I like to experiment with counter builds and engineer things to that end but for the life of me I can't find a use for reflective armor. Does anyone use this? How do you justify the cost and its horrible vulnerability to explosive damage? I tried Engineering it for heavy duty and also tried kinetic resistance but can't seem to find a reason to use it. The reactive seems way better for an insignificant cost difference and the military grade seems about as good but way cheaper. Am I missing something?
Reflective armor: why?
- Thread starter Trollymctrollerson
- Start date
Shielded Fuel Scoop
Any FSD upgrade other than Long Range
This isn't the only useless item to come out of Frontier. It won't be the last either.
Any FSD upgrade other than Long Range
This isn't the only useless item to come out of Frontier. It won't be the last either.
You're not really "missing anything" here, it's more geared towards combating those who fly around with laser-only weapon builds.
Not everyone uses a diversity of weapon loadouts, for example. There are actually quite a few who fly around in laser-only builds purely for the sake of being able to melt shields quickly and target subsystems, rather than taking down shields and then focusing on hull with kinetics, etc.
Simply depends on personal preference and what you're designing your ship to do.
Not everyone uses a diversity of weapon loadouts, for example. There are actually quite a few who fly around in laser-only builds purely for the sake of being able to melt shields quickly and target subsystems, rather than taking down shields and then focusing on hull with kinetics, etc.
Simply depends on personal preference and what you're designing your ship to do.
Both good points lol. I guess if its cost was comparable to the much cheaper military grade option it would be worth considering.
Deleted member 38366
D
Remember these Armour choices have their origins in the pre-Engineers era. A time when also neither HRPs, MRPs nor SCBs were a thing.
And back then, it did allow to run specialized builds, such as... higher hull resistance against Lasers.
Perfectly valid choice, provided the drawbacks were carefully calculated.
And back then, it did allow to run specialized builds, such as... higher hull resistance against Lasers.
Perfectly valid choice, provided the drawbacks were carefully calculated.
With engineers in mind, the "loopsided" armour actually is an advantage. You can squeeze more total value (health plus resists) out of them than out of resist balanced armour.
.
Of course, most people go for reactive armour and thermal resist, as that's still slightly cheaper, but that means you'll end up with thermal resist being a tad better than the rest. If you prefer your kinetic resist to be better, you should start with reflective armour. If on the other hand credits still matter to you, then better go with military armour. The saved money might be more valuable to you than the tiny bit of better health/resist combination.
.
.
Of course, most people go for reactive armour and thermal resist, as that's still slightly cheaper, but that means you'll end up with thermal resist being a tad better than the rest. If you prefer your kinetic resist to be better, you should start with reflective armour. If on the other hand credits still matter to you, then better go with military armour. The saved money might be more valuable to you than the tiny bit of better health/resist combination.
.
I think you mixed up mirrored armor amd reactive armor? How are you getting better Kintic resistance off an armor that has negatives in both kinetics and explosives? And Reactive is the most expensive. I feel like I missed something.
My Clipper has 16/15.7/10 resistances for Kinetic/Thermal/Explosove respectively. Im not seeing it.
for me the main drawback of armor is weight, and all three are the same. if you decide to go for armor and incur that penalty, it makes sense to make it count, so it's either lightweight or reactive since that's the easiest to balance and gives you most bang. military is just an edge case (namely, you're poor and should probably be flying a smaller ship). mirrored is pointless (afaik).
Last edited:
agreed.
As mentioned above, this probably is a leftover from before Engineering was introduced.
Before Overcharged kinetic weapons, I seem to recall that having some balance of Thermal and Kinetic weapons was important to taking down the shields, then cracking the hull. It seemed like a more nuanced type of combat and outfitting. A ship with Mirror Armor could have an advantage against an attacker who had chosen mostly Thermal weapons.
If memory serves, there were complaints back in those days that combat was taking too long. Skilled pilots might drag on for 20 minutes, and then the TTK (time to kill) was still long enough that one pilot had a good chance of disengaging and leaving the combat with no kill scored, after all that time.
The TTK was greatly shortened in later updates, and I've not read as much posted on the topic. So I suppose those complaints were satisfied.
Or I may have all of that wrong. I read about combat, more than participated.
Before Overcharged kinetic weapons, I seem to recall that having some balance of Thermal and Kinetic weapons was important to taking down the shields, then cracking the hull. It seemed like a more nuanced type of combat and outfitting. A ship with Mirror Armor could have an advantage against an attacker who had chosen mostly Thermal weapons.
If memory serves, there were complaints back in those days that combat was taking too long. Skilled pilots might drag on for 20 minutes, and then the TTK (time to kill) was still long enough that one pilot had a good chance of disengaging and leaving the combat with no kill scored, after all that time.
The TTK was greatly shortened in later updates, and I've not read as much posted on the topic. So I suppose those complaints were satisfied.
Or I may have all of that wrong. I read about combat, more than participated.
Don't forget, not everyone (for whatever reason) has Horizons and access to Engineers, either.
also a good point, although there are other reasons not to engineer besides not having horizons. horizons is actually just frontier's way to wedge pay2win into the game while proudly announcing their microtransactions are pure vanity and absolutely not pay2win.
ok, getting my remlock now ...
also a good point, although there are other reasons not to engineer besides not having horizons. horizons is actually just frontier's way to wedge pay2win into the game while proudly announcing their microtransactions are pure vanity and absolutely not pay2win.
ok, getting my remlock now ...
Definitely preaching to the choir, there lolI completely agree with the sentiment. Anything that affects game "balance" in a multiplayer environment that gives huge advantage (*cough* Engineers...*cough*) should have been released at the core level, not an optional DLC component. Pay 2 Win is exactly what Horizons is, in a multiplayer context.
As a Solo player, perhaps not so much. Whether you engineer or not on a personal level in Solo is complete choice of preference. But when you're in a multiplayer environment and it gives you a clear percentage advantage of damage or defense against other players, it's pretty obvious.
.
Oki, on the price i have to crosscheck. I thought mirrored is more expencive than reactive. The rest roughly spoken: you take reactive armour. The armour itself you modify for heavy duty. Just like you do with the bigger HRPs you use. The smallest HRP you modify for thermal resist. This more than makes up for the negative of the armour. That's why my Krait, outfitted with reactive armour and engineered that way, runs with 39% of thermal resist, 35% kinetic resist and 34% of explosive resist.
.
I haven't done it the other way around yet, but as reflective armour and kinetic resistant engineering are just the inverse of what i use, the numbers for thermal and kinetic should just exchange.
.
.
I completely agree with the sentiment. Anything that affects game "balance" in a multiplayer environment that gives huge advantage (*cough* Engineers...*cough*) should have been released at the core level, not an optional DLC component. Pay 2 Win is exactly what Horizons is, in a multiplayer context.
As a Solo player, perhaps not so much. Whether you engineer or not on a personal level in Solo is complete choice of preference. But when you're in a multiplayer environment and it gives you a clear percentage advantage of damage or defense against other players, it's pretty obvious.
Hmm. In that case, any expansion, DLC and the likes in about any MMO out there the last 15+ years is pay2win in your book? Many MMOs add additional levels and progression and each and any DLC and expansion for any MMO out there adds some new items which might be of advantage in one or another aspect. So yes, if that's your stance, then indeed, Horizon also is Pay2Win. But as long as you don't declare each and any MMO out there, which ever had an expansion or DLC to be Pay2Win, i disagree with your point here.
.
Where i do agree is that Engineers are still not good. They're not the catastrophy they formerly were, but they're far from being great. And indeed, they add a lot of power creep, which indeed is not good for the health of the game. But that's not the topic of this thread. Of course you can turn each and any thread around here to be about engineering and how terrible it is. Might be just me, but it's my impression that znôrt does that a lot. But i don't consider it constructive to have yet another complaints thread.
.
This thread is about reflective armour. Others already gave some info there. Before Engineers came, i also often used reflective armour for the notion stated by somebody else: when my shields went down, it meant that the enemy was using a lot of thermic weapons. So reflective armour was momst likely what i needed in that case. I just also wanted to add the engineering angle: How many people now use the fact that specialized resists on engineering modifications give a higher total of resists than adding balanced resists, while of course leaving your resists unbalanced. Using "unbalanced resist" armour can mostly compensate for this, while giving a better health total than having to engineer three pieces with resists.
.
horizons, planetary landings, etc, all the new content is not what makes it pay2win. placing engineers (and materials) only on planets is. there is no reason those shouldn't be accessible in some form to base game owners. this is a clear move to force players to buy horizons to catch up with the new 'standards' (erm, power creep). i.e., blatant pay2win.
When it offers a clear numbers advantage in a player versus player environment? Absolutely. It's Pay 2 Win, cut and dried. No two ways about it.
Power creep is always an issue, with any game that offers a "progression" system of some sort... but what's the true "alternative" there? What are you going to do to completely avoid power creep, other than offer no real terms of progression to begin with? Flat numbers across the board that never increase or improve?
Sure, the topic is indeed about reflective armor. And it's relative because not everyone owns Horizons, and therefore does not have access to Engineers for improvements to their armor. So "self-righteous preaching about staying on thread topic" aside, it's definitely relative to the topic being discussed- because builds based on non-Horizons will most likely be specialized.