Relative mouse Toggle - Please :)

[Madrax573]

Come on FD give us M+K users some lovin'!

I use M+K for the majority of my games. I have a game pad but seeing as I travel a lot it's just not feasible to bring all my accessories when I'm on the road.

All i'm asking is for a simple toggle key press to be added so I can switch between relative and absolute mouse control.
Relative control makes FA-off so much more intuitive whilst absolute is useful with FA-on and in SC.
I'd also love it if you could link the two toggles as well so if FA-off is selected then relative mouse control applies as well and visa versa.

The option is there.....just bind it to a key press please.

 

[WillFrog]

Seconded. Been asking for this pretty much since beta. It would make M&K so much better!

Please FD.

 

[Meltho]

please FD, let us have this. It would be really useful.

 

[00zau]

+1. Trying to learn FAOff is a PITA when every time I turn FAOn or Supercruise my controls feel like garbage.

 

[Madrax573]

Well once again I've stopped using FA-off as my default control method.

A slight change to my original suggestion/request.

A toggle to link Relative mouse control to FA-off/on. This way if I swap to FA-off in combat the controls don't go crazy and are manageable.

A toggle to always switch off relative mouse in SC. This so that if FA-off is the default it doesn't make you feel like you are flying through treacle in SC.

this is the one QOL feature that will have the most impact on myself in the near future. I don't think it would be even that difficult to code in either.

 

[Phazon Xenomorph]

Pardon my ignorance but what do you mean by relative on the controls? I use Mouse and Keyboard and can't seem to figure out how to not be completely garbage at FAoff.

 

[nanite2000]

+1 from me too. A key-binding for this would be lovely. Either that, or an option to switch to relative mouse control when FA-OFF is enabled.

I would love to use FA-OFF all the time, but it's not practical to use the mouse in relative mode while in Supercruise.

 

[WillFrog]

Pardon my ignorance but what do you mean by relative on the controls? I use Mouse and Keyboard and can't seem to figure out how to not be completely garbage at FAoff.

I'm not sure of the technical definitions, something to do with measuring where a device is vs tracking how far it's moved I think or something like that. But essentially in the default absolute mode moving the mouse applies constant input. If you have it set to yaw and move the mouse slightly to the right and leave it there you'll fly around in a circle. Very useful for fuel scooping. Much less useful with FA off because the only way to counter that thrust is to move your mouse precisely the same amount in the opposite direction. This is basically impossible so in practice you end up spinning around like a crazy person until you turn flight assist back on.

By contrast relative mode only counts the actual mouse movement and then stops, which lets you be balletically awesome with FA off but means with FA on you have to endlessly scroll your mouse to make even the tiniest turns like you're stuck in mud.

Unfortunately the only way to switch between modes is to change it from the options menu which makes it largely useless unless you want to commit to being FA off all the time. And even then supercruise will be a massive pain! Hence asking for a toggle, ideally an automatic one tied to flight assist.

 

[Madrax573]

Pardon my ignorance but what do you mean by relative on the controls? I use Mouse and Keyboard and can't seem to figure out how to not be completely garbage at FAoff.

The following screen shot shows the relative mouse selection in the options.

What relative mouse control does is gradually (you set the speed) that the mouse pointer returns to center for piloting control. What this means is that it simulates a joystick returning when you take your hands off etc.

If Relative mouse control is off then if you move your mouse (always have the mouse widget on IMO) it will stay there and your ship will continually turn towards your mouse pointer.

Turned off it makes flying with FA-on much better, however when you turn FA-off then using relative mouse control makes it much easier to control.

 

[StiTch]

I'm not sure of the technical definitions, something to do with measuring where a device is vs tracking how far it's moved I think or something like that. But essentially in the default absolute mode moving the mouse applies constant input. If you have it set to yaw and move the mouse slightly to the right and leave it there you'll fly around in a circle. Very useful for fuel scooping. Much less useful with FA off because the only way to counter that thrust is to move your mouse precisely the same amount in the opposite direction. This is basically impossible so in practice you end up spinning around like a crazy person until you turn flight assist back on.

By contrast relative mode only counts the actual mouse movement and then stops, which lets you be balletically awesome with FA off but means with FA on you have to endlessly scroll your mouse to make even the tiniest turns like you're stuck in mud.

Unfortunately the only way to switch between modes is to change it from the options menu which makes it largely useless unless you want to commit to being FA off all the time. And even then supercruise will be a massive pain! Hence asking for a toggle, ideally an automatic one tied to flight assist.

Unfortunately this would take away what FA-Off actually is. I don't see why KBAM users should get any special advantages - you still have to counter your movement with a stick. In fact, countering your movement on a mouse is ten times easier.

It's been made pretty clear in the past that FA-Off should not be a convenience thing that can be used by default by everyone to give them basically sharper turning. FD have stated they want FA-Off to be difficult to use, either to give an edge in combat at the right times or simply for the kudos.

Honestly if KBAM users have any complaints they should be in the keyboard department. When you get over the mental barrier of "I don't have specialised equipment" you realise a mouse is utterly superior to stick.

Of course if your technical understanding (or my understanding of your writing) has been incorrect then ignore me

 

[Madrax573]

Unfortunately this would take away what FA-Off actually is. I don't see why KBAM users should get any special advantages - you still have to counter your movement with a stick. In fact, countering your movement on a mouse is ten times easier.

It's been made pretty clear in the past that FA-Off should not be a convenience thing that can be used by default by everyone to give them basically sharper turning. FD have stated they want FA-Off to be difficult to use, either to give an edge in combat at the right times or simply for the kudos.

Honestly if KBAM users have any complaints they should be in the keyboard department. When you get over the mental barrier of "I don't have specialised equipment" you realise a mouse is utterly superior to stick.

Of course if your technical understanding (or my understanding of your writing) has been incorrect then ignore me

While I think this a technically right I think you may be taking it the wrong way.

The relative mouse option is to simulate joystick movement and how the joystick self centres if no input is given to it.
There is no inherent advantage to KBAM (I like this acronym) with relative mouse on while flying FA-off, just brings it inline with Joystick usage.

 

[StiTch]

I think you may be taking it the wrong way.

The relative mouse option is to simulate joystick movement and how the joystick self centres if no input is given to it.
There is no inherent advantage to KBAM (I like this acronym) with relative mouse on while flying FA-off, just brings it inline with Joystick usage.

Ah fair, thanks for clearing that up.

I thought he meant when you stop applying input your ship would actually stop pitching/rolling even with FA-Off.

 

[WillFrog]

Heh my technical understanding is pretty minimal but trust me, FA off with K&M is basically impossible ATM. In fact all you can do with it is sharper turns. FA off, turn, FA on. That's the best you're going to get. If you want to fly like Isinona well ... you can't.

Sure you have to counter your movements with a stick but not to the exact nanometre like you do with a mouse. What happens is you over-correct one way and then the other over and over again until you're pinwheeling around with no idea which way is up. It's hopeless.

 

[Madrax573]

Ah fair, thanks for clearing that up.

I thought he meant when you stop applying input your ship would actually stop pitching/rolling even with FA-Off.

That would happen if you had relative control on with FA-on as well. You would only turn if you are moving the mouse, which is what happens in SC and is a total PITA to get anywhere.

When relative control is on and FA-off it effectively acts as attitude adjust controls so if you say move the mouse right a small fraction then stop it would pulse the controls to the right then stop so you would slowly rotate as if you did the same with a joystick.

Flying FA-off with relative control on is not too bad actually, it feels pretty intuitive as it's simulating joystick control. Flying FA-off with relative control off is just crazy. Imagine using a joystick that didn't return to centre and flying FA-off.

 

[h347h]

Long time KBAM(lol) user here and I just bind the center reset to a key and that's all I need. The relative mouse stuff just got in the way and was clumsy. Perhaps give that a try. Though control toggles like this would be nice.

 

[Madrax573]

Long time KBAM(lol) user here and I just bind the center reset to a key and that's all I need. The relative mouse stuff just got in the way and was clumsy. Perhaps give that a try. Though control toggles like this would be nice.

Yeah I have my mouse wheel press bound to freelook/centre mouse and it works a treat but once you get used to FA-off with relative control it really does give us KBAM users the 'feel' of using a flight stick.

Give it a shot (a real red hot go not just 10 mins) and you'll see what I mean. Since that screen shot I've added a bit of deadzone to my mouse as I have a fairly sensitive mouse and a little bit of play in hte middle helps with fine fa-off control I find but YMMV.