Remove Chaff from NPCs

[Schmack]

NPCs spam chaff relentlessly and it will create long, unwanted engagements with small craft. If I play PvE only I cannot get much benefit from chaff as many of the ships seem to be either using fixed weapons or they just don't mind. realistically, no space craft would ever have a fixed weapons system that required the pilot to point the entire craft at a moving vessel in order to engage it. Still, I get it for things like rails and PAs, but trying to use a HOTAS while unselecting the target so I can go basically fixed weapons mode creates more annoyance than challenge. I am going to kill the target, and I can kill a large target much faster than a small one if they both are dispensing chaff.

So, either get rid of chaff for any NPC smaller than an iClipper or raise the bounty on smaller ships to compensate for the annoyance of jousting forever with a small ship dispensing chaff. Yeah I've tried hitting them with PAs and such, but using a HOTAS is like using a joystick on console - there's always a ring down effect when targeting. Many games use aim assist for controllers since the mouse and keyboard can simply point and click, but this game seems to push players toward fixed weapons and if they don't give in, the game will just create an undesirable environment of chasing a greased pig around for an hour.

 

[Morbad]

Not in favor of any suggestion that has NPC play by an inferior set of rules to CMDRs. Chaff prevalence should be proportional to the popularity of autotracking weapons. Chaff is also more effective on smaller vessels, so should be employed more readily by smaller vessels. NPCs shouldn't be trying to die, they should be trying to shoot you down, or failing that, they should try to escape.

Against NPCs chaff is pretty useful against things like Spec Ops and wing assassination mission targets.

Also, get some actual fixed weapons and use those when enemies chaff; it's by far the most obvious and effective solution to the main problem faced by all-gimbal/turret boats.

 

[Bortas]

Remove gimballed weapons from your ship

 

[Captain Willard]

Why?

 

[gorankar]

Well, sure, as long as it gets replaced by an A rated G5 shield booster. Chaff spam is annoying, but if they are spamming chaff, that is one slot no longer available for a shield booster. Drop target lock on them and go fixed until the chaff runs out.

For the sake of seeming like real live commanders, perhaps NPC's should use fully engineered meta ships for piracy and combat and the like. We would see less chaff at least.

 

[Danieros]

Chaffs can be annoying, yes. But this is why you may want to not fully rely on gimbals. Mix up with a fixed weapon or two, rail guns are extremely strong for pve. Or just get some practice at firing your gimballed weapons without a target selected - this way they'll fire like fixed weapons.

 

[metatheurgist]

Nothing wrong with chaff, it's the behaviour of gimbals when chaffed that needs to change.

 

[Several Puffins]

trying to use a HOTAS while unselecting the target so I can go basically fixed weapons mode creates more annoyance than challenge

I enjoy it. You could avoid starting fights with small ships while you get better with fixed against big ones?

I've tried hitting them with PAs and such, but using a HOTAS is like using a joystick on console

I take a PA/Fixed cannon DBS out small-ship hunting regularly enough and can hit things fine.

Have you tried altering your curves? I use joystick gremlin and it makes it much easier if you can make microadjustments. Not KB/M easy, but I would rather feel like a starship pilot than a combat spreadsheet filler so I think HOTAS is worth the hit!

 

[Brrokk]

Nothing wrong with chaff, it's the behaviour of gimbals when chaffed that needs to change.

I'd like my sensor grade to mean something. D-rated sensors maybe badly affected by chaff, but A-rated ones usually seeing through it. ATM it makes no sense that I can see the target a couple of km away but my sensors aren't as good as 21st century optical ones.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

A-rated sensors help with gimbal tracking and target locking when the target runs cold, but they do nothing against chaff.

 

[Speedcuffs]

A-rated sensors help with gimbal tracking and target locking when the target runs cold, but they do nothing against chaff.

They do? Didn't know that.

 

[RamirezKurita]

A-rated sensors help with gimbal tracking and target locking when the target runs cold, but they do nothing against chaff.

I thought that was tested in one of the betas, but it never went through into release?

 

[Screemonster]

If your enemy is chaffing then that just means you can give your WEP capacitor a break. It's not like NPCs ever run double chaff.

 

[Morbad]

I thought that was tested in one of the betas, but it never went through into release?

Sensor signature has always affected gimbal arc.

Here is an example from way back in 1.4 or 1.5 that is equally applicable today:

Source: https://youtu.be/Qq9TDEvg-tU?t=250

You can tell when the FASes are silent running cold by how far off center my gimbaled cannon will track them.

The proposed change you're referring to was to make tracking dependent on sensor rating itself, not the apparent sensor signature of the target. That never went through.

 

[Jmanis]

If your enemy is chaffing then that just means you can give your WEP capacitor a break. It's not like NPCs ever run double chaff.

I'd add, if you're enemy is chaffing and you can't hit them, it means you aren't close enough

 

[Pat Healy]

I get the annoyance but chaff spamming is the tip of the iceberg. Chaff spamming is the NPC's only trick in the bag to make combat even minimally interesting. It's so predictable that I recently realized I was unconsciously using a little upward thrust to evade the PA slug that I know is coming 100% of the time in a certain situation. Yep, sure enough, big purple ball floats by harmlessly below and it's back to punching the NPC in the face. This is an old, old story so I'll shut up, but I'd gladly pay for an expansion that included an upgrade to the AI.

 

[RamirezKurita]

Sensor signature has always affected gimbal arc.

I thought the issue was that under anything resembling normal combat conditions, even low grade sensors are able to max out on the gimbal arc? On a technicality, it does affect gimbal arc, but in practice it makes no difference.

 

[Schmack]

I enjoy it. You could avoid starting fights with small ships while you get better with fixed against big ones?

I have almost 5K hours. I don't think I'm going to "git gudder".

I take a PA/Fixed cannon DBS out small-ship hunting regularly enough and can hit things fine.

Have you tried altering your curves? I use joystick gremlin and it makes it much easier if you can make microadjustments. Not KB/M easy, but I would rather feel like a starship pilot than a combat spreadsheet filler so I think HOTAS is worth the hit!

No, I am not going to run another software to play this game. I'll kill ships just fine, I'll just be annoyed by the greasy little piglets.

Not in favor of any suggestion that has NPC play by an inferior set of rules to CMDRs. Chaff prevalence should be proportional to the popularity of autotracking weapons. Chaff is also more effective on smaller vessels, so should be employed more readily by smaller vessels. NPCs shouldn't be trying to die, they should be trying to shoot you down, or failing that, they should try to escape.

Against NPCs chaff is pretty useful against things like Spec Ops and wing assassination mission targets.

Also, get some actual fixed weapons and use those when enemies chaff; it's by far the most obvious and effective solution to the main problem faced by all-gimbal/turret boats.

I know the options already. I don't want to go with fixed weapons with the HOTAS. I think I covered that.

I'm fine with making the NPCs smarter and more powerful, just don't care for the chaff that only serves to drag out the confrontation, it doesn't save the NPC ever.

I get the deal with chaff and don't really need a lesson on how it works. A suggestion is just that, not a cry for help.

I feel like most didn't read the actual paragraph, just the thread title.

Nothing wrong with chaff, it's the behaviour of gimbals when chaffed that needs to change.

6 in one, half a dozen in the other. In reality you are correct, but either would serve the purpose. I don't mind some dithering or losing lock, but maintaining lock on radar but losing gimbal lock makes no sense. I'm cool with heat sink launching and ECMs and such. Cool with chaff actually, but a Dbx spamming chaff for 10 minutes, outliving the larger more powerful ships in the instance, that's a bit unrealistic.

 

[Morbad]

On a technicality, it does affect gimbal arc, but in practice it makes no difference.

It would probably be hard to discern between sensors based on gimbal performance alone in the current game. I would probably need to rerun some tests to be sure it was even apparent sensor signature from the observer's perspective and not just absolute sensor signature of the ship being targeted.

The proposed change would have affected gimbal tracking even at maximum sensor signature. A ship lit up with emissive would have had different tracking depending on the sensors of the vessel tracking them.

The point was that they are two separate effects. There is a signature component to gimbal tracking that has always been there that would have been independent of the proposed change you referenced.

I have almost 5K hours. I don't think I'm going to "git gudder".

I'm still goodening.

 

[Schmack]

If chaff was being done "right" then chaff in the localized area would affect sensors in the localized areas, mine and others. If I am stuck to another ship like glue, I should have the benefit of their chaff. I don't, for gameplay reasons.

Not discounting anyone's comments, but I've used fixed weps plenty over the years, it's not my thing with the HOTAS. I find it to be too bouncy and I am probably not going to ever install any dampening or corrective software to adjust the HOTAS response.

But NPCs already do things we cannot, like dropping out and coming back into SC without cooldown, jumping with near zero hull constantly, never going dark without targeted module destruction, etc... It's not my intent to cripple them to make the easier. I would love harder battles, but tedious != difficult.