Rift CV1 and SteamVR

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

I'm not clear on the differences between the Rift CV1 software and that available for the Rift:

As I understand it, the Rift can be used with SteamVR, thus enabling desktop support, 2D games support etc while wearing a CV1 (or a Vive) - is this true? Or are you stuck with the less-full features of the CV1 software suite.

Has anyone got their CV1 and is using SteamVR for their (out of ED) VR experience yet i.e. watching movies, 2D gaming etc?

 

[VR Dextrovix]

My CV1 won't arrive until next week, but my DK2 with the same runtime as CV1 works in SteamVR, so apart from the quality point of view it's the same thing.

I've tried 2D games in the Theatre mode, and performance as adequate although the frame rate can drop a little. The games actually show full screen on your monitor, and are rendered again in the headset which looks like it would in real life if you were sitting in front of a projector. Movies render in the same fashion, and several times whilst quitting the game it briefly shows my desktop in my headset in Threatre mode too before reverting. I used to use VorpX for both of these before it was native to Steam, but may do again when VorpX is release to work with the new runtime.

With any VR title written for SteamVR, it will work with CV1 (as long as a prerequisite isn't motion tracked controllers) but the results are more lag, because you have to launch Oculus Home first and therefore SteamVR has to talk through that software layer too, rather than natively like it can with other headsets. Therefore there are several Vive titles released 5th April (again I'm still a couple of weeks away from that too) that use SteamVR that my DK2 would display, but without those controllers they won't be playable.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

With any VR title written for SteamVR, it will work with CV1 (as long as a prerequisite isn't motion tracked controllers) but the results are more lag, because you have to launch Oculus Home first and therefore SteamVR has to talk through that software layer too, rather than natively like it can with other headsets. Therefore there are several Vive titles released 5th April (again I'm still a couple of weeks away from that too) that use SteamVR that my DK2 would display, but without those controllers they won't be playable.

does anyone know if steamVR is a hmd only thing or will it include motion controllers as well?

ie will touch work in place of vive wands once they come out, or will they need to be specifically supported?

As a HMD for me the rift is great, but i gotta admit, full room VR has got me tempted to cancel..... The Lab, a valve collection of short experiences looks fab and i really hope it works on cv1 with touch.

 

[VR Dextrovix]

SteamVR works with motion controllers and detects them when present, but it isn't mandatory although games that use those features won't work without.

Valve want Steam to support most HMDs because they simply want to sell as many titles as possible through their service via SteamVR. They support Oculus Rift out of the box, and speculation has it that when the Touch controllers are released, they will be supported. Again, that would be justified because it means more money in Valve's pockets.

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As for which headset, I've got both coming as I want a room scale setup, and a sit down version for different games. However, so far any title seems to be eventually coming out for both, so I'll see how things go over the next year before I may just take an all-in-one solution.

My persoanl conflicts are I've got a lot of titles on Steam, and I really don't want to start using Oculus Home for buying titles that may not then work on Vive, whereas buying from Steam should mean it'll support both.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

SteamVR works with motion controllers and detects them when present, but it isn't mandatory although games that use those features won't work without.

Sure, I was just wondering if you know if steamVR detects (oculus) touch controllers and supports them accordingly (ie allows them to work in vive full room titles*

(I know we have a few devs in here so just after an inside scoop )

*each day i am getting more tempted to buy a vive, i think without the wait time i would probably go vive now if honest)

 

[VR Dextrovix]

Well, no I don't know 100% (I just spend a lot of time in and around VR), but I cannot see any logic in SteamVR not support Touch, it even refers to controllers in an agnostic sense in the GUI. As I said, support means more sales to Valve, and there is no benefit to them in not supporting it.

So, if a game launches with a room-scale expectation, it will still be SteamVR running the show and therefore whichever headset is present, it will work. How well it does is the key, although the range on a DK2 works (we can walk around ED ships now!).

As far as SteamVR goes, the gating of titles so far is just they won't install without SteamVR detecting controllers (presumably to stop us DK2 people from getting those free launch Vive titles for nothing).

 

[ZeeWolf]

Sure, I was just wondering if you know if steamVR detects (oculus) touch controllers and supports them accordingly (ie allows them to work in vive full room titles*

(I know we have a few devs in here so just after an inside scoop )

*each day i am getting more tempted to buy a vive, i think without the wait time i would probably go vive now if honest)

Maybe relevant

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4dk56n/valve_on_using_the_rift_with_chaperonesteamvr/

 

[VR Dextrovix]

Maybe relevant

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4dk56n/valve_on_using_the_rift_with_chaperonesteamvr/

Wow, lots of chat going on there. General consensus there seems like I'm suggesting- it's in Valve's interest to integrate Touch too, once they can get hold of the hardware. Because support = profit $$$.

 

[Arithon]

does anyone know if steamVR is a hmd only thing or will it include motion controllers as well?

ie will touch work in place of vive wands once they come out, or will they need to be specifically supported?

As a HMD for me the rift is great, but i gotta admit, full room VR has got me tempted to cancel..... The Lab, a valve collection of short experiences looks fab and i really hope it works on cv1 with touch.

Both devices (Vive & Rift) support full room VR. The Rift just won't ship with it. Unless the motion controllers for the rift cost more than £160, then the Vive is just offering room tracking an motion sensors earlier.

 

[ZeeWolf]

So it sounds like Valve are all set to support the touch controllers when they release and are wisely positioning themselves to be main player in VR software rather than attempting to monopolise the Vive. Not really surprising as I'm sure their partnership with HTC allowed them to understand and develop with an emerging market they want to be a key player in, rather than simply hoping to scrape short term profits.

It will be very interesting to see how Rift vs Vive plays out and whether the rift provides a complete room scale experience in a few months, whether they release additional hard-ware (second sensor, camera?) to upgrade CV1 to something that essentially matches and how the prices change.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

the second sensor comes bundled with the touch controllers..

I guess i am hoping for too much but I am really hoping they ship a 2 camera system with touch, (as touch apparently needs 2 cameras in front of you for the high detailed tracking of touch) and then that frees up the existing camera for a slighly lower resolution, more vive like tracking for when turning around 180 degrees.

I have said it elsewhere, but oculus are already in bed with MS... they should just ship a kinect 2 with touch

 

[ZeeWolf]

the second sensor comes bundled with the touch controllers..

Hadn't even noticed all the marketing material shows it working with two sensors!

Darn it, if they get that portal robot factory thing working with the rift+touch I'm going to have to buy the touch to go with my free Kickstarter CV1.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Hadn't even noticed all the marketing material shows it working with two sensors!

Darn it, if they get that portal robot factory thing working with the rift+touch I'm going to have to buy the touch to go with my free Kickstarter CV1.

trying to feel sympathy at you shelling out cash to get touch controllers to go with your FREE CV1......

still trying.........

no... cant manage it. Sorry

(clearly i am only joking, and I am green as hell that you had the confidence in oculus when it mattered, where as i hovered over the kickstarter button for $300 and then walked away.)

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Both devices (Vive & Rift) support full room VR. The Rift just won't ship with it. Unless the motion controllers for the rift cost more than £160, then the Vive is just offering room tracking an motion sensors earlier.

the only issue really is oculus are claiming the touch needs 2 cameras in front of you to get the proper tracking.... which then leaves a lack of tracking options when you turn your back...

oh and the other thing, vive went with giant sticks with a circle on the end for a reason....... it is so they are easier to be picked up by the tracking light houses... the touch controllers are gorgeous in comparison, so small and erganomic..... but i think that is 1 reason why oculus feel they need 2 cameras to circumvent occlusion.

 

[ZeeWolf]

Heh, I remember thinking a little over £200 for a virtual reality display seemed like a no-brainier considering how much they had cost in the 90's

I had imagined myself installing Unity and making home-brew virtual reality experiences. Instead I used it to make YouTube videos of Elite Dangerous Alpha/Beta and occasionally made dinner guests sick.

Then it was collecting dust after everyone else had moved onto the DK2 which I never had the chance to experience.

Yesterday the UPS man delivered my free CV1. Holy cow has it come on light years since the 2013 edition. The dreamdeck thing that plays after you set the thing up is an experience on par with going to the imax for the first time, especially when the big T-Rex crushes you. I can see why they packaged in some high quality headphones.

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

the only issue really is oculus are claiming the touch needs 2 cameras in front of you to get the proper tracking.... which then leaves a lack of tracking options when you turn your back...

oh and the other thing, vive went with giant sticks with a circle on the end for a reason....... it is so they are easier to be picked up by the tracking light houses... the touch controllers are gorgeous in comparison, so small and erganomic..... but i think that is 1 reason why oculus feel they need 2 cameras to circumvent occlusion.

The Vive and the CV1 will almost certainly suffer from similar tracking issues.

The CV1 rift has LED's in the back of the head strap (the triangular bit) that allow it to track even when you've turned around. Even with one sensor. So the head tracking is fine, and that's the important bit taken care of (not needing a bucket nearby [ugh]). Two sensors will only improve that.

Occlusion will always be a potential issue for the Touch controllers, as they're likely to be blocked by your body etc.
But I don't think the different shapes of the Touch vs Vive controllers will affect the tracking all that much - they're both fairly small and easily occluded regardless of the shape. The Vive setup comes with two lighthouses, yes, but when Touch ships and Oculus explain their tracking setup, I expect the playing field to be levelled.

Plus, future revisions may have more sensors etc as the price comes down. 3 or even four sensors will allow all-around tracking with virtually no occlusion.

Oculus' ergonomics and the general industrial design is quite a ways ahead of the Vive. YMMV but anyone qualified will hand the design ribbon to Palmer Luckey.
Oculus main push was to produce the hardware, and let the developers and their software make sense of it as time goes on. SteamVR might be ahead with their interface/integration etc but that's just software and you can't change a strap with a new driver version.

 

[VR Dextrovix]

...Oculus main push was to produce the hardware, and let the developers and their software make sense of it as time goes on. SteamVR might be ahead with their interface/integration etc but that's just software and you can't change a strap with a new driver version.

The thing is, I think software is more important, certainly for the relevant camp's future success. Despite the hardware maybe being more optimal from the former and considering Oculus brought consumer VR to the masses, I can't see how Oculus is going to make as much profit for their efforts when they are competing with Steam for software sales, which is already established.

In the same way that Sony doesn't make much from a console which is sold at virtually cost price, it's all about the software afterwards, and I feel that because Steam will allow native Oculus and SteamVR titles go on their store, Oculus Store will host only titles that support their headset. Which means I won't buy a title from Oculus Store when I don't have a similar flexibility, and to me that says that SteamVR and by extension Steam is going to make more from sales than Oculus.

For a lot of people, once they have their ideal headset and controller in a few months time, all future revenue will be generated from software sales.

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

The thing is, I think software is more important, certainly for the relevant camp's future success. Despite the hardware maybe being more optimal from the former and considering Oculus brought consumer VR to the masses, I can't see how Oculus is going to make as much profit for their efforts when they are competing with Steam for software sales, which is already established.

In the same way that Sony doesn't make much from a console which is sold at virtually cost price, it's all about the software afterwards, and I feel that because Steam will allow native Oculus and SteamVR titles go on their store, Oculus Store will host only titles that support their headset. Which means I won't buy a title from Oculus Store when I don't have a similar flexibility, and to me that says that SteamVR and by extension Steam is going to make more from sales than Oculus.

For a lot of people, once they have their ideal headset and controller in a few months time, all future revenue will be generated from software sales.

Yep, I agree, Valve is set to make more money since the Steam interface is a better established point of sale. And I agree that software is important too - since that will define many of the features and functinality of the HMD (including the games software in which we hope the developers will find new and enjoyable ways to use VR without making us puke in the process.

Oculus is definitely behind in the software stakes - what I was getting at is that the HMD itself appears to be a better design - and that's harder to change than the software, which could evolve rapidly to Steam level in a year or less (Steam's popularity as a portal aside).

 

[Bakkster]

oh and the other thing, vive went with giant sticks with a circle on the end for a reason....... it is so they are easier to be picked up by the tracking light houses... the touch controllers are gorgeous in comparison, so small and erganomic..... but i think that is 1 reason why oculus feel they need 2 cameras to circumvent occlusion.

Vive has no tracking sensors on the 'stick' portion, to my knowledge. If anything, the Touch ring of LEDs is slightly larger than the Vive's ring. There shouldn't be a big difference in which handles occlusion better.

Really the big difference is Vive is tracking the 'wand' just in front of your hand, while Touch tracks immediately surrounding your hand.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

but the sticks mean the ring which does have the laser pickups on are further away from your meat suit so less likely to be occluded.

 

[Soda Popinski]

but the sticks mean the ring which does have the laser pickups on are further away from your meat suit so less likely to be occluded.

I haven't tried the Touch, but folks who have mention it is much better at representing your hand, and is better for "grabbings" stuff. The Vive controllers on the other hand feel better as a tool.

Each controller has it's pluses and minuses. I was playing Hordez in the Vive where you have a pistol and a flashlight ("torch" for you Brits). In the standard grip, the flashlight emits light on the top. I prefer to hold it "X-Files Style"

With the Vive controller, I was able to flip the flashlight upside down, steady my pistol hand on top of my flashlight wrist, while still pointing the light at the approaching zombie horde. I don't think I could do that with the Touch controllers.

Yet the Vive controllers seem awkward picking things up. It's been compared to stabbing things with a stick, unlike the Touch which feels like picking stuff up with your hands.