RIP Smuggling (Discussion of smuggling changes in 1.3.01)

Nonya

Banned
On the flip side I just made 300K with two smuggling missions.
Not bad money for an Eagle to be making when it was one jump & a short supercruise

Battle weapons and combat stabiliser, no need to debase myself trading People
 
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The initial 8k p/t profit was ridiculous. They then went and slashed it by half on monday, whereupon I thought, great. Much better. Not silly profit, but considering the risk, made sense. And then with 1.3.01 it got slashed in half again. Sure, 2k p/t profit isn't bad per se, but considering the risk, the distances usually involved *and* there seldom being something worthwhile to haul on the return-trip - not even close to being worth it.

FD went from one extreme to the other, with just a brief one day pause in the sweet-spot. Please get us back to the sweet-spot. Pretty please with sugar on top :)
 
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Where is that coming from? Since when should smuggling only be smuggling if done via missions?
The fundamental issue with non-mission smuggling come from the fact that illegal status for a commodity doesn't artificially drive prices higher as it does in RL, and that there is virtually no risk involved (sadly lack of risk applies to more than just smuggling) , making it not only almost as boring as space trucking, but also less profitable than regular trading.
There are some edge cases where you can make good money doing it, but these are usually side effects of badly thought mechanics or just plain bugs, such as the one discussed in the OP.
And no amount of missions or PP mechanics will fix the underlying problem of the background simulation not dealing correctly with the legal status of goods. And the worrying thing is, FD seem to have trouble really understanding that judging by the fact that for a long time they didn't even make the difference between stolen and illegal goods, and that at last they merely removed the 50% malus on illegal goods, where illegal goods should obviously be on super-high demand (although in small quantities) and therefore sell much, much higher than the gal average (and don't get me started on artificial price ceilings).
I shouldn't have to rely on the special mechanics of specific PP factions to actually make money by smuggling. The inhabited bubble is bigger than that, and I'm pretty sure wherever there are laws, there is a lot of money to be made breaking them if you are skilled enough. Sadly this is only true in a few places atm, and skill doesn't even come into play.

Good sir. I believe you quiet nailed the issue with FD's take on smuggling. +1 for you. Also I think what we need is seriously boosted profit from smuggling but only achievable through actually skillful manoeuvrings/use of specialized smuggling modules (basically a much better risk/reward balance).
 
Ok so i was hoping for a change today reguarding prices but nothing. I tried Imp Slaves, Battle Weapons and Personal Weapons and took them to a black market in Archon Delaine exploited system. All were in high demand but i got 1.1k/t profit from Slaves and 1.2k/t profit from the other 2. Given that the slaves should of had a +10% bonus too i dont think its worth it at all.

However there are still the smuggling missions.
 
Consider you'll have to travel at least 120ly (10+ jumps in a loaded ship) to get this 4k/ton though.. Not more profitable than any old 2k round trip trade route.
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But imagine they left the bonuses as is. You would have 6 to 8k smuggling routes (120+ ly long). People looking for profit would start to smuggle massively to archon controlled systems. How long until the pirates who play there realize this and start pirating massively?

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Um, no they (the pirates won't) have lots of targets.. it is possible to do those jumps/runs in solo/private.
 
Um, no they (the pirates won't) have lots of targets.. it is possible to do those jumps/runs in solo/private.

Ah yes, the 'let's not try to foster player interactions cause people will go to solo' argument. Personally:
As far as the 'i can just go to solo', yeah.. you can already grind billions in solo today without risk so who cares.
But you're welcome to disagree.

All I was trying to say in the post you quoted is that had Frontier kept the power bonuses as they planned for release (after fixing the bug that led to 8k single jump routes all over archon exploited systems), there would be a risky smuggling ecosystem by the end of this week. Yes it would be pvp based, and people could bypass it by going to solo. But let's face it.. that's probably the best we can hope to get for a long time. There are some great ideas in the 5,000 words replies in this thread to actually enhance smuggling, but if I were to take a guess the 'Improve smuggling mechanics' task sits pretty far down Frontier's TODO list.

It seems reading this thread that people find smuggling is a/ still boring, and b/ still not profitable (and I'd agree with both). My crystal ball tells me it will stay like this for a while if we have to wait for code changes. I hope I'm wrong though.
 
.... I have never really liked the emphasis on speed. Just a matter of preference....

Actually, you know what? I totally get this. I'd like to see a mechanism introduced that gave you pros and cons for different styles of smuggling.

Perhaps speed, itself, should increase your chances of being detected.

An F-22 may have the radar signature of a bird, but a good radar operator should know that birds tend not to fly at Mach 1.9...

Perhaps speed should be added as a detection method mechanic, along with range to target and heat signature...

Z...
 
Actually, I find so much profitables smuggling missions I think I will specialize until 1.4.

1.1 Trade = Money
1.2 Bounty Hunting in Res = Money
1.3 Smuggling missions = Money

Yeah the smuggling missions seems to be where the money is at in smuggling right now. But is that the way its supposed to be with 1 factions bonus`s giving a boost to slave trade and another boosting black market yet even with both of these boosts its rarely actually worth it. Seems like its a whole waste of time having the boosts there in the first place tbh.
 
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Right now, after the nerf, I'm not feeling the effort of long one-way-profit smuggling trips in my new Python are actually worth it now.

If they'd get rid of that dumb time-sink rule to make rare's spawn in random fractions of your total allowance, I'd be doing my rare circuit in a flash right now.

Have to see if there is a regular short-range commodity run back in my home space that gives me better results for time spent with this new larger cargo capacity I have.

Otherwise, I might just swap ships and head to a RES as this is getting boring.
 
Right now, after the nerf, I'm not feeling the effort of long one-way-profit smuggling trips in my new Python are actually worth it now.

If they'd get rid of that dumb time-sink rule to make rare's spawn in random fractions of your total allowance, I'd be doing my rare circuit in a flash right now.

Have to see if there is a regular short-range commodity run back in my home space that gives me better results for time spent with this new larger cargo capacity I have.

Otherwise, I might just swap ships and head to a RES as this is getting boring.

Yeah - I agree with this. That is really just stupid waste of time. I understand limiting the amounts, but then drip feeding it is insulting.

Z...
 
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