Saitek X-55 Button problem - dismantling

[gmcraib]

I'm aware it seems there is a lot of QA issues with these HOTAS, but I've had mine about 10 years and not had any major issues. Some minor issues on getting the mouse stick and nearby slider to work but I just assumed they needed software, which I dont like to use.
Has worked absolutely fine on Elite, FSX, old school flight sims and anything else I can throw at it. Admittedly not seen heavy use as I also had a yoke set up for FSX and that got a lot of use (it did break though <sigh>) but the X-55 was the only thing I used to play elite as it allows you to have a lot of controls at your fingertips.

Anyways today I noticed that the left button (#27) on the throttle bottom hat stopped working in game. Not a huge issue as I just used the right hand button to cycle through targets/UI panels. It did start working again later though, strangely enough.
Then the same thing happened with the top hat, again left direction (#24). this was an issue as this is mapped to thrust and made landing harder.

Have spent a bit of time reading up on some of the issues and people are blaming short cables that come loose or break. I don't know if this is the issue, its quite likely given symtops - eg loose connection maybe now broken.

So I decided to open up the case for a look. But, I found that the screws were not exactly easy to remove. They didn't feel right in unscrewing in fact one seemed to already be slightly loose and it was almost like they were captive. Gave them a tap and a bit more unscrewing, another tap etc and got the rest of them out. Except one. The one that was slightly loose. Now either this is the longest thread in tehre or something is up, it feels like it comes loose but not free and when I try to open the case it seems like it is still threaded. I obviously don't want to force it. Have heard Saitek at least (no idea about logitech) are not great at customer service and allowing for parts replacement.
I've tried prizing it out with a smaller screwdriver but cant get near it.
Not sure what to do here, its very weird and not a great sign of quality build. It just seems to spin and not come out. I'll keep trying I gues, maybe add upwards pressure, that sometimes works.



I also noticed an issue switching group yesterday, when the throttle was advanced. Now I put this to a software issue rather than hardware as it seemed to be advanced vs blue bar position in game, not the throttle position. Anyone else had this? I use pinky spin (#30 & 31) for fire group, since its old switch (#12 & 13) became cockpit mode and FSS when this was added in game.
I have to say that although the pinky spin feels good, it doesn't quite register all the time, but this could be a sign of a developing hardware problem. Actually now I mention it the bottom spin axis also doesn't always feel right (mapped to sensor range), but I always thought the sensor range was a bit sticky (used to be mapped to pinky spin before above changes). Any one else noticed this?

 

[gmcraib]

yeah the upwards pressure worked. Have opened up for a quick look and see what other people are saying about short wires and tension at throttles full forward.

Will take a quick look just now to see if working ok and ahave a proper look in the morning. might have to get the soldering iron out and replace some cables.
I think some cat 5, might be a good replacement and the sheath should offer a little bit of protection from the nearby gear (I'm not overly concerned about damage from the gear though, its not getting trapped and doesn't appear to have caused any damage - could be wrong of course - my concern is more around tension stress the core is under and possibly pins/connections)

ps I am an Electrical Engineer btw. Although I understand about cables in general that doesn't make me an electronics expert of course
(despite having a degree partially in electronics - some 20+ years ago....)

 

[gmcraib]

Unbelievably, its working (in Windows).
Now do I atempt to fix it (and risk making it worse), or leave it (and end up with an issue later). Ah the enternal question!

Might hold off until others reply, at this point I'm essentially talking to myself lol.
Will have to hope its just a bit of pull on the connector.

 

[Hugh Jardon]

I'm aware it seems there is a lot of QA issues with these HOTAS, but I've had mine about 10 years and not had any major issues. Some minor issues on getting the mouse stick and nearby slider to work but I just assumed they needed software, which I dont like to use.
Has worked absolutely fine on Elite, FSX, old school flight sims and anything else I can throw at it. Admittedly not seen heavy use as I also had a yoke set up for FSX and that got a lot of use (it did break though <sigh>) but the X-55 was the only thing I used to play elite as it allows you to have a lot of controls at your fingertips.

Anyways today I noticed that the left button (#27) on the throttle bottom hat stopped working in game. Not a huge issue as I just used the right hand button to cycle through targets/UI panels. It did start working again later though, strangely enough.
Then the same thing happened with the top hat, again left direction (#24). this was an issue as this is mapped to thrust and made landing harder.

Have spent a bit of time reading up on some of the issues and people are blaming short cables that come loose or break. I don't know if this is the issue, its quite likely given symtops - eg loose connection maybe now broken.

So I decided to open up the case for a look. But, I found that the screws were not exactly easy to remove. They didn't feel right in unscrewing in fact one seemed to already be slightly loose and it was almost like they were captive. Gave them a tap and a bit more unscrewing, another tap etc and got the rest of them out. Except one. The one that was slightly loose. Now either this is the longest thread in tehre or something is up, it feels like it comes loose but not free and when I try to open the case it seems like it is still threaded. I obviously don't want to force it. Have heard Saitek at least (no idea about logitech) are not great at customer service and allowing for parts replacement.
I've tried prizing it out with a smaller screwdriver but cant get near it.
Not sure what to do here, its very weird and not a great sign of quality build. It just seems to spin and not come out. I'll keep trying I gues, maybe add upwards pressure, that sometimes works.



I also noticed an issue switching group yesterday, when the throttle was advanced. Now I put this to a software issue rather than hardware as it seemed to be advanced vs blue bar position in game, not the throttle position. Anyone else had this? I use pinky spin (#30 & 31) for fire group, since its old switch (#12 & 13) became cockpit mode and FSS when this was added in game.
I have to say that although the pinky spin feels good, it doesn't quite register all the time, but this could be a sign of a developing hardware problem. Actually now I mention it the bottom spin axis also doesn't always feel right (mapped to sensor range), but I always thought the sensor range was a bit sticky (used to be mapped to pinky spin before above changes). Any one else noticed this?

When button operation starts to depend on throttle position, it's because the wires are broken inside their insulation. The constant bending backwards and forwards as you operate the throttle causes metal fatigue in the copper wires, so they eventually break. That's happened on just about every HOTAS I've had, including two X52s and my Virpil throttle. There's no way to stop it. The only solution is to cut bits out of the wires and solder in new bits or replace the harness. On the X52s, that worked for a bit until the next wire broke. At least on the Virpils, you can get a new harness that lasts another 4000hrs or so.

The problem manifests itself as buttons and controls on the throttle failing to operate one by one, and sometimes only working when you push the throttle forward. When the latter happens, it's the beginning of the end. The only way to be sure is to test each wire with a meter.

If you're lucky enough to have a harness with a standard connector on each end, like the Virpil, you can find replacements as standard parts on Ebay and Amazon, like these, though Virpil does supply spare parts, which are better quality than the Ebay ones, and they give a good instruction on how to fit them:

5 Sets Micro JST SH 1.0mm 2-10 Pin Female Connector with Wire and Male Connector | eBay UK

10 Sets 2/3/4 Pins Mini Micro JST XH2.54mm 24AWG Connector Plug Wire 150mm KF. 10 sets Micro JST XH 2.54mm 4-Pin Housing Male Female Connector Plug 15cm Wires. 5 Sets JST XH2.54mm 5-10 Pin Singleheaded Wire Cable Connector Set Male Female.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Clicker]

Unbelievably, its working (in Windows).
Now do I atempt to fix it (and risk making it worse), or leave it (and end up with an issue later). Ah the enternal question!

Might hold off until others reply, at this point I'm essentially talking to myself lol.
Will have to hope its just a bit of pull on the connector.

I've had 2x of these and they both had problems you describe.
Broken wires in the loom.

Like yours, my first one had exactly the same intermittent symptoms.
I wound some electrical tape around the loom where I believed the break was which stiffened the loom at that point and reduced flex. This worked for me and I didn't have any more issues for about 6 months.
After it started playing up again (but with a different button), I bought the 2nd X-55.

That only lasted about 6 months before starting to act up, so I gave up and bought a Thrustmaster WARTHOG.

I've had zero issues with the WARTHOG, but they are bloody expensive.

Clicker

 

[Stealthie]

When I was a kid I used to be pretty hard on joysticks, yanking on them to the point where I'd either break switches/buttons or cause things to crack/break mechanically.
I still recall the monthly pilgrimage to Argos, to buy a new pair of joysticks (a bargain at £5.99) for my Atari VCS.
Thing is, as I've got older, and less impulsive, I've learned to be gentle on joysticks so it's disappointing to find that, even if you treat them with care, they do have a finite lifespan.
Cables will fatigue, the graphite tracks wear away on pot's and buttons run out of "clicks".

Thus far I haven't had to carry out any remedial work on my X56 but, if I was attempting to repair the wires, I'd probably take the opportunity to "future-proof" it by fitting some kind of little "patch lead" to replace the vulnerable wiring.

First thing is to figure out where the fault is.
At a guess, I'd say it's equally likely the switch/button has simply worn out OR that there's a broken wire in the wiring harness.

If you're lucky, it might just be that sweat/dust has got into the switch and giving it a quick squirt with some electrical contact cleaner will sort it out.
OTOH, these switches DO have a finite life and it's common that the little "clicky" metal pads inside the switches crack and the little plastic nubs just crumble.
Replacement switches are available, in a variety of sizes/shapes and it should be fairly simple to swap them out for somebody who's competent at soldering.

It is common for the wiring harness in the X55/X56 to fail too.
First thing, there, to bear in mind is that the various switches are all in a "matrix", with diodes in the circuit, so continuity-testing the wiring can be a bit tricky.
If you've tested the switches/buttons and they all work, you can assume the fault IS with the wiring, so it's probably best to desolder it from the PCB (take lots of photo's) before you test it further.

As I said, if it was me I think I'd take the opportunity to build a little "patch lead" rather than just attempting to repair the original wiring.
There's a heap of space inside the case so there's plenty of room to get a little strip of breadboard, solder the original wires to one side of it and then secure it inside the case, using foam-tape, then run new wiring from the other side of the breadboard to the throttle controls.
Also, if you're replacing the wire that runs into the throttle, try to make the wires as long & floppy as possible.
You want to avoid sharp turns, which force the wire to bend every time you move the throttle, and try to create gentle curves of wire, so the movement is spread over a longer length of wire.

In my experience, Saitek/Logitech use terrible quality wire in their joysticks.
In a way, that's a good thing because you might be thinking "If it's happened once it'll happen again!" but if you use decent quality wire (perhaps chop up an old VGA cable or something) to make the repair it'll probably be 20x better than the OEM wiring and it'll last for a decade or more.

 

[gmcraib]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Yeah I think writing may well be on the wall, not to replace but to bite the bullet and rip apart to prevent/improve.

 

[gmcraib]

If you're lucky enough to have a harness with a standard connector on each end, like the Virpil, you can find replacements as standard parts on Ebay and Amazon, like these, though Virpil does supply spare parts, which are better quality than the Ebay ones, and they give a good instruction on how to fit them:

Yeah I think it is standard connectors as it goes into the throttle quadrant. Hopefully that is an easy sort. i might even have some.
The other end goes into a wiring loom and then soldered to pcb I think. But I've not traced it fully.
Pulling back a tie-wrap actually helped a little to give a bit more flex on the cores. Cannot believe how tight it was on a moving part!

 

[gmcraib]

I've had 2x of these and they both had problems you describe.
Broken wires in the loom.

Like yours, my first one had exactly the same intermittent symptoms.
I wound some electrical tape around the loom where I believed the break was which stiffened the loom at that point and reduced flex. This worked for me and I didn't have any more issues for about 6 months.
After it started playing up again (but with a different button), I bought the 2nd X-55.

That only lasted about 6 months before starting to act up, so I gave up and bought a Thrustmaster WARTHOG.

I've had zero issues with the WARTHOG, but they are bloody expensive.

Clicker

Yeah it does not look good. I'm not keen on buying another one, for sake of principal and worried it tmight happen again quickly like with yours.

Had a look around the other day, nothing really jumping out at me tbh though. I've seen the Warthog and it does look good (albeit pricey), also Thrustmaster make excellent kit.
But I don't like that it has no yaw control and I can't be done with pedals, at least not for a space sim.
The other thing that is great about the X-55 etc is the button layout, absolutely perfect for Elite and anything else (maybe bar the warthog) feels like a compromise in respect of buttons.

I'm not even that fussed about it looking too fancy or have metal enclosure and 'military spec' etc. Just want a decent HOTAS, that has a good button layout and works.

 

[gmcraib]

When I was a kid I used to be pretty hard on joysticks, yanking on them to the point where I'd either break switches/buttons or cause things to crack/break mechanically.
I still recall the monthly pilgrimage to Argos, to buy a new pair of joysticks (a bargain at £5.99) for my Atari VCS.
Thing is, as I've got older, and less impulsive, I've learned to be gentle on joysticks so it's disappointing to find that, even if you treat them with care, they do have a finite lifespan.
Cables will fatigue, the graphite tracks wear away on pot's and buttons run out of "clicks".

Thus far I haven't had to carry out any remedial work on my X56 but, if I was attempting to repair the wires, I'd probably take the opportunity to "future-proof" it by fitting some kind of little "patch lead" to replace the vulnerable wiring.

First thing is to figure out where the fault is.
At a guess, I'd say it's equally likely the switch/button has simply worn out OR that there's a broken wire in the wiring harness.

If you're lucky, it might just be that sweat/dust has got into the switch and giving it a quick squirt with some electrical contact cleaner will sort it out.
OTOH, these switches DO have a finite life and it's common that the little "clicky" metal pads inside the switches crack and the little plastic nubs just crumble.
Replacement switches are available, in a variety of sizes/shapes and it should be fairly simple to swap them out for somebody who's competent at soldering.

It is common for the wiring harness in the X55/X56 to fail too.
First thing, there, to bear in mind is that the various switches are all in a "matrix", with diodes in the circuit, so continuity-testing the wiring can be a bit tricky.
If you've tested the switches/buttons and they all work, you can assume the fault IS with the wiring, so it's probably best to desolder it from the PCB (take lots of photo's) before you test it further.

As I said, if it was me I think I'd take the opportunity to build a little "patch lead" rather than just attempting to repair the original wiring.
There's a heap of space inside the case so there's plenty of room to get a little strip of breadboard, solder the original wires to one side of it and then secure it inside the case, using foam-tape, then run new wiring from the other side of the breadboard to the throttle controls.
Also, if you're replacing the wire that runs into the throttle, try to make the wires as long & floppy as possible.
You want to avoid sharp turns, which force the wire to bend every time you move the throttle, and try to create gentle curves of wire, so the movement is spread over a longer length of wire.

In my experience, Saitek/Logitech use terrible quality wire in their joysticks.
In a way, that's a good thing because you might be thinking "If it's happened once it'll happen again!" but if you use decent quality wire (perhaps chop up an old VGA cable or something) to make the repair it'll probably be 20x better than the OEM wiring and it'll last for a decade or more.

Yeah I wouldn't bother testing for continuity, its possible you might get continuity and then it breaks later.
I wasn't sure what you meant at first with 'patch lead' but yeah I get you. I would call it a splice, but maybe not a bad idea. Only issue with that (and changing the leads in general) is that you introduce different impedance's into the circuit. Now I don't know if thats an issue but certainly would be a reason for waiting until it breaks decisively and no other option. There is also a risk of introducing an additional fault.

I'd probably prefer to reaplace ideally. But can't decide until I know whats involved and will need to properly dismantle it to get a good look. Difficult to do when its getting good use!

But yeah I'm not ham fisted on them or anything, probably was also more rought when I was younger but things were built better back then. Recently fired up SNES with old games from 30 years ago. No real problems, some dirty contacts maybe but that was it. Opened up the controllers and they were easy to sort. Had also been looking into replacing the EPROM battery on one or two so I don't lose the data, thats a bit more involved as you need to attach a temporary battery whilst you remove the old one. Anyways I digress.

I've seen a lot of people having issues with them, not good at all. Mine have been solid for a long time though.

 

[Archvillain]

I have a different brand but I like to buy a cheap eBay AS-IS FOR PARTS / REPAIR identical model as a source of spare parts for if/when it's a specialized button that wears out rather than a wire. It also gives you one to take apart without fear to learn how.

But before going down that path of further "investing" in a specific HOTAS, maybe this is the universe giving you an excuse to get the HOTAS you always wanted (if that's not the one you have)

 

[Hugh Jardon]

Yeah I wouldn't bother testing for continuity, its possible you might get continuity and then it breaks later.
I wasn't sure what you meant at first with 'patch lead' but yeah I get you. I would call it a splice, but maybe not a bad idea. Only issue with that (and changing the leads in general) is that you introduce different impedance's into the circuit. Now I don't know if thats an issue but certainly would be a reason for waiting until it breaks decisively and no other option. There is also a risk of introducing an additional fault.

I'd probably prefer to reaplace ideally. But can't decide until I know whats involved and will need to properly dismantle it to get a good look. Difficult to do when its getting good use!

But yeah I'm not ham fisted on them or anything, probably was also more rought when I was younger but things were built better back then. Recently fired up SNES with old games from 30 years ago. No real problems, some dirty contacts maybe but that was it. Opened up the controllers and they were easy to sort. Had also been looking into replacing the EPROM battery on one or two so I don't lose the data, thats a bit more involved as you need to attach a temporary battery whilst you remove the old one. Anyways I digress.

I've seen a lot of people having issues with them, not good at all. Mine have been solid for a long time though.

I found all the broken wires in my X52 throttles and my Virpil by testing continuity. You can also use a bit of logic by checking the wires going to the switches that don't work, and if a whole bank of switches have the same issue, it's the 5v or ground wire that's broken. Obviously, if your switches are intermittent or depend on throttle position, you need to wiggle the wires when you check them.

The only issue I had on the X52s was that I found a couple of wires that were broken inside the insulation, so I repaired them. After a relatively short time, other switches stopped working, so I repaired more wires, then more again until I gave up and upgraded to Virpils that have the same problem, but the repair harness fixes it for a very long time. Bear in mind that these sticks have done around 22,000 hrs between them. When you're a high user, like me, you'll see problems whichever sticks you have.

The worst problem on all these type of sticks is the yaw spring, which only lasts around 3,000 hrs. I found that if you adapt one from thinner wire, they last a lot longer. You can't get the spring from Saitk/Logitech or anyone, but Virpil supply the springs for their sticks as a spare part relatively cheaply, and their spring is identical to the X52 one, so if your X52 one goes, you might be able to get one (a few) from Virpil (MT50- CM2 stick). I'm guessing that all X** sticks have the same yaw spring, and probably other sticks too.

 

[gmcraib]

Guys we may have a good option here:

WINWING

WINWING is a professional Chinese brand specializing in the manufacturing of hardcore aviation gaming peripherals, dedicated to providing high-quality hardware for flight simulation enthusiasts. Their product offerings include the ...

uk.winwingsim.com

Just happened to see a picture of the throttle base elsewhere and saw it is cabled from the base up to the throttle externally!
This should resolve or at least improve issues with limited play in the wire lengths.
Looks like it may be detachable/replaceable too.
They seem to have practical/pragmatic customer support....

 

[Stealthie]

Guys we may have a good option here:

WINWING

WINWING is a professional Chinese brand specializing in the manufacturing of hardcore aviation gaming peripherals, dedicated to providing high-quality hardware for flight simulation enthusiasts. Their product offerings include the ...

uk.winwingsim.com

Just happened to see a picture of the throttle base elsewhere and saw it is cabled from the base up to the throttle externally!
This should resolve or at least improve issues with limited play in the wire lengths.
Looks like it may be detachable/replaceable too.
They seem to have practical/pragmatic customer support....

If you've got £300-odd to spend on a throttle, there are several reliable options.

I understand that WinWing seems to have a pretty good reputation but, honestly, if I was going to spend that sort of money on a HOTAS I think I'd stick to Virpil or VKB.

 

[Archvillain]

...WinWing seems to have a pretty good reputation but, honestly, if I was going to spend that sort of money on a HOTAS I think I'd stick to Virpil or VKB.

It just struck me how much this has changed since Elite was released - and how we have Elite to thank for it. Before Elite, HOTAS was such niche hardware that there were almost no options, and those that existed did not offer much economy of scale.

Then Elite came out, revived the dead space-sim genre (with several other games soon following), brought demand for HOTAS more into mainstream, and a few years later all sorts of new options appeared

It's a golden age