CQC Roll back 2.1 changes to CQC

[dutchy2000]

Please FDev, hear me out on why this is a good thing.

When 2.1 went live you applied all the nerfs in the main game to CQC, most notably:

1. Silent running heat increases. This was because of rail de lances in the main game wih silent running. This build was possible due to great heat dissipation on the FDL, ability to stack 6 heat sinks on it. In CQC you can't use heat sinks and silent running at the same time, so it makes no sense to nerf a marginal ability in CQC with this heat thing. In CQC silent running worked differently anyway, it didn't drop you from the radar, you can still be targeted it is just that the target box is super small.
2. Heat sink nerf. There is only a single ship that can actually use heat sinks and that is the eagle. It can't use anything else in combination. So in essence you removed 1/3 of the defensive capabilities of the eagle. The eagle is the premier target in CQC because it doesn't have great shields like the side winder and it can't chaff. So everyone just shoots the eagle because it easy. And you NERFED the main target of everyone else. In fact I think the eagle should get at least 4 heat sinks.

Now the thing that really makes me wonder what you guys were thinking, you NEVER applied any of the buffs from the main game to CQC. Namely the speed increase in projectiles. The cannon rounds were made faster to compete better with other weapons in the main game, but in CQC they remain as slow as ever. I challenge ANY dev to fight me in the arena with cannons or rapid cannons and you will know how futile it is use them against anyone but the most noobish of players. They need more speed.

TL;DR please revert the nerfs from 2.1 and apply the buffs so more than one or two builds are actually viable in CQC.

 

[SushiCW]

Please FDev, hear me out on why this is a good thing.

When 2.1 went live you applied all the nerfs in the main game to CQC, most notably:

1. Silent running heat increases. This was because of rail de lances in the main game wih silent running. This build was possible due to great heat dissipation on the FDL, ability to stack 6 heat sinks on it. In CQC you can't use heat sinks and silent running at the same time, so it makes no sense to nerf a marginal ability in CQC with this heat thing. In CQC silent running worked differently anyway, it didn't drop you from the radar, you can still be targeted it is just that the target box is super small.
2. Heat sink nerf. There is only a single ship that can actually use heat sinks and that is the eagle. It can't use anything else in combination. So in essence you removed 1/3 of the defensive capabilities of the eagle. The eagle is the premier target in CQC because it doesn't have great shields like the side winder and it can't chaff. So everyone just shoots the eagle because it easy. And you NERFED the main target of everyone else. In fact I think the eagle should get at least 4 heat sinks.

Now the thing that really makes me wonder what you guys were thinking, you NEVER applied any of the buffs from the main game to CQC. Namely the speed increase in projectiles. The cannon rounds were made faster to compete better with other weapons in the main game, but in CQC they remain as slow as ever. I challenge ANY dev to fight me in the arena with cannons or rapid cannons and you will know how futile it is use them against anyone but the most noobish of players. They need more speed.

TL;DR please revert the nerfs from 2.1 and apply the buffs so more than one or two builds are actually viable in CQC.

Pretty sure rapid cannons were already faster than in the main game even before 2.1. I think they go 1000 m/s. But the smallest ship sizes mean that they miss more easily than in the main game.

IMO this wasn't too much of a problem before the Imperial Fighter showed up with it's ultra-tiny hitbox and massive shields that didn't sacrifice kinetic resistance. Hitting Condors was very doable (against all but the 1% of players who can effectively defensive spiral), and if they had reverse-resistance shields (to deal with the more popular lasers) then you could do a ton of damage very quickly. And of course hitting Sidewinders or Eagles was never hard.

I feel like silent running pre-2.1 was pretty OP against noobs, but made for a good tradeoff against better players and shook up tactics a bit on both sides. I haven't used it (or seen it) since then so I can only take your word for it's current level of uselessness.

In general I'm in favor of unifying mechanics between CQC and the main game as much as possible, but it's clear that what's best for one isn't always best for the other (e.g. most "true" fixed weapons would be a disaster in CQC). I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't particularly want any straight reverts, but I'd love to see more design effort applied to evolving CQC.

 

[dutchy2000]

Well against noobs a tooth pick is OP, so I am discounting balancing weapons and systems on them. But I am not hopeful on any design effort being applied to CQC, but a simple revert should be minimal for them, and it will increase the amount of potential viable builds signficantly. I could list a ton of different weapons that are completely useless right now that need a balance pass, and they are ALL the sidewinder weapons, except for maybe the scatter shot, that one can be hilariously funny when used on sidewinder friday.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

More interesting decisions on outfitting would be good - the boost diverters are great: efficient, stock and super all have their benefits and fans - whereas the distributors due to the way the different capacitors work are pretty much an automatic choice at the moment, as are a lot of the other components.

Faster projectiles - and more damage per hit, I think - would definitely be needed to balance the projectile weapons.

 

[dutchy2000]

Oh and of course I forgot the biggest thing they changed in 2.1 which is completely asinine. Removed the ability to fa-off/fa-on to stop the imp fighter from spinning like crazy. For VR users it is completely vomit inducing being stuck spinning like crazy for a minute when you slightly tap anything.

 

[tgarpestad]

Oh and of course I forgot the biggest thing they changed in 2.1 which is completely asinine. Removed the ability to fa-off/fa-on to stop the imp fighter from spinning like crazy. For VR users it is completely vomit inducing being stuck spinning like crazy for a minute when you slightly tap anything.

It should be a little more forgiving for crashing your ship I agree. That should be the job of a flight-assist computer. As it is now it seems like the flight assist computer stops working when this happens.

 

[SushiCW]

Oh and of course I forgot the biggest thing they changed in 2.1 which is completely asinine. Removed the ability to fa-off/fa-on to stop the imp fighter from spinning like crazy. For VR users it is completely vomit inducing being stuck spinning like crazy for a minute when you slightly tap anything.

Actually I liked this change, the Imp needs some downsides compared to the Condor and being really unforgiving in collisions certainly counts. But "vomit-inducing" isn't ever any good either.

 

[dutchy2000]

Actually I liked this change, the Imp needs some downsides compared to the Condor and being really unforgiving in collisions certainly counts. But "vomit-inducing" isn't ever any good either.

I am sorry but the most effective way to take out an imp fighter in condor is to ram it, then leisurely turn around, laugh while it is spinning out of control and blow it up. Its like the imp fighter has 0 mass or something. When I tap something in the imp fighter I need to close my eyes in the rift and every few seconds check to see if I am still spinning as its just crazy.

 

[Oogie Boogie]

Make a video please and upload it on Youtube - I would like to see this ;-)

 

[Scoopy Doopy]

I am sorry but the most effective way to take out an imp fighter in condor is to ram it, then leisurely turn around, laugh while it is spinning out of control and blow it up. Its like the imp fighter has 0 mass or something. When I tap something in the imp fighter I need to close my eyes in the rift and every few seconds check to see if I am still spinning as its just crazy.

I ind boosting out of the spin quite effective though the direction you go in is pretty random so you can just smash into something else. Most of the time though, it gets you out of the spin sharpish.

To the OP though. I know I am a noob really but I like that there are only "style suiting" differences between things like the boost diverters. If there were big loadout choices to be made I think it would distract a little from the skill based Arena we have now.