Rebalancing the Asp Scout

Konnivar

Konnivar
While the extra size 2 slot and upgraded size 5 slot were steps in the right direction, I feel they weren't enough to move the Asp Scout out of the Lemon category. However, with a three more changes I think the Asp Scout could be a bigger version of the Diamondback Scout and add some uniformity to the "Scout" prefix (just as Explorer has).


  1. Give it the class 5 Thrusters of the Asp Explorer. The Scout prefix describes speed and agility; the AspS already has the agility down all it needs is speed. Giving it a max speed somewhere between an AspE and DBS (400-410) seems appropriate.
  2. Change the medium hardpoints to small and allow use of the two unused small hardpoint locations. The AspS already has hardpoint locations for the second set of small HPs present on the AspE. Having a total of 6 small hardpoints would make it unique and set its potential dps higher than a DBS, but lower than the AspE.
  3. 4 utility slots, like the small hardpoint locations there are locations on the AspS that look designed for utility mounts but are unavailable for use. Without these extra two utility slots the AspS will never be a competitive ship over the DBS or AspE

Currently there isn't a reason to choose an AspS over a DBS. When compared to the AspS, the DBS: Has the same hardpoints but closer placement, has 4 utility mounts vs. 2, is MUCH faster, has comparable maneuverability, is a much smaller target, and is a cold running ship. The only real "benefits" of the AspS are the "extra" size 5 slot, increased Armor rating, and armor heath. When fitted with grade A shield generators in the largest slot the AspS barely provides more shields than the DBS, and the extra armor health and toughness is offset by how much bigger the AspS is than the DBS.

Not to mention the price, 500k for a DBS vs. 3.8M for an AspS. The suggestions I made above would simply make the Asp Scout more competitive with the DBS, but I would consider it the bare minimum as the price difference still leans in favor of the DBS.


What additions/changes would you make to improve the Asp Scout?
 

cptdavep

cptdavep
In my opinion the Asp Scout should be aiming for a role as a long range heavy fighter, in a similar combat class to the courier/vulture, but with 25-30ly range. At the moment it's just not even close to that league, it's cobra levels of combat ability but as a medium size target it takes twice as many hits and dies in moments. It's a real shame as I love the AspX and would like the AspS to be a good combat version but as it is it's just feeble.

Not sure however about the above suggestion of six smalls, that would be unique, but would also be a bit rubbish against larger ships. Four medium hard points might be better to bring it into the Vulture class. It also needs stronger shields and four utility mounts. Not so sure about needing speed, it makes up for that with crazy manoeuvrability, and speed can now be gained with the help of Mr Palin.
 
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Konnivar

Konnivar
Sandro Sammarco said:
Hello Commander Konnivar!

Yes, we agree that the Asp Scout could use a TLC and is a priority contender when we next look at ship tweaking.
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Glad to hear that!

cptdavep said:
In my opinion the Asp Scout should be aiming for a role as a long range heavy fighter, in a similar combat class to the courier/vulture, but with 25-30ly range. At the moment it's just not even close to that league, it's cobra levels of combat ability but as a medium size target it takes twice as many hits and dies in moments. It's a real shame as I love the AspX and would like the AspS to be a good combat version but as it is it's just feeble.

Not sure however about the above suggestion of six smalls, that would be unique, but would also be a bit rubbish against larger ships. Four medium hard points might be better to bring it into the Vulture class. It also needs stronger shields and four utility mounts. Not so sure about needing speed, it makes up for that with crazy manoeuvrability, and speed can now be gained with the help of Mr Palin.
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Fair points, the original thought behind the speed and six smalls was to make a more uniform "Scout" class ship. Currently the "Explorer" class has a pretty well defined theme to it where both Scout class ships are pretty different in theme. I think the jump range is fine as it is only 1LY less than the DBS, and with Farseer that easily goes past 30ly.

One of the "Extra" things that I didn't add to my first post was to upgrade the size 5 slot to a size 6; that would really make it a competitive ship for it's class and make the almost 4M price tag a bit more worth it. I don't think four medium hardpoints is a great idea; that would put the damage potential of the AspS well over that of the Vulture a purpose built combat ship.
 

fus roh potato

fus roh potato
I totally agree with this. Considering it's price and size, it should probably have something over a vulture. If not outright tankiness and speed, having AspE hardpoints would give it a firepower edge. The DPS itself might not be greater (especially against big armor) but engineering would give it much greater special effect potential.

Dropping a body kit for it at the same time too... is how make mony.
 
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Madrax573

Madrax573
I've flown the ASP-S a fair bit since the update and not once grabbed myself the new DBE...that might tell you something about me!!

I like the idea of 6 smalls as the size 4 power dist would love that! Currently you can out fire any of the other 2+2 ships in an ASP-S because of the size 4 PD.
I would like to see another utility of two opened up but the rest of the internals seem like a decent setup IMO. Maybe upgrade one of the size 3 to a size 4 would be useful but not stepping on the ASP-E toes.

Oh and a body kit for sure!
 
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znôrt

znôrt
cptdavep said:
Not so sure about needing speed, it makes up for that with crazy manoeuvrability,
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i concur

cptdavep said:
and speed can now be gained with the help of Mr Palin.
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every ship can :)

fus roh potato said:
Considering it's price and size, it should probably have something over a vulture.
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i might be understanding 'have something over' wrong, but the asp scout is 1mill less than the vulture. yes, it's buggier bigger (*) . but then the vulture is a specialized combat ship, not a ... scout.

suggestions so far seem to make it into a pure combat ship. fine, but you know how this goes: speed is inverse to agility and jump range is out of the window. make your choice, don't be greedy ;-)


(* what was i thinking? :D)
 
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Konnivar

Konnivar
znôrt said:
suggestions so far seem to make it into a pure combat ship. fine, but you know how this goes: speed is inverse to agility and jump range is out of the window. make your choice, don't be greedy ;-)
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Is that not the purpose of a Scout ship? After all, the DBS would hardly be considered a hauling or exploration ship. Also, speed is not the inverse of agility there are plenty of ships that have both ex: DBS, FDL, iCourier. The Asp Scout has Half the mass of the Asp Explorer and yet it's slower, the AspS can't even outrun a Python. Sure Palin can upgrade the speed on the ship, but only to a point.

I'm not saying turn the AspS into a speed demon, but I believe it would fit into the scout role better if it was faster than it currently is.
 

znôrt

znôrt
Konnivar said:
Is that not the purpose of a Scout ship? After all, the DBS would hardly be considered a hauling or exploration ship.
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well, you got me if you ask me what role a scout combat ship with good jump range would have in ed where 'battles' resolve to small local skirmishes. but that's its alleged role.

Konnivar said:
Also, speed is not the inverse of agility there are plenty of ships that have both ex: DBS, FDL, iCourier. The Asp Scout has Half the mass of the Asp Explorer and yet it's slower, the AspS can't even outrun a Python. Sure Palin can upgrade the speed on the ship, but only to a point.
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yes i suspected this would be controversial. i've said myself often that 'speed=agility', and it is true in a practical sense. i was referring to the mysterious 'agility' ship property which is traditionally referred to as 'maneuverability', a combination of turn speed and inertia. yes, the fdl scores very low on that but is one of the most 'agile' ships in practice because of speed, relatively low inertia (for a medium ship of its mass), excellent boost and ... fa-off. that's why the fdl has always been so unpopular (until it got overpowered because of the heat bug (silent running rail build) or the stacking of thermal shock on oc multicannons, or got ridiculous shields because of booster stacking): because you need to know how to fly it.

however, if you look at the asp scout's nominal agility, it's has the same as the vulture and the eagle. and the dbs, which is a bit of a compromise. true, compared to the dbs, the asp scout's stats are a bit underwhelming, but the bottom line is you can't have it all: jump range, maneuverability, speed, firepower, internal compartments and utilities.
 

Konnivar

Konnivar
znôrt said:
however, if you look at the asp scout's nominal agility, it's has the same as the vulture and the eagle. and the dbs, which is a bit of a compromise. true, compared to the dbs, the asp scout's stats are a bit underwhelming, but the bottom line is you can't have it all: jump range, maneuverability, speed, firepower, internal compartments and utilities.
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I agree, which is why I didn't propose another internal slot or even an upgrade of the size 5 to size 6 (which it could greatly use imo). The lack of optional internal space already limits the Asp Scout to a great extent, but like you said: You can't have it all.

That being said, the Asp Scout is meant to be a bridge between the Diamondback series and the Asp Explorer and in my book the current Asp Scout is worse IN EVERY WAY than a DBS or even a DBX. It has comparable or less firepower, has the same power plant, same thrusters, same (or worse) FSD, same distributor (but better than DBS), 2 less utility slots, comparable shields (to the DBX), and the only difference between an AspS and the DBX's optional internal slots is a size 5 instead of a size 4. All of this in a ship which is 3 times more expensive than a DBX and with a profile big enough to fit 2.5-3 Diamondbacks next to each other makes for a severely underwhelming ship.

The suggestions I made in starting this post would aid in putting the Asp Scout into that middle ground that it should be in.
 

myothershipisacobraiv

myothershipisacobraiv
So I've flown the Scout a bit and I think the problem is not that there's something wrong with it, it's just that it's not good enough at anything compared to everything else.

But you can't change it from being an Asp-lite without removing its aspx versatility.

So I have a couple of weird ideas to add to the obvious one of just buffing it. One, making it the only Lakon ship which really handles heat well. Two, make it a small ship.
 
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