Reactivation Mission : Scavenger Surprise (please fix)

[Tabryn]

(Original title started with "Reactivation Mission B S", with no space between B and S.. I don't know why the forum is discarding parts of my text; it gave no explanation.)

By B.S., I mean bait-and-switch, of course.

1. Accept reactivation mission.
2. Leave station, board ship, start journey to settlement.
3. Receive message stating that scavengers have been detected. Please kill them for us, commander.
4. Try to fight them despite not having the gear for it, die, fail mission, get punished for failure. -OR- Abandon the modified mission, which was not what was agreed, and get fined for it.

What kind of Darth Vader B.S. is this?

(Mission giver: "I have altered the deal.")

IMHO, this mechanic as currently implemented is unfair and player-hostile.

My suggestion:

If they're going to change the terms, we should have the right to decline without punishment, just as we can with the "new destination" event in evacuation missions. Why in the world should we incur a fine when the mission-giver is the one who broke the terms of the contract? If anything, they should be forced to pay us (at least part of) the original mission reward value.

If opting out of a bait-and-switch surprise suicide mission must have a down-side, the time already wasted and additional time required to find another reactivation mission is plenty.

Edit for the people arguing that the power regulator is particularly valuable: In that case, I suggest it be returnable. It's not reasonable to fine someone for "stealing" something when in fact what happened was you put it in their possession and refused to accept its safe return.

 

[metatheurgist]

Yeah, it's a bit of a raw deal. The reason for the fine is that you are now the proud owner of a stolen power regulator; which used to be more useful than it is now.

There should be an ability to go back to the mission board and return a mission imo; if at that time you can't supply the PR then you get fined. But they're too busy turning the game into a space conquest game to worry about little details like this.

 

[aRJay]

(Original title started with "Reactivation Mission B S", with no space between B and S.. I don't know why the forum is discarding parts of my text; it gave no explanation.)

By B.S., I mean bait-and-switch, of course.

That you felt it necessary to point out you meant bait and switch suggests that you have a pretty good idea why the inbuilt filters removed that part of your original title.

I rarely bother with any sort of space based mission but when I do take one it is with the expectation that it is a trap of some kind, on foot missions I do much less frequently and with much less trust.

 

[Nowski]

Always expect scavengers to show up at abandoned bases, advertised or not. Sometimes they don't but you should be looking over your shoulder anyway.

I just take them out the coward's way, at a distance from my SRV. It's not remotely challenging, but if I've got some reason to do a mission I prefer the boring predictable victory over the thrill of combat with a small chance of death.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

On a more general point, Elite Dangerous isn't a "perfect information" game. If you're uncomfortable with surprises or unpredictable outcomes then Elite Dangerous doesn't have very many compared with a lot of games, but it does have some and that isn't a bug.

Always expect scavengers to show up at abandoned bases, advertised or not.

This. "Scavengers detected" doesn't mean "there will be scavengers", it means "you'll get extra pay for dealing with the scavengers who were probably going to show up anyway".

 

[anShpan]

Nothing to be fixed, IMO, that was always like that. Restore missions are my favorite on-foot, did a lot of those. From experience, only in 1/4-1/3 of times warning about scavengers is received before arrival to site.
Just to repeat what could be found on forum:

• scavs could be on site already, usually visible by their torch lights.
• upon arrival wait couple of minutes, then check contacts. For me in most cases scavs dropped from DBS or similar ship. Do not engage ship itself, it is Clean -> bounty/fine will be issued. If no suspicious ship like mentioned DBS then it's good time to disembark.
• dumbfire missiles are pretty effective against scavs for both cases above.
• for me works the best disembark close to Power building entrance and dismiss ship.
• as fast as possible engage PR. Careful when exiting Power building. Listen for tense music also.
• if scavs not arrived by that time in most cases they will not after power is restored.

Good luck!

After PP2.0 update there are sites with mixed scavs and Clean personal. Killing those in Clean status -> bounties and notoriety.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

After PP2.0 update there are sites with mixed scavs and Clean personal. Killing those in Clean status -> bounties and notoriety.

The Clean personnel are Powerplay agents, so if you're pledged and outside your own territory, killing them is bounties + merits but not notoriety, which is much nicer.

 

[anShpan]

The Clean personnel are Powerplay agents,

I've noticed that one plus one slightly different case: State was "Civil unrest", and some of NPCs were Wanted in black suits (baddies), others non-Wanted Commandos. Those Commandos were patrolling site as usual, not shooting me nor my ship. When I was taking down baddies while in eyesight of Commandos - no problem, not even aggroed on me. Never found some clear explanation for such situation, but just in case waited till nobody see me to arc cut the panel, powered up reactor and walked away from settlement.

 

[Tabryn]

I appreciate that a few people here have offered advice on dealing with scavengers. Thanks, but that's really not the point of my post. It's about the player being fined for the very reasonable choice not to indulge an NPC trying to unilaterally change a deal in a harmful way. The player has done nothing wrong by declining; they shouldn't be punished for it.

Can I ask why you don’t have the gear for it?

I just got Odyssey a few days ago. (And regardless of that, I don't always have enough free time to complete a surface fighting mission. That's part of why I chose a reactivation mission in the first place.)

 

[Nowski]

I appreciate that a few people here have offered advice on dealing with scavengers. Thanks.

Did you do the Oddysey tutorial? If so I should consider you warned about scavengers turning up. If not, you should probably do it.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

unilaterally change a deal in a harmful way

That's not necessarily the right way to look at it. From the NPC's perspective, they've warned you about the scavengers (when they could have just figured you'd notice them when you got there) and offered you an optional bonus payment for dealing with them. If you just sneak in, turn on the power, and sneak out again ... well, fine, you still get paid the originally agreed amount, just no bonus. If you at that point change your mind and run off with their power regulator, obviously they're not going to be happy about it.

It just seems like a parallel to the enemy appearances on ship-based cargo delivery missions - if you decide that the enemies showing up after you've started the mission are too tough and abandon the mission to get them to go away, you can get a fine for some of those too because this gives you an opportunity to run off with a bunch of mission cargo. Most ship mission types can have "oh, and also" events showing up half-way in as well.

 

[Tabryn]

That's not necessarily the right way to look at it.

I committed no crime, yet I was fined. That's nonsensical. It also detracts from player agency, which is not a good experience in a game.

If you at that point change your mind and run off with their power regulator, obviously they're not going to be happy about it.

I didn't run off with their regulator; I returned to the station where it was given. The NPC's failure to accept its return is not a crime on my part. If the regulator is supposed to be so bloody valuable and you're trying to argue verisimilitude, then the obviously it should be possible to return it.

(The game also seems to lose track of the regulator as a mission item if you place it in the station, then remove it, then put it back again. It seems the reactivation missions still have some rough edges.)

 

[anShpan]

I just got Odyssey a few days ago. (And regardless of that, I don't always have enough free time to complete a surface fighting mission. That's part of why I chose a reactivation mission in the first place.)

Main question would be: a) you don't want to shoot NPS at all or b) you just want to shoot them quick?
a) on-foot only delivery missions are free of shooting.
b) for me quickest are Restore Power and Retrieval from Crash Site. For Restore I'm taking only those in Systems where controlling Faction state is "Pirate attack" (that more or less guarantees that only scavs will be on site). Then for both mission types it takes just few minutes to nuke scavs with dumbfire from ship.

P.S. Settlement is powered down because someone took Power Regulator and possibly killed all personnel on site. Thus while restoring power some opposition from those "someone" must always be expected.

 

[SteveWW57]

Always expect scavengers to show up at abandoned bases, advertised or not. Sometimes they don't but you should be looking over your shoulder anyway.

I just take them out the coward's way, at a distance from my SRV. It's not remotely challenging, but if I've got some reason to do a mission I prefer the boring predictable victory over the thrill of combat with a small chance of death.

As Mr Mr Punch would say, "That's the way to do it!"

A G3 Executioner + audio masking works well if you shoot and scoot.

 

[anShpan]

It seems the reactivation missions still have some rough edges.)

From personal experience, after just couple of Covert Theft missions, those Restore missions will look logical and solid as titanum ball.

 

[g0oglyeyes]

I appreciate that a few people here have offered advice on dealing with scavengers. Thanks, but that's really not the point of my post. It's about the player being fined for the very reasonable choice not to indulge an NPC trying to unilaterally change a deal in a harmful way. The player has done nothing wrong by declining; they shouldn't be punished for it.

I just got Odyssey a few days ago. (And regardless of that, I don't always have enough free time to complete a surface fighting mission. That's part of why I chose a reactivation mission in the first place.)

Even if you're just taking regular pilot missions, you will find that they get updated on the fly. Sometimes assassins will be sent against you. Sometimes you will be offered a bonus for expedited completion. Other times your target will be missing and you will be directed to find a contact instead. Point is, this is part of the dynamism of the game. The rest of us have learned to live with, if not outright enjoy it, and I would personally be very unpleased if even this modicum of challenge were removed.

You learned your lesson, so in the future you should be prepared. Read the mission carefully - killing the scavvers is just a bonus. You can go about handling this in multiple ways, some of which don't even involve taking the personal risk of being shot at.

1. Land further out and sneak in to reactivate without being detected.
2. A Scarab SRV completely rolfstomps scavvers, even multiple waves of them. A Scorpion is even more invincible.
3. Equipping a single rack of dumbfire missiles on your ship means you can laugh with impunity as you pound them into dust before touching down unmolested.

If you choose to engage them on foot, staying under your ship will afford you the protection that your ship's shields offer, which should be substantial.

Once you know, you will realize it's not much of a hard ask at all. Get creative with solutions when you encounter new problems, and resolve to bounce back if you suffer defeat. Honestly, I wish there was more cool content that FDev put into the game as unexpected curveballs.

 

[varonica]

I just take them out the coward's way, at a distance from my SRV

The last time I got surprised they attacked my SRV first, that was a surprise I must say!

 

[Tabryn]

You learned your lesson, so in the future you should be prepared.

I learned what to expect regarding mission conditions, but to focus on that misses the point of this thread.

To be abundantly clear, I don't mind the fact that scavengers sometimes show up. I know I'm new to Odyssey, and I will eventually have the resources to be prepared for them. The thing that bothers me, and the focus of my suggestion, is what happens next:

The player is fined (and blacklisted from various services) when they haven't committed any crime.

I would edit the title to highlight this if the forum allowed it.

 

[anShpan]

The player is fined

Particularly for Restore Power missions, IMO, that is more than fair since Player not just broke one's commitment, but mission giver also loses Power Regulator on that.

(and blacklisted from various services) when they haven't committed any crime.

Not sure about blacklisted. That is reputation loss with particular Faction or something else? For crimes comes bounties and sometimes notoriety, but fine in this case is strictly financial (and, IMO, properly applicable) punishment.