PvP Requesting a bit of guidance

[Hans v Martell]

Gentlemen,

inspired by a conversation with CMDR Bigmaec in a thread where it was misplaced, I'd like to know your thoughts.

I'm presently ever more thinking about venturing out in the open since pure PvE no longer seems to be any challenge. Now I'm perfectly aware that PvP is a completely different story, requiring different builds. However, please let me have your thoughts about how my present build would do out there - what would I have to change, improve, replace or rethink? How could I (in small steps if possible) approach this new challenge?

Here is what I have:
https://coriolis.io/outfit/federal_assault_ship?code=A2pktkFflndpsff41n1n2a2a00050404B22dm72b2b6g012f.Iw18aQ%3D%3D.Aw18aQ%3D%3D.H4sIAAAAAAAAA12QMUvDcBDFr20a2oY0JrY21YpgA4KDOAu6uHRSkAqOip38CKWD30Do5CBO6gdwdnEVXBxFxElEanEQwZr%2Bn%2B%2BESDDDceT97r3%2FnRhbRMZ5luBuALhrBvCPLJHoNifibFFB1kwlULXrinjP30DY42TFioHm7iyhnKkrxEnJzL8A3sQICFbGJPtFkear4h2qsM1eQnofGQY%2FrYrUr5ixdPYGoGB2kri4wRJ2GGd1v4B8uypi38%2FQpJiCHIWGWZH8pU%2F9pCzyi6NkthXKKjStK55S93SF8KZAss10a2KBSo%2FGjfUSjZ3%2FM8t%2FMxfFBD8Iicf8Z29wwebDJ1Br8xRwTSt5ll%2FgKaNDzjgjvYKSc%2B96AN8sJlA5rlG%2FZutrCfp8e6QdJlPQkLdxzhXaV%2BiRwVFfoUoKaqnTsUJagoE6aeduaiYk9f0AdCOml%2FYBAAA%3D.IwegLCoAyQbCMCmBDA5gG0SSVdA%3D&bn=FABeast

Thanks in advance, CMDRs! o7

 

[Winter Jasra]

You'd be better off joining the git gud school on discord and asking over there, posting your current build.

A pvp fas would be about 30-40m/s faster with around 1000 more hull points than yours, and the rails would be long range g5 mod with thermal reducing secondaries of about 50%. The bi-weave shield would be thermal resist with about 12% increase to either/or both regen secondaries.

I'm no expert, but something like this:

https://eddp.co/u/Kum6cdEb

 

[Winter Jasra]

In that build the PA's should also have a thermal reducing secondary.

Nuts, meant to edit the other post.

 

[Arguendo]

Here's a good build to work from: https://eddp.co/u/5mrDgCZw
That is a pure hull build though, so you'd have to modify it to a hybrid if that's what you're aiming for.

From your build, there are a few things that stick out immediately to a semi-novice like myself.
1. Why the #3 FSD Interdictor? Swap that out for a #2 and put an HRP in the #3 slot. And unless this is your transport ship from A to B, lose the Discovery Scanner and add an MRP there instead.
2. I'd swap the special on one of the rails for Feedback Cascade. Not a lot of full-on hull builds out there, so being able to mitigate SCBs is a good thing
3. Why Thermal Cascade on the Cannon? It used to be OP beyond broken, but that's not the case anymore. I seriously doubt you'd get the effect you're looking for with just one TC Cannon. I'd swap that for HY as well to make it a better module-killer.
4. I think you're going a bit overboard with 3 shield boosters for a Bi-Weave hybrid, but that's me. I'd replace atleast one of them (the OB) with a point defence, since you'll be going no-shields quite a bit. And then engineer the <sensored> out of the other two OAs.
Note: I have very little experience with the FAS, but I am sure someone more familiar with it will correct any of the above in no time flat

Winter Jasra has covered a lot of the other stuff.

 

[Winter Jasra]

Here's a good build to work from: https://eddp.co/u/5mrDgCZw
That is a pure hull build though, so you'd have to modify it to a hybrid if that's what you're aiming for.

From your build, there are a few things that stick out immediately to a semi-novice like myself.
1. Why the #3 FSD Interdictor? Swap that out for a #2 and put an HRP in the #3 slot. And unless this is your transport ship from A to B, lose the Discovery Scanner and add an MRP there instead.
2. I'd swap the special on one of the rails for Feedback Cascade. Not a lot of full-on hull builds out there, so being able to mitigate SCBs is a good thing
3. Why Thermal Cascade on the Cannon? It used to be OP beyond broken, but that's not the case anymore. I seriously doubt you'd get the effect you're looking for with just one TC Cannon. I'd swap that for HY as well to make it a better module-killer.
4. I think you're going a bit overboard with 3 shield boosters for a Bi-Weave hybrid, but that's me. I'd replace atleast one of them (the OB) with a point defence, since you'll be going no-shields quite a bit. And then engineer the out of the other two OAs.
Note: I have very little experience with the FAS, but I am sure someone more familiar with it will correct any of the above in no time flat

Winter Jasra has covered a lot of the other stuff.

I was just looking for Cmdr PeLucheuh's build to post here too

 

[Arguendo]

I was just looking for Cmdr PeLucheuh's build to post here too

It's an ok template to build from, but I wouldn't advice anyone to jump straight into that hull-build and think they can do what he does with it

 

[Hans v Martell]

Guys,
thanks a lot for your input, it is highly appreciated. Please allow me a few remarks/questions to hopefully gain a better understanding.

-How would I get this thing 30-40 m/s faster? I was thinking Prof. Palin gave me quite a decent roll

- What is the benefit of long range on the rails? (My preferred combat style is very close up)

- Things like the discovery scanner and cargo rack are presently on board for doing missions. They would of course be swapped out for something more useful when going to town with PvP. An MRP usually sits in the place of the cargo rack when I go hunting ;-)

- In one of the sample builds, there is an A grade life support - would one not choose the lightest possible?

- PAs appear to be the go-to thing for PvP. Why is that? As far as I can see, they usually get engineered towards efficiency, which means that my cannons have even better damage and DPS. What am I missing here?

-

Thanks again and fly safe, gentlemen! o7

 

[Winter Jasra]

1. Prof Palin did you give you decent roll, of 134.5%, but these drives max out at 143% currently, and with the upcoming engineering changes it will be much easier for you to max out your drives so you can get your fas 30-40 m/s faster.

2. Shot speed and the secondary effect of thermal reduction, this will be much easier to get too with the upcoming changes to engineering.

3. That's fine, not sure myself though if you need the extra mrp or would be better off with an extra hrp on your shield build.

4. A rated life support because with hull tanks there's a higher chance you will lose your canopy.

5. PA's engineered with the focused mod get a much higher shot speed compared to the efficiency mod and you can get secondary effects which reduce thermal load and power distributor draw. PA's also have absolute effects as standard, so they ignore resistances. Cannons are kinetic based, so they will be effected by kinetic resistances on shields and hull and therefore do less damage, PA's wont be affected by either thermal or kinetic resistances.

Some of the pvp'ers out there do actually use cannons and PA's on their builds, instead of PA's and rails, it can be another really good combo.

 

[Arguendo]

A bit of a re-hash and addition to what Winter Jasra has already said.

-How would I get this thing 30-40 m/s faster? I was thinking Prof. Palin gave me quite a decent roll

Tbh, a 134% is a mediocre Dirty Drive roll. The standard blueprint goes to 130%, and with secondaries it can go as high as 143%-ish. I generally want 137%+ for my drives, while closing in on 140% would be great. Anything above 140% is pushing into God Roll territory. I'd just wait until next Tuesday for the new engineer system, as that will allow you to max out your DDs.

- What is the benefit of long range on the rails? (My preferred combat style is very close up)

First off, LR Grade 1 is pretty easy to spam for the 50% thermal reduction. You'd then have Rails pushing 3km without any damage drop off. They're most useful for module sniping (Super Pen) or SCB cancelling (Feedback Cascade). The thing that pushes LR into "must have" is first off the thermal reduction, but also the OP nature of the mini-gimbal. On long ranges you can still hit with accuracy as the mini-gimbal helps you a lot. The mini-gimbal actually borders on broken with the way it works now tbh.

- Things like the discovery scanner and cargo rack are presently on board for doing missions. They would of course be swapped out for something more useful when going to town with PvP. An MRP usually sits in the place of the cargo rack when I go hunting ;-)

I would definitely pick another ship for mission running. FAS is ok for CZ missions perhaps, but there are far better choices for general missions than the FAS.

- In one of the sample builds, there is an A grade life support - would one not choose the lightest possible?

The canopy on the FAS isn't that easy to break, but it does happen. I'd try flying with the D-rated one for a while, and if you see that you lose your canopy too often, I'd change to A-rated and do Lightweight mod on it instead.

- PAs appear to be the go-to thing for PvP. Why is that? As far as I can see, they usually get engineered towards efficiency, which means that my cannons have even better damage and DPS. What am I missing here?

The Efficient mod makes it possible to pretty much continously spam them. And since they do absolute damage (ie. ignores resistance) in addition to having the Target Lock Breaker experimental effect, they are very good PvP weapons. DPS isn't everything. DPE is definitely something to consider due to the limitations of the Power Distributor, and then you have to consider that PvP players generally have a lot of resistance and have them balanced. That makes absolute damage more useful.

Good luck out there!

 

[The Replicated Man]

Gentlemen,

inspired by a conversation with CMDR Bigmaec in a thread where it was misplaced, I'd like to know your thoughts.

I'm presently ever more thinking about venturing out in the open since pure PvE no longer seems to be any challenge. Now I'm perfectly aware that PvP is a completely different story, requiring different builds. However, please let me have your thoughts about how my present build would do out there - what would I have to change, improve, replace or rethink? How could I (in small steps if possible) approach this new challenge?

Here is what I have:
https://coriolis.io/outfit/federal_...BAAA=.IwegLCoAyQbCMCmBDA5gG0SSVdA=&bn=FABeast

Thanks in advance, CMDRs! o7

Good Day Hans,

Just figured I'd give a few tips regarding your FAS.

1. Get a 6B Power Plant and put Grade 5 Armored mod on it. You will be constantly under fire from railguns in PvP.

2. Get Rid of the cargo rack and the scanner. Put a AFMU and a HRP in their places. The AFMU will enable you to repair the MRP and the Canopy

3. Drop one booster. I would reccommend 2 Res Aug boosters and 1 Chaff and 1 ECM to counter missiles.

4. On the 5C Bi weave I would get thermal resistance. You may even want to shoot for a REGEN secondary effect. It helps on the FAS because the shields come back so quickly.

5. Cannons and Rails are a good but tough combo, Especially with fixed cannons. I would recommend trying 2 large cannons and 2 medium plasmas too.

 

[Hans v Martell]

Good luck out there!

Thanks

A lot of great and helpful hints, I will consider each of them carefully. Firstly, it seems I'll have to revisit Palin and have a word with him [cool]

I would definitely pick another ship for mission running. FAS is ok for CZ missions perhaps, but there are far better choices for general missions than the FAS.

I like to do assassination and massacre missions, and the cargo rack is just to be able to get those that come with commodity rewards. It is not for hauling stuff around - but sometimes useful for a bit of bait, though

The sample builds shown here are very uncompromisingly specialised, e.g. with a jump range of 0.5 ly, one could not do CGs, wing up with a miner or similar. Would there be something like a compromise that might allow me to cruise in the open without being an easy victim, but still able to do "normal" gameplay stuff? Or is it either full PvP or stay in Solo?

... but also the OP nature of the mini-gimbal.

I did not even know such a thing exists
Does that mean they do some kind of micro-aiming for you? Think I'll need to revisit another engineer very soon

-

Get a 6B Power Plant and put Grade 5 Armored mod on it. You will be constantly under fire from railguns in PvP.

The 6B has higher integrity, right?

I would recommend trying 2 large cannons and 2 medium plasmas too.

There appears to be no way to avoid the PAs
I do not like them so much due to excessive power draw, heat and slow traveling shots. In the PvE world, after a lot of experimenting with a lot of weapons it turned out the cannons sit best with me, and at times I feel they are even more effective against hull than PAs.

However, PvP is sure another story, and I will rethink all this.

You guys are awesome, thanks and o7!

 

[PeLucheuh]

I was just looking for Cmdr PeLucheuh's build to post here too

It's an ok template to build from, but I wouldn't advice anyone to jump straight into that hull-build and think they can do what he does with it

Thank you guys.

@OP Already a lot of good feedback has been written.
There are different FAS loadout. You have to find the best for you and then practice if you want to improve. May i suggest you to give the PvP Hub a try.

edit : you should wait for 3.0 to build your ship (prepare it with all 2.4 g5 mods and convert it when 3.0 drop on the 27th).

 

[Hans v Martell]

prepare it with all 2.4 g5 mods and convert it when 3.0 drop on the 27th

One more valuable hint. Think I'll forget about the present CG and hurry on an engineer round trip instead [up]

 

[Arguendo]

The sample builds shown here are very uncompromisingly specialised, e.g. with a jump range of 0.5 ly, one could not do CGs, wing up with a miner or similar. Would there be something like a compromise that might allow me to cruise in the open without being an easy victim, but still able to do "normal" gameplay stuff? Or is it either full PvP or stay in Solo?

You don't need a full PvP build to survive, but you do need one if you want to be reasonably able to fight back. Survival isn't that hard, but killing the opponent is.
For the FSD, I usually run a 4D or a 4A in my FdL. The speed difference is really miniscule imo, so I'd rather have something useful in that slot. Then there are those who are lowwake-purists, and will berate you if you highwake out of a fight. I tend to ignore them as well

I did not even know such a thing exists
Does that mean they do some kind of micro-aiming for you? Think I'll need to revisit another engineer very soon

Yes, they micro-aim a little bit of you. The effect doesn't get bigger, but it gets more pronounced when at long ranges. You basically just need to have your target somewhat in the center and you'll hit it. The mini-gimbal works both for just targeting the opponent, and for module targeting.

Thank you guys.

Well, you do somewhat set the FAS standard atm. Not a lot of players can make a hull-build viable in today's game :O

edit : you should wait for 3.0 to build your ship (prepare it with all 2.4 g5 mods and convert it when 3.0 drop on the 27th).

Most definitely recommended!

 

[The Replicated Man]

The 6B has higher integrity, right?

Correct. A nice roll should net you about 320 integrity

 

[Hans v Martell]

Ok, how do you then cope with the reduced power output? My present build is at like 98% power usage with an A grade PP, and that is not using plasmas. Is prioritizing down some modules sufficient to keep everything running?

 

[UnhappyDev]

Ok, how do you then cope with the reduced power output? My present build is at like 98% power usage with an A grade PP, and that is not using plasmas. Is prioritizing down some modules sufficient to keep everything running?

Looking at your build, you can free up some power by:

- Removing a shield booster and replacing with a chaff launcher
- Replacing the C3 FSD interdictor with a C2
- Downgrading your FSD
- Setting priorities of cargo hatch and interdictor
- With current version of engineers you could also look for good secondaries on power draw....don't bother though as 3.0 is nearly here.

EDIT: Get rid of the cargo rack and replace with a MRP!