Renaming stations: "M. Gorbachev"

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Vomag

V
Sorry for my English...

Flight in the solar system have noticed that most of the stations are named after prominent people. I'm not going to speculate how much the people were outstanding, but that's what I was outraged: Why call the station name of the person who ruined my country, millions of people are doomed to a miserable existence, and threw back its development for decades?
Instead, Gorbachev is much better to be the name of the first cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin. Yes, there is such a station, and you can even change the names of places.

P.S. maybe I'm just wasting my time, but at least I tried ...
 

Psychomorph

Psychomorph
Because in the West Gorbachev is respected for having tried to reform the "villainous" Soviet Union and ultimately contributed to its collapse. Russians on the other hand see Gorbachev's implications - poverty, increased corruption, social injustice of a capitalist system and much more.

This game is developed by a western developer, so... they're unlikely going to mind your feelings on this one. :S
 

racer1

racer1
It is historical too IIRC it was called Gorbachev in either Elite II or First Encounters that came out around the end of the cold war.

I did think it was a little strange too, but not being Russian it didn't bother me.
 

Coolgroove

Coolgroove
From a history perspective I can understand why Gorbachev name make all Russian players "What?!".
And from "Space pioneering" perspective - I'm all for renaming this station to "Yuri Gagarin", it'll suit game setting much better!
 
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Comrade Error

Comrade Error
I would definetly support a change. I don't really care at all about what it is but if it bothers somebody else I'll support it even though I don't much care about what name it will have in the end.
 

CmdrJacks

CmdrJacks
It's an historical throwback to the older games, he was pretty big in the news at the time. We also have an Abraham Lincoln, but being a British company I find it strange that there's no W Churchill, or even an M Thatcher where we can all dump biowaste or mining effluent.
 

Lestat

Banned
Lestat
We have to have good and bad people names. I don't go. Why are they in the game? Remember one group of people view them as hero's others view them differently.
 

Turjan

Turjan
Remember that what we're looking at here is history from the perspective of 3301 in game terms, not today's.

There's been mention of the Abraham Lincoln station in this thread - if this game had (somehow miraculously, obviously! :D ) been published in 1870, I'm sure a lot of southern US states players at that time would've been offended that a station was being named after a man who (from their perspective) had destroyed their livelihoods...

Likewise Cmdr Jacks' mention of what would happen if there was an M Thatcher station. If you talk to us British players, you'll find that most of us would at least understand, if not necessarily sympathise with, the concept of using such a station as a target for biowaste. The rest of us of course would be unavailable for comment because we'd actually already be out there dumping said biowaste ;)

That's the thing with politicians and history, it's impossible to say today what their legacy may be tomorrow.

Cmdr Jacks also mentioned W Churchill - we all know him as the WWII leader whose actions were decisive in winning that war. Churchill is also known for this famous quote :-

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it."

So while Churchill is rightly remembered for his part as a great decisive leader, his successes tend to overshadow certain other not quite so illustrious decisions in his own political history, like his initially chilly stance on the question of women getting the right to vote :-

"The women's suffrage movement is only the small edge of the wedge, if we allow women to vote it will mean the loss of social structure and the rise of every liberal cause under the sun. Women are well represented by their fathers, brothers, and husbands."

My point is, this is a science fiction game set in the far future so who knows what people in 3301 would think? Heck, a lot of traders in the game make shedloads of cash from trading in slaves, and that isn't exactly a legal or moral career from today's historical perspective, is it? :rolleyes:

All I can add is that if there was an M Thatcher station or (god forbid!) a T Bliar (yes, I deliberately spelled it that way - anyone who knows why...knows why) station, then rather than being personally affronted by it IRL, I would regard it as just history seen through a rose-tinted starship canopy by the space game people of 3301.

...and then I'd jettison 500T of biowaste directly in the mailslot of T Blair station :p
 
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Cosmo

Cosmo
Vomag said:
Sorry for my English...

Flight in the solar system have noticed that most of the stations are named after prominent people. I'm not going to speculate how much the people were outstanding, but that's what I was outraged: Why call the station name of the person who ruined my country, millions of people are doomed to a miserable existence, and threw back its development for decades?
Instead, Gorbachev is much better to be the name of the first cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin. Yes, there is such a station, and you can even change the names of places.
Click to expand...

Seconded. Yuri Gagarin was a true pioneer and hero of space exploration. The station should honor Gagarin instead of the authoritarian communist Gorbachev.

Psychomorph said:
poverty, increased corruption, social injustice of a capitalist system and much more.
Click to expand...

Under the draconian Soviet Union the communist party had mock trials, put people in gulags for no valid reason. There was severe violation of personal and economic freedom by state bureaucracies. The Soviet Union collapsed under it's oppressive and corrupt communist policies. Afterward more free trade and open-market policies (increased capitalism) has improved living standards a lot.
 
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Psychomorph

Psychomorph
Cosmo said:
Seconded. Yuri Gagarin was a true pioneer and hero of space exploration. The station should honor Gagarin instead of the authoritarian communist Gorbachev.
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He intended to change the SU. I think his heart was in the right place and as such he is honoured by the West.

The irony is, if he had succeeded to reform the Soviet Union, the 90's would have been a much better time in Russia than what they have turned out to be.


Cosmo said:
Under the draconian Soviet Union the communist party had mock trials, put people in gulags for no valid reason. There was severe violation of personal and economic freedom by state bureaucracies. The Soviet Union collapsed under it's oppressive and corrupt communist policies. Afterward more free trade and open-market policies (increased capitalism) has improved living standards a lot.
Click to expand...

You should not mix different periods of the Soviet Union with each other. Life has been different there in different times. The 80's have been less oppressive, which also led to the consequences that occurred later. The 90's have been a worse time, because unregulated freedom and capitalism leads to the wicked feeding on the weak. And there have been a feast.

We all know change is hard, but it had to be done. The Soviet Union had to end, but it wasn't all bad. It also didn't collapse because it was evil, there have been various factors at work, both internal and external.

-


On the subject though, realistically these stations would carry names of great Scientists/Astrologists, such as Copernicus, Newton, Einstein, etc.

Galileo Terminal at the Moon is the station that is my home base therefore.
 
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CmdrJacks

CmdrJacks
It's difficult for us in the west to get a good picture of what the USSR was like because.. well, propaganda. From both sides. I'm sure the Russians had the same problem learning about us as we did learning about them. Lots of hysterical "communist evil" press over here, and (probably) lots of "decadent west" over there. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle is my rule of thumb.

I'm just glad we didn't all get incinerated.
 
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Cosmo

Cosmo
Psychomorph said:
You should not mix different periods of the Soviet Union with each other. Life has been different there in different times. The 80's have been less oppressive, which also led to the consequences that occurred later.
Click to expand...

The amount of oppression has varied during the Soviet Union, but generally speaking people's personal freedom was very limited, their property and rights could be violated at the communist party's whim and they didn't get fair trials.

Central planning is inefficient and much more wasteful compared to free market forces. The oppression and bureaucratic central planning lead to the deterioration and downfall of the Soviet Union. Western countries with more freedom were rapidly growing and thriving, the Soviet Union couldn't keep up.

Psychomorph said:
The 90's have been a worse time, because unregulated freedom and capitalism leads to the wicked feeding on the weak. And there have been a feast.
Click to expand...

After the Soviet Union collapsed it took time for Russia to reform and adopt more open economic policies, but the quality of life and increased freedom that Russians enjoy now is much better than it ever was during the Soviet Union.

CmdrJacks said:
It's difficult for us in the west to get a good picture of what the USSR was like because.. well, propaganda.
Click to expand...

If you take a trip to Venezuela or North-Korea you can witness the bad life conditions and poverty of those people due to communist policies.

In China people were also very poor and oppressed during the reign of communist party leader Mao Zedong. No station should be named after a dictator who killed 45+ million people. Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years.

That's my last comment on the subject here so I don't derail the thread.
 
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avow555

avow555
Can't really see them renaming the station as it's cannon from previous games.

It may be wise not to bring politics into this as it is against the forum rules.
 

bigredforester

B
avow555 said:
Can't really see them renaming the station as it's cannon from previous games.

It may be wise not to bring politics into this as it is against the forum rules.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. though when you look at the federation powers in powerplay, if your a american like me, you can see the present political divide here, pretty much laid out... though I think that the same tension is going on is a lot of western countries.
 
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FrodoHobbits

FrodoHobbits
Zeeman said:
No, because Putin is a bare chested national hero.

Z...
Click to expand...
Putin.jpg

Sorry, I couldn't resist
 
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