here)
*This will only come into play when the player either screws up, or a Limpet used as a Hatch Breaker got shot down; this Rack should be available as an option regardless if you decide to allow players to continue storing Limpets in their regular Cargo Hold and use them from there; I just thought this would be a nice change and give the players more options, should they use a larger Limpet Array then needed and end up with dead space due to the limitations suggested by me
5.: REASONING AND EXCEPTIONS:
I suggest that Limept Controllers will be Class 1, use up 1 slot and weigh as much as the current controllers plus the Limpet for a reason:
So that smaller ships can use them without becomming useless as a whole.
Thats why I also suggest:
- Limpets being part of the controller and not being constantly lost
- caps for the amount of Limpet Controller Arrays
- caps for the types of Limpet Controllers on a Limpet Controller Array
- Limpets can be refueled in the way I suggested
- spare Limpets can (only?) be stored on the Limpet Array
Of cause the caps suggested by me, both for Limpet Controller Arrays and Limpet Controllers ON the Limpet Controller Array, can be changed.
But I would like to see this as a way to balance ships, by allowing certain ships to have higher caps, when it comes to the amount of Limpet Controller Arrays they can mount - not as a way to hold the players back.
Some personal remarks:
One of the ideas behind this suggestion, as I already said, was to promote the use of smaller ships, as you currently need to carry a lot of spare Limpets with you, which on the smaller ships you just can't.
I personally have set up a lot of ships based on Limpet-related gameplay, and they are basically all either ASP Explorers, Pythons or Anacondas - ships that are already along the most used ships in the game.
I want to use my Hauler for Collecting Materials and hacking, or an ASP Scout, or an Eagle!.. or an Adder! Heck, maybe even a Sidewinder! O_O
... but currently I would have to rearm like every 5 minutes, so I use an ASP Explorer or a Python... like virtually everyone else, who wants to be efficient.
And all the time, my smaller ships - ships that were designed with a lot of love and passion by some designers at Frontier - just sit in the hanger. And the only thing they collect is dust. :-/
Thanks for reading!
Commander Solko, out.
o7
EDIT:
Commander Exeider has also expressed his thoughts about re-designing Limpets in an own threat.
I find it very interesting, as he touches subjects I have neglected.
If you want to read it, too, you can find his threat here: -> Unified Limpet Drone Control System and Drone System Revamp
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