Relogging as a part of the gameplay

[Kyokushin]

Dear FD,

Please - do something with relogging.

Almost every action what could be profitable or may give some advantage is strictly connected with relogging.

Of course - yes - do not want to relog then do not relog - this obvious thing know everyone, but this is twisted logic, because players are finding the optimal way to play.
Optimal way is connected with a minimize time and efforth and maximize the profits.

So, for now, the optimal way to play is rellogging, let me show You examples:

1. Finding materials on missions
Go to the station, relog to all your groups, collect missions, relog to solo, collect missions, back to open, collect missions, and repeat. Then you are maximizing your chances to collect interesting stuff from a missions.

2. Money
a) sothis/ceos missions
as above, relog to group, collect missions, relog to each private groups, collect missions, relog to solo, collect missions, back to open, and agan... after you will hour cargo then go
b) gems
At each 'log in' to solo/group a gems are spawning in number of 20-30 pieces. So the fastest way to gain gems is log to solo, collect by 6 collectors, relog, collect, relog, collect, relog.

3. federal/imperial ranks
ekhm. It is not so easy like it was before, but again, it is simply connected with relog. As in point 1 and 2a it is collet missions, relog, collet missions, relog.

4. Collecting materials
a) Go to the barnacle, destroy, collect, relog, destroy, collect, relog.
b) Go to the seeking luxuries, kill all T9, collect, relog, kill all T9, collect, relog


Proposed solutions:
Solution is simple:
1. Make all missions the same on all modes (with a change after 10-15 minutes)
2. Add much more missions (seven or eight times more) to BB to compensate players a lack of relog
3. Give barnacles, NPC, and every other stuff a 15 minutes delay to rebirth, but buff a droprate a bit (as above, to compensate lack of relog)

After that relogging will not provide any profits and playing a way without reloging will be also effective. Reloging is really immersion breaking.

FD - please - you make excellent space combat game (i like it even when i hate RNG), but logging in and logging out is a part of acces to the game, not a gameplay. This is Elite Dangerous, not Active Directory

 

[Baton]

Effectively you choose to eat microwave food because is the most "optimal" way and you are complaining that it is tasteless and Tesco should make it better. Maybe just learn to cook, it will take you more time to prepare the meal but satisfaction guaranteed

 

[Kyokushin]

Microwave food is not optimal or effective at all, and i do not eat a food from it.
If you learn how to cook then it will be more healthy and faster than microwave, but you just need a gitgud in cooking

 

[goemon]

I'm fully with you, @OP.

more so since FDEV set up a CG which could reach the first tier with relogging only (the last MA-CG).

i just think it is isn't as easy to implement, as it looks.

- the possibility to switch modes at any time is a (often debated, sometimes disliked) core feature of the game. it is a "higher value" - e.g., a solution won't tackle that side of things.

- servers you access aren't fixed. mission boards for exampel are consistent serverside, but via modeswitching you force getting on a different sever.

- not sure about the technical implementation of spawn, but i assume spawntables don't have a timer in them. it also looks to me, because many spawn-in-time missions have been broken, and were disabled for 2.1. there is a basic problem somewhere.

e.g.: i would like to see it changed. FD tried to address it a bit. but maybe it is much more complicated?

 

[Kyokushin]

They can mark the bases on planets as 'visited' to some period of time and you need to wait before a possibility to make next base raid, so they can make everything else also persistent.

 

[Leo Sagan]

I'm with the OP on this : the logoffski maneuver is not a showstopper per say but it is a bug/glitch/oversight that will get fixed at some point. And frankly, the sooner the better. I hear you goemon, but they could at least improve things if a full fix is not doable overnight. Especially since this has been in game for ever.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Game works fine without logging, with the expection of some CG where FD knows people will use the Exploit and thus the CG ends to fast so they have to put the Tiers high so it doesn't end too fast which causes people to need to use the exploit to fnish it in the first place. Very messed up situation there, something needs to be done in that regard.

 

[Leo Sagan]

and you are complaining

Fortunately, FD doesn't consider that constructive criticism = complaining. Maybe because they want to improve the game. Surely this is your wish as well, right ?

 

[goemon]

They can mark the bases on planets as 'visited' to some period of time and you need to wait before a possibility to make next base raid, so they can make everything else also persistent.

it is interesting, that barnacle scan data works like it (as it is with bases); e.g. you can't scan it twice for a period of data, but the materials spawn isn't consistent. e.g. barnacle/base -> consistent location/POI, spawn -> not consistent/re-rolled each instance.

as said, i have no idea why there is a difference between those two, i'd be really interested about an explanation from a technical side of things.

 

[Kyokushin]

And this should not be hard to implement, they do not need to store every mission list (or whatever) in database.

1. By the default there is no generated persistend missions on BB
2. If any player is enterning the station instance, then missions are generated and stored to cache for 15 minutes
3. if any other player on any game mode enter the station instance then he will get generated missions from cache
4. if there is no player in 15 minutes then cache is flushed
5. if another player is entering then go to point 1.

So this will not require much server efforth, because at now, if some of player is on the station and other player will dock then they will see the same BB, so this need to be a bit tweaked to works as i described above.

Only BB at stations where are players in some time interval (in all instances and game modes) needs to be stored in cache, anything more, so this will not require more amount of database, but it will save CPU power needed to generate new missions. Instead of generation they will be taken from cache.

 

[goemon]

improve things if a full fix is not doable overnight.

didn't they do so? the mission board consistency on the same server was implemented somewhere in 1.5., and from what i have read they also put in some kind of dimshing returns of BB refresh.

but yeah, nothing of that was a showstopper, and i think it is good to list like OP does where this mechanic is very much part of gamey gameplay strategies. it is quite a basic problem.

 

[RhymeRhyme]

Dear FD,

Please - do something with relogging.

What's your problem here? I relog a lot as I want to make fast cash. What's your problem here? I don't want to grind hundreds of hours. The gameplay is lacking, not the players who use the fast track. What influence does my gameplay have on your gameplay except for 0? Not everyone is willing to invest hundred of hours in a mega grind game. So, just let people play the way they want. You know... Let me blaze my own trail.

If so many people use the chance to get on faster, you should ask FDev or yourself, how gameplay itself and the underlying game mechanics could be enhanced. It's obvious that this game only constits of grinding, whatever you do. Ranks = REP = Credits = new ships = Engineers = Power Play = hundred of hours grind. That's what's wrong with the game, not the fast tracks that people choose. The real gameplay is missing. Meaningful gameplay, not repetions over and over.

 

[goemon]

if some of player is on the station and other player will dock then they will see the same BB

... but only, if they are in the same instance, when docked at the same station, no? i guess, there is the problem. mission board is "stored" per instance. so either it would be needed to store it client side for a fixed time (so the same players sees the same missions in all instances), or the mission board would need to be stored across all instances?

 

[Kyokushin]

What's your problem here? I relog a lot as I want to make fast cash. What's your problem here? I don't want to grind hundreds of hours. The gameplay is lacking, not the players who use the fast track. What influence does my gameplay have on your gameplay except for 0? Not everyone is willing to invest hundred of hours in a mega grind game. So, just let people play the way they want. You know... Let me blaze my own trail.

If so many people use the chance to get on faster, you should FDev or yourself, how gameplay itself and the underlying game mechanics could be enhanced. It's obvious that this game only constits of grinding, whatever you do. Ranks = REP = Credits = new ships = Engineers = Power Play = hundred of hours grind. That's what's wrong with the game, not the fast tracks that people choose. The real gameplay is missing. Meaningful gameplay, not repetions over and over.

I wrote this relogging should be replaced by normal way of play. Instead of relogging you should get a 7-8 more drop of missions, but reloggign should be disabled.
Then you will do the same money, but you will not need to get out and in to the game over and over.

Instead of loging in and out you should open BB, take missions, and do them.

I do not want to cut off a ways of making money, ranks or collecting materials. I also against this madness grind. I would like to make gameplay same efficient, but without a relogging part.

... but only, if they are in the same instance, when docked at the same station, no? i guess, there is the problem. mission board is "stored" per instance. so either it would be needed to store it client side for a fixed time (so the same players sees the same missions in all instances), or the mission board would need to be stored across all instances?

This should not be also a big deal to code every instance refer to the one same cache. And this cache could be generated by any instance, so if there will be a player in 'some' instance then he will create/generate BB for all other for 15 minutes. After 15 the next player from any instance will trigger a generating of new one. If there will be a lot of players, then 'the first or random' will trigger a generator. If there will be no player then cache will be cleared and server resources released.

 

[Boomer Kay]

What's your problem here? I relog a lot as I want to make fast cash. What's your problem here? I don't want to grind hundreds of hours. The gameplay is lacking, not the players who use the fast track.

I relog very little, if at all, since I create my own continuity.
The gameplay is not lacking, if you actually realise that this game is not designed to be "beaten". Unlike very straight forward (and ultimately boring) games with perfect inherent continuity - you get a "quest" to find 5 roses and exactly 5 roses are spawned for you in exactly the right location - you might get send out to find 5 barrels of whisky and only manage to find 4.
You can call it a day and head back, telling your contract giver you only found 4, or you can relog to "force the respawn".
It is actually up to the individual player how to handle that and to each their own.

When I was ranking in Federation, I was stacking the missions at a station (only Fed minor factions, so there were plenty) - mostly smuggling, some fetch and some donations.
When I delivered the smuggling stuff and got back with the fetch stuff (and some extra), the board had usually refreshed and I got new missions.
Took me about 40 hours to rear admiral in total, which was maybe slower than plain relogging and just spamming donation missions (I tried that in 17 Draconis and got bored after about 10 minutes), but I was actually playing the game, making money while ranking and didn't burn out.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

2. Add much more missions (seven or eight times more) to BB to compensate players a lack of relog

Completely agree, provided FD doesn't make 10 minute waits for pathetic spawns the replacement "gameplay", like has always been the case with rare goods.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Completely agree, provided FD doesn't make 10 minute waits for pathetic spawns the replacement "gameplay", like has always been the case with rare goods.

Well, that is the replacement gameplay.
Or a one week respawn.

 

[goemon]

What's your problem here? I relog a lot as I want to make fast cash. What's your problem here? I don't want to grind hundreds of hours. The gameplay is lacking, not the players who use the fast track. What influence does my gameplay have on your gameplay except for 0? Not everyone is willing to invest hundred of hours in a mega grind game. So, just let people play the way they want. You know... Let me blaze my own trail.

If so many people use the chance to get on faster, you should FDev or yourself, how gameplay itself and the underlying game mechanics could be enhanced. It's obvious that this game only constits of grinding, whatever you do. Ranks = REP = Credits = new ships = Engineers = Power Play = hundred of hours grind. That's what's wrong with the game, not the fast tracks that people choose. The real gameplay is missing. Meaningful gameplay, not repetions over and over.

sure.

i personally have no problem with people relogging, my problem starts where a CG is set up in a way, that it requires relogging to reach tier 1. also it makes discussions about "balancing" very complicated, as we have seen with the endless robigo discussions ... e.g. it was very hard to compare robigo without relogging and robigo with relogging to any other activity in game.

basically you can also reset the instance by going to hyperspace and/or jumping out of and back into system - and i personally find that strange, too. for exampel: "searching" for UA by jumping in and out of a system, "searching" for metallic meteorits by srv in ship, ship takes of, change to srv, look to wave scanner 20 seconds, back to ship etc. wouldn't make a mechanic where you get MMs in a better way, when you search for it, better gameplay, than where you reset instances for a new spawn?

 

[Thetele]

They don't need to nerf stuff by removing re-logging. They should make that you could do the same without re-logging than you can do now by re-logging, make mission board update more (so often that re-logging is slower than waiting for board to update) and make sites like barnacles etc. spawn so much stuff that re-log isn't as big advantage as its now.

 

[Boomer Kay]

i personally have no problem with people relogging, my problem starts where a CG is set up in a way, that it requires relogging to reach tier 1.

... or more players participating.
... or just letting the CG fail. (back to page one - "players always assume the game has to be won").