<request> please remove delay from Rail Guns

[vonvonbraun]

Now that are projectile based, the shot should be already loaded and ready to go

maybe make the reloading longer, but trigger lag is not a good design in my opinion

 

[Remiel]

Now that are projectile based, the shot should be already loaded and ready to go

maybe make the reloading longer, but trigger lag is not a good design in my opinion

No, you can't have a one-hit-wonder weapon that doesn't take any difficulty or skill to use.

 

[Geers]

No, you can't have a one-hit-wonder weapon that doesn't take any difficulty or skill to use.

Last time I tried railguns they didn't seem to be doing any actual damage.

 

[vonvonbraun]

No, you can't have a one-hit-wonder weapon that doesn't take any difficulty or skill to use.

Dumbfire missiles then? Those are way more damaging as dps goes and have no delay, just a very easy cicle to center

come on i am being logic. At the rate the rail gun hits it already makes it less effective that dumbfire spamming

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Last time I tried railguns they didn't seem to be doing any actual damage.

indeed, damage has a huge rng on railguns too

i just like them and they are viable, certainly not op as it stands with reload and rng damage

the shot delay is nonsense

 

[Remiel]

Dumbfire missiles then? Those are way more damaging as dps goes and have no delay, just a very easy cicle to center

come on i am being logic. At the rate the rail gun hits it already makes it less effective that dumbfire spamming

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



indeed, damage has a huge rng on railguns too

i just like them and they are viable, certainly not op as it stands with reload and rng damage

the shot delay is nonsense

From a dev during gamma:

Hardness is a value that ships have that alters the amount of damage a weapon will do to it based on a weapons Hardness Piercing value. This isn't the same thing as armour piercing btw. So if a weapon has an equal or higher HP value to that of the targets H value then nothing different happens, the weapon does it's full damage. If the HP value is lower than the targets H value then the damage done is lowered proportionally based on the difference between the two values. This has the effect that small weapons typically are only good against small ships, or more generally weapons are appropriate against the size of ships that can mount them. The railgun is a special case because it punches above it's weight meaning it has a HP value equivalent to medium weapons, so it can do serious damage to a cobra when fitted to a sidewinder for example. This change also means that a cobra has a choice now between 4 small cheap and efficient weapons that are only effective against smaller ships or equip medium weapons and be effective against equal sized ships at the cost of being slightly more difficult to use against the smaller craft (due to fire rates and power drain).

Explains why sometimes you do more damage than at others. It depends on your target's size, what kind of armour he has fitted, etc. Same with any weapon. Railguns are fantastic for specific things, and terrible at others. For example, if you're trying to use rails in a close-in dogfight, you're doing it wrong. At range against something bigger than you, you're doing it right.

They're not removing the charging delay, I can guarantee it. Dumbfire missiles are much harder to aim at range compared to railguns, and require you to get closer to assure hits. Getting closer means putting yourself at risk. Your OPINION that it's bad game design =/= objective fact. Railguns have gone through MANY iterations throughout pre-release before landing on how they work now.

So once again, no, you can't have a one-hit-wonder weapon that doesn't take any difficulty or skill to use.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

-- Deleted --

 

[shrinkshooter]

Dumbfire missiles then? Those are way more damaging as dps goes and have no delay, just a very easy cicle to center

Now that are projectile based, the shot should be already loaded and ready to go

maybe make the reloading longer, but trigger lag is not a good design in my opinion

You're comparing dumbfire missiles and railgun shots and claiming they're mechanically the same, while also claiming you're staying logical.

No, you're not.

Dumbfires have no firing delay and they do more damage per hit, but also cost a couple grand per bank of 8, and they have a slow flight speed. Unless railguns have been changed in the last couple of days, they are hitscan weapons, they don't have flight speed. They don't act as "projectiles," they simply have limited ammunition. Right now the only thing making them different than pulse lasers is their charge and reload times, ignoring their actual stats.

It's quite easy to miss a target with dumbfires depending on size, speed, and proximity. You're never going to miss a target with a railgun because you didn't lead enough with your aim, proven by the fact that there aren't any lead indicators when you target something. Explain to me again why you expect the charge time should be removed, and this time try not to compare two entirely different weapons operating under completely different mechanics. At the very least don't try to claim railgun shots have a flight time.

 

[TheEponymousBob]

Hm, technically a Railgun should have its pronounced delay when recharging its capacitors before firing.
The firing moment itself should indeed occur without any delay (makes no sense).

Hmm. I can see your point, though I'd just note that it's at least consistent with engine boost, which is also essentially a delayed capacitor discharge.

 

[graeme.firth]

No, you can't have a one-hit-wonder weapon that doesn't take any difficulty or skill to use.

What this guy says - learn to aim.

 

[Cross]

The firing delay on the railgun drives me mad entirely from a weapon-design standpoint. Nobody would ever get any market traction selling a weapon that fires when it feels like it with no care for informing its user of when this might be.

 

[smunisto]

There's a sound queue. Learn to listen or don't use rail guns.

 

[gogereaver]

they nurfed them as people said nearly any gun does better these days. there ammo cost is stupid they only carry 30 rounds and it take 4 or 5 shots to down a small ship. even if they keep them nurfed give them more ammo and make it cheaper. atm multicannons outclass them in every way. the fire delay can be annoying it should be after you shoot just like cannons i can see it making sense with multi cannons they need to spin up.

 

[Cross]

There's a sound queue. Learn to listen or don't use rail guns.

So a terribly-designed charge indicator. That isn't any better.

 

[dr.zli]

The firing delay on the railgun drives me mad entirely from a weapon-design standpoint. Nobody would ever get any market traction selling a weapon that fires when it feels like it with no care for informing its user of when this might be.

it has a fixed amount of time between the moment you press a trigger and when it fires. Experiment more and you'll see. It;s not press A to win weapon

 

[shrinkshooter]

I'll be constructive here in an effort to counter my previous post: railguns SHOULD do more damage than they currently do, carry at least double the ammo, perhaps gen a bit more heat to keep it balanced, and perhaps alter the charge a bit. Not get rid of it entirely, but make the charge delay itself very small, like 1/4 second, but the time it takes between shots for the cell to charge is at least as long as the current charge. That's how this weapon would be handled in the real world: a weapon requiring a charge would discharge, and then immediately begin charging for the next shot, only doing so when the trigger is pulled.

 

[smunisto]

Maybe you want a "Press F to feel" button?
Quicktime events?

Point is, the rail gun works reversely to how it technically does. That's the main problem with it. The fact that someone can't aim, unless there is auto-aim like on their XBone is not really a problem, more of a skill deficiency.
I had 2 Rails on my Eagle. Aside from the low ammo clip(which, to be honest is explainable too, but its damage needs to be boosted a bit to reflect that), the Rail gun is a viable weapon, never had any problems aiming.
Of course, you can't try to snipe with it and you can't try to lead targets. Then again, Rail Guns are not designed to chase Sideys, Eagles and Vipers with them. They take out 1/3 of a relatively high health subsystem with a hit.

 

[gogereaver]

yea they seem more a subsystem killing whepion now then mass destruction.

 

[Frenotx]

I would be very sad if they removed the pre-firing delay from railguns. The delay makes the weapon more challenging to use, sure, but it also makes it more rewarding when you get good with it- and yes, you can get good with it. The delay always lasts the same amount of time, so once you're familiar with it, it's not that big of a deal.

What I WOULD like to see changed is perhaps a slight buff in damage, a slight increase in the amount of aim assist (making them act like fixed beams, for instance), or ideally, a rework of their damage mechanic. Even when I'm right on top of an enemy so I know I'm hitting, the railgun seems to just not do damage sometimes. Another interesting change would be for it to be capable of hitting subsystems through ships. Being able to snipe someone's powerplant from the wrong side of the ship would be sweet.

As far as a logical reason for it to have the delay, gameplay and balance aside: Heat. Something like a railgun needs a huge burst of energy to fire. The best way to get such a burst of energy would be with some sort of capacitor. Perhaps holding a charge in these capacitors would generate a ton of heat, and potentially damage the system. Keeping the gun "ready to fire" at any time would probably just consume too much power, and generate too much heat. The only way to keep things stable is to only charge the weapon when it's about to fire.

 

[Lyker]

First thing that should be fixed with railguns are the ammo price.

 

[vonvonbraun]

Hm, technically a Railgun should have its pronounced delay when recharging its capacitors before firing.
The firing moment itself should indeed occur without any delay (makes no sense).

The only thing that IMHO would make sense (i.e. to avoid OP'ing it as a Weapon class) was to reduce its firing rate.
I was extremely surprised to see the firing rate being so high.

Exactly this

make it fun to use but make the delay longer

way better than some nonsensical delay on a trigger

find me a real weapon that has a delay on trigger, any weapon engineer would be screwed if they did that