Hardware & Technical Saitek have gone down in my estimation.

Somebody asked me to look at their Saitek X52, which'd been "glitching" randomly.

I figured that it was probably a broken wire (as opposed to a wire that'd broken at it's connection) that was causing the intermittent fault.
The truth, as it turned out, was far more convoluted.

First, a quick word about how data cables are constructed.
You've usually got a bunch of thin copper wires in PVC sheaths that are wrapped in a foil shield, there's a bare shield wire which earths the shield and then there's the outer PVC sheath covering the whole lot.

First thing to know is that the foil shield is usually made of aluminium.
The problem with aluminium is that it isn't very robust and it's prone to corrosion (even inside a cable) and the continual flexing of a cable, coupled with corrosion over a period of years, means that the foil shield will inevitably begin to break up.
This isn't a big deal since the shield wire still touches all the fragments of foil and so still does the job of absorbing any interference and sending it to earth.

Usually.

The first issue with the X52 is that it doesn't just use the shield wire (between the throttle and stick) to absorb interference.
It actually uses it as a data wire, probably as a common 0v reference (I didn't actually get around to checking that).
That isn't great but it's not a big deal.

The big deal, as it turns out, is that Saitek, at some point, decided to SERIOUSLY cheap-out over the construction of the cable between the throttle and stick.
What they've done is build the cables with around 6" of shield wire at one end and another 6" at the other end, so it can be soldered.
The shield wire does NOT run all the way through the cable.
Instead, there's just a tail of wire which enters the cable, touching the foil wrap, and then relies on the foil wrap to carry the signal from the stick to the throttle.

The same foil wrap which corrodes and breaks up over time.

Turns out that's the problem this X52 had.
The foil wrap in the cable had broken up and, as a result, there was no way for the throttle to get a reliable 0v reference so the inputs were all over the place.
I tested this by quickly soldering a thin wire between the throttle and joystick to provide a reliable replacement for the signal normally sent through the shield wire.
That fixed the problem but it's a bodge, with an extra wire running between the throttle and stick.

So, now I need to chop up an old printer lead, or something, and use that to make a replacement cable between the throttle and stick.


I'm wondering if this is one of the things that's resulted in Saitek having an iffy reputation?
Seems like a company would, originally, build a product with a proper shield wire and that'd be fine but then, perhaps in an attempt to cut costs, try changing to this cheaper (?) method on the assumption that the stick would be broken or obsolete by the time the foil wrap corroded to the point where it couldn't carry a signal reliably.

Anyway, if you've got a Saitek X52 that's randomly "spazzing out", this could be your problem.
It's fixable but it's a faff.
 
Their reputation dropped like a stone when MadKatz took over. This was probably the reason. Now that Logitech are in control, things *might* improve, but there's a race to the bottom with cost/quality so I'd not bet anything valuable on it.

Mines mostly ok, but that doesn't mean it won't fail...
 
Somebody asked me to look at their Saitek X52, which'd been "glitching" randomly.

I figured that it was probably a broken wire (as opposed to a wire that'd broken at it's connection) that was causing the intermittent fault.
The truth, as it turned out, was far more convoluted.

First, a quick word about how data cables are constructed.
You've usually got a bunch of thin copper wires in PVC sheaths that are wrapped in a foil shield, there's a bare shield wire which earths the shield and then there's the outer PVC sheath covering the whole lot.

First thing to know is that the foil shield is usually made of aluminium.
The problem with aluminium is that it isn't very robust and it's prone to corrosion (even inside a cable) and the continual flexing of a cable, coupled with corrosion over a period of years, means that the foil shield will inevitably begin to break up.
This isn't a big deal since the shield wire still touches all the fragments of foil and so still does the job of absorbing any interference and sending it to earth.

Usually.

The first issue with the X52 is that it doesn't just use the shield wire (between the throttle and stick) to absorb interference.
It actually uses it as a data wire, probably as a common 0v reference (I didn't actually get around to checking that).
That isn't great but it's not a big deal.

The big deal, as it turns out, is that Saitek, at some point, decided to SERIOUSLY cheap-out over the construction of the cable between the throttle and stick.
What they've done is build the cables with around 6" of shield wire at one end and another 6" at the other end, so it can be soldered.
The shield wire does NOT run all the way through the cable.
Instead, there's just a tail of wire which enters the cable, touching the foil wrap, and then relies on the foil wrap to carry the signal from the stick to the throttle.

The same foil wrap which corrodes and breaks up over time.

Turns out that's the problem this X52 had.
The foil wrap in the cable had broken up and, as a result, there was no way for the throttle to get a reliable 0v reference so the inputs were all over the place.
I tested this by quickly soldering a thin wire between the throttle and joystick to provide a reliable replacement for the signal normally sent through the shield wire.
That fixed the problem but it's a bodge, with an extra wire running between the throttle and stick.

So, now I need to chop up an old printer lead, or something, and use that to make a replacement cable between the throttle and stick.


I'm wondering if this is one of the things that's resulted in Saitek having an iffy reputation?
Seems like a company would, originally, build a product with a proper shield wire and that'd be fine but then, perhaps in an attempt to cut costs, try changing to this cheaper (?) method on the assumption that the stick would be broken or obsolete by the time the foil wrap corroded to the point where it couldn't carry a signal reliably.

Anyway, if you've got a Saitek X52 that's randomly "spazzing out", this could be your problem.
It's fixable but it's a faff.

Yeah, they seriously 'cheaped out' a while back. The thinking may have been that gamers will buy replacement kit when the original wears out. If it was, they're complete idiots. There are so many competitors, making such good alternatives, that a single bad experience could put consumers off forever. When my X-55 Rhino failed I bodged a repair. It's a good design, poorly/cheaply executed. If I wasn't able to repair it I wouldn't even consider a new Madkatz X-55. I have high hopes for Saitek now that Logitech are in charge, but I still haven't bought a replacement X-56. Once bitten, twice shy... :(
 
Their reputation dropped like a stone when MadKatz took over. This was probably the reason. Now that Logitech are in control, things *might* improve, but there's a race to the bottom with cost/quality so I'd not bet anything valuable on it.

Mines mostly ok, but that doesn't mean it won't fail...

I really hope that the quality improves, because I love my X-56 for the way it handles and for its wonderful lay out and options.
It is the ultimate HOTAS for a spacesim like Elite in my opinion.
But... the quality is not that great.
I intend to buy the Logitech version when my current Saitek version breaks down.

If Logitech decided to build an X56 with the quality of Virpil and ask the same price as Virpil I would buy it without hesitation.
 
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Joysticks are in a woeful place in general. Yes there's the Warthog, but aside from that honestly most HOTAS products are expensive plastic junk. And we all know why: because it is a niche market.
 
Joysticks are in a woeful place in general. Yes there's the Warthog, but aside from that honestly most HOTAS products are expensive plastic junk. And we all know why: because it is a niche market.

It is changing slowly.

But yeah, Mad-catz bought Saitek in 2007 for $30 million.

Logitech bought them last year or so for $13 million, talk about wrecking a company's value..

And new comer boutique shops like VPC & VKB are forcing Thrustmaster and Logitech to step it up a notch.
There clearly is a demand for their products, neither of these, by wich inmean virpil and vkb, can keep stock in for more than a few hours by the looks of it, even though a single controller from these could buy a complete warthog hotas.

As for playing Elite or space games with these is nearly a religious experience compared to these old pot based controllers.
I really didn't think it would be this much a of step up, but it really was.
 
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I'm still waiting for a HOTAS with twist rudder that doesn't have immediate and obvious quality issues. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to happen.
 
Virpil seems to have one, although I don't like that one for other reasons.

I have been trying that for a few weeks on my t50 ginbal and it is a good grip.

But I just simply prefer the mongoose grip instead.
It's a personal opinion and honestly I found my hands a bit large for the constellation.
When using the thumb stick I would have to shift my grip or constantly bump into the hats surrounding it.

So yesterday I switched back to the mongoose grip and it simply suits my ham hands much better.
And I'm not even missing the analog thumb stick at all.

Even if that was better than your average console controller thumb stick.

And the twist action felt very precise as well.

The main two reasons I bought it was for the thumbsitck and the fact it is ambidextrous for future centre or left-side mounting.

But even though I'm the guy who has spent nearly $1500 on controller gear past six months this is still a game that is perfectly playable with a mouse and keyboard.

In fact the mouse is mostly optional as well.
 
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I'm still rocking my ancient Saitek X45 which I bought for the original "X: Beyond the Frontier" game. Apart from the rubber wearing off the mouse hat and having to repair the primary fire button (wire came loose) it's still working perfectly.

The main reason I haven't considered upgrading is because almost every HOTAS has "twist to yaw" these days. I -hate- that (yes, I tried it). I -love- the yaw rocker switch on the back of the X45 throttle, works, IMHO, so much better than twist-to-yaw.

I would buy an updated HOTAS which had a rudder-rocker on the throttle in an instant.

But yeah, back on topic, the -old- Saitek products seem to have had better quality than the newer ones.
 
You heretic... :)

I would like a twist axis mongoose. I love the Mongoose.

I'm not sure.

But from what I gather VKB is working on a twist adapter for their existing stuff that would go between gimbal and grip.

But of course that is no help if you have Virpil stuff.
And buying a Gunfighter with MCG PRO grip is another €450..
And waiting for VKB to finish designing a product..
Well they have been working on that throttle of theirs for about three years now.
I'm sure it will be released at some point, but probably at least another year off.


My suggestion.
Get rudder pedals.
It takes a little getting used to at first but there is no way back for me.
No matter how high a quality the twist is. It is biologically impossible to pull off a twist without also engaging roll or pitch most likely a combination of the two.

And it is also a motion particularly excellent at provoking repetitive stress problems.
Doesn't sound like much of an issue if your under 20, but when closer to 40 that's worth $100 to not having to deal with.

And after getting used to them I would hands on say pedals is why I'm component nailing vipers and eagles using fixed beams as my primary.

But it did take a few weeks getting used to.
 
Joysticks are in a woeful place in general. Yes there's the Warthog, but aside from that honestly most HOTAS products are expensive plastic junk. And we all know why: because it is a niche market.

Imo, the Warthog is also far from good. "Stiction" issue, far too heavy metal stick paired with plastic internals and reports of all kinds of braking mechanics after a while. It's ergonomically great, feels "expensive" and is expensive after all. On the other hand, there are now the more enthusiast and niche offerings pushed to the market by VKB and Virpil. Both somewhat make a mockery of Thrustmasters' mechanics in the Warthog. Issue is mostly availability and price of VKB/Virpil.

Then there is CH Products, which offers perfectly rugged and robust plastic mechanics in their sticks and throttles. Paired with hardware and precision straight out of the nineties, most unfortunately. If they could bring themselves to update their stick designs with more modern electronics/features, they'd be a great source for all around good flight sim hardware and not some niche within a niche.
 
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That is wonderful news.
How long have you used yours?

Got mine four months ago, not long after they released the updated version. Make sure you get the one that's actually by Logitech. You can tell it from the older versions because the printing on the base of the flight stick is gray instead of blue.
 
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