Retributor Testing

[DemiserofD]

I've always wondered if Retributors work. I decided to test it out today. I arranged a target sidewinder to sit still and be shot at; the Sidewinder, according to testing by others, has a heat capacity of 211 BTU. Its resting heat was 38%.

First, I fired a vanilla Retributor at it until it got the 'heat warning' alert. That took 28 seconds.

Second, I fired an engineered long-range retributor at it, with thermal shock experimental. This took 10 seconds.

Lastly, I shot both at it. This took 6 seconds.

Conclusion 1: Retributors DO apply heat to the target.

Conclusion 2: Heat capped out around 90%.

There is 110 BTU between 38% and 90%.

110/28 = 4. Retributor adds 4 BTU/sec
110/10=11. Thermal Shock Retributor adds 11 BTU/sec.
Both together adds 18.33 BTU/sec. 11+4=15 BTU/sec.

This doesn't add up. Assume some default heat dissipation rate: If 3 BTU/sec, then 7+14 = 18+3=21 CHECKS OUT. More or less.

So if we assume that is correct, then the Retributor adds 7 BTU, and thermal shock adds 7, so they're basically identical.

---

I did some testing on NPCs as well; while it could not cause NPCs to overheat, it did seem to significantly reduce their rate of fire and boosting, as they tried to keep from going over 100% heat. So while it's not good at increasing your damage, it can be fairly effective at reducing damage taken.

Overall, they're (slightly) better than I expected, and I'm planning to try to fit them into my build somehow.

 

[Vedmo]

it did seem to significantly reduce their rate of fire and boosting

I've observed the same with thermal shock, noticeable difference in enemy ship behavior in CZ's. I'd forgotten Retributors existed, but for me the damage cut on them from a regular beam makes them a no go. Fun to play around with stuff though, so thanks for the info!

 

[BelExandor]

The problem with them (and the pulse disruptor) is that they do less outright damage than a normal weapon of the same size. That's a can 'o worms though as nearly ALL the powerplay weapons are flawed this way.

Thermal shock definitely makes NPCs more passive though as you've concluded. The best use for it that I;ve found is to put it on rapid fire pulse lasers. Even spec-ops ships become passive when you are keeping them pegged at 90% heat constantly. Less boost, no cell banking, less firing of hot weapons and they will pop every heatsink they have one after another.
Retributors could be a great utility/defensive weapon, but only against NPCs and only if your build can afford to give up some damage dealt for the sake of utility.

 

[DemiserofD]

I've observed the same with thermal shock, noticeable difference in enemy ship behavior in CZ's. I'd forgotten Retributors existed, but for me the damage cut on them from a regular beam makes them a no go. Fun to play around with stuff though, so thanks for the info!

The one thing I'd consider is that small weapons tend to be a fairly small component of your total damage, anyway. You lose about 6 DPS swapping from a fixed beam to a Retributor, which, depending on what you're doing/what ship you're using, could be a fair trade for significantly reduced damage taken.

It WOULD be nice if the Retributor didn't use so much power, though.

 

[Elpapo]

Retributor next to useless compared to rest of PP weps out there and without a single doubt, its worst of them all.

High distro draw and halfed dmg is not worth having thermal shock as bulid in effect. Better to use regular beams with TS, it will outpreform and beat Retributor in any scenarios where TS could be used.

Heat cap makes it also not very punishing against opponents to use TS at all, and good lord, using that against anyone who has TC is not good idea either, atleast until Fontier will finnaly fix TC.

The problem with them (and the pulse disruptor) is that they do less outright damage than a normal weapon of the same size.

Pulse disruptor it has very nice and niche ability that is not well known, and its what makes it actually awesome.
This weapon effect, unlike scramble spectum(wich is totaly random), when targeting sub-modules with it, will actually causes manufunction only to modules wich hits it. This is very nice in PVP, and you dont ever wanna be on victim side without shields against those who uses it and can actually aim. A pair of those, with focused at g5, can cause errors to FSD or PP in mere seconds once shields are down to almost any ship. And its probly most underrated weapon of all.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Nice thread! I learned something new (heating up NPCs, which I never considered) so thanks for discussing 'new' stuff for me!

 

[Rubbernuke]

They also reheat lasagna really well

 

[CaptainPugwash]

Retributor next to useless compared to rest of PP weps out there and without a single doubt, its worst of them all.

High distro draw and halfed dmg is not worth having thermal shock as bulid in effect. Better to use regular beams with TS, it will outpreform and beat Retributor in any scenarios where TS could be used.

Heat cap makes it also not very punishing against opponents to use TS at all, and good lord, using that against anyone who has TC is not good idea either, atleast until Fontier will finnaly fix TC.


Pulse disruptor it has very nice and niche ability that is not well known, and its what makes it actually awesome.
This weapon effect, unlike scramble spectum(wich is totaly random), when targeting sub-modules with it, will actually causes manufunction only to modules wich hits it. This is very nice in PVP, and you dont ever wanna be on victim side without shields against those who uses it and can actually aim. A pair of those, with focused at g5, can cause errors to FSD or PP in mere seconds once shields are down to almost any ship. And its probly most underrated weapon of all.

Thanks for the info! Presumably they work on NPCs as well?

 

[DemiserofD]

Retributor next to useless compared to rest of PP weps out there and without a single doubt, its worst of them all.

I'd say the Mining Lance is unarguably the worst pp weapon now, ever since the engineered small mining laser was released and outclassed it entirely.

High distro draw and halfed dmg is not worth having thermal shock as bulid in effect. Better to use regular beams with TS, it will outpreform and beat Retributor in any scenarios where TS could be used.

That's not ENTIRELY true. For example, you could use a retributor to have both thermal shock and another effect on a single weapon slot. I've been considering putting the regen effect on it, for example, so I could use it to tag allies. Alternatively, for pure heat generation, a single retributor with thermal shock seems to be 200% as strong as a standard beam laser with thermal shock, which could mean, for example, being able to use just one of them and then having a slot available for something else.

For example, you could have one Thermal Shock Retributor, and one Scramble Sequence Burst Laser, even further inhibiting your target's performance. You'll only sacrifice about 5 DPS, which could be a fair trade for cutting your target's DPS and boost rate in half.

Of course, that's contingent on whether or not 2x thermal shock is enough to meaningfully impact the AI, which is something I'm definitely not sure of. In my tests against a stationary T10, it only took it from ~28% to ~36%, but while shooting/boosting/etc, obviously it could make a much larger difference, so I'll just have to test that out more extensively. However, even if it DOES take more than 2x, you may be able to get away with 3x, which is far more than you'd ever sacrifice on a reasonable build, but which still leaves you with one experimental slot left if you take 2x retributors, so you could have 1x Thermal Shock Retributor, and 1x Regenerative Sequence Retributor, and still have overall greater utility than you could get with thermal shock alone.

 

[Elpapo]

Thanks for the info! Presumably they work on NPCs as well?

Yes, it should work on npcs as well. You can stop thier FSD from chargin, or reset shields recharge, or cause them to spin erratically if drives took few a shots as well.
Trick is to make sure that pulse disrubtor hits atleast few times (modules need to take some dmg from it, so decent aim skills are required as this is only fixed).
But not sure about whenever its worth to force malfunction on npcs powerplants or thier distros, as they seem like not care much if that happens to them, but neverless, powerplant should be always had priority to take out first once thier shields are down due its fastest to kill them outright.
There is also cooldown between after one malfunction and before next, but I dont exacly remeber how long it was... its 10 or 15sec, its stated on patch notes from few years back when it was last time devs tinkered with.

Thats why its way more better than scramble spectrum, due that one can actually force a malfunction on desired place, rather than relyin on RNG.

 

[DNA-Decay]

The Alliance Tea Cozy!
At AEDC HQ we always used to joke that if you fired on a few canisters of Wheat with a Retribution Lazer that you could make Alliance Freedom Bread.

There's "awesome" video of Vectron and Steve with an Anaconda fully loaded with Retribution Lazers firing on a Sidewinder.
This was pre "buff" but they couldn't even get the Sidewinder to pop.

I wonder if I can find the video?

[edit]
Yup: Vectron was one of the best CMDRs in Alliance Leadership.