Saitek X65F advice

Hello gents,

Just bought a slightly used one from eBay. Looks extremely well-built and users unanimously praise the better accuracy of the Force-sensing system over regular sticks. I've also read that it's a bit finnicky to program and there's not a lot of Information on of the Web about whether or not newer drivers/Software have improved the situation. I'd thus love to hear from ED users about their experience. Specifically,

Do you need to calibrate this Hotas using its own Software or can you do it straight from the game options ?

Any particular issues I need to pay attention to ? I've already read that the throttle can be stiff and that the way to address that is to move it for a couple of minutes. Comments ?

Frankly, there's not a lot of Info about this one and I'd appreciate any help and advice fellow Cmdrs could provide. Thanks !
 
The throttle should have a tension adjuster like the X52 and X55, so you just need to twiddle the nub to get the right smoothness.

If the 65f's software is anything like the X55's then programming is a combination of software and ED. ED seems to ignore the deadzones, so you have to setup sensitivity in-game, but any programmed keypresses seem to work.
 
You will manage to loosen up the throtte by working it back and forth, but only to a limited extent. If you aren't going to mount it somehow, it will likely still be too stiff and will remain that way even at its lowest tension setting (also be careful, the adjustment screw strips easily and if I recall uses an effectively left-handed thread--anticlockwise increases tension, clockwise decreases it). They used the wrong grease to lube the throttle action, and I don't think this was ever rectified in later production runs.

This is not difficult to fix if you aren't afraid of cracking open the case. Though it isn't difficult, you do need to mind some wires running from the baseplate to the throttle handle. Just open it slowly, and remember some of the screws are hidden under the rubber feet.

Once you have it open, you want to apply some teflon-based dry lube (you can buy a small bottle at bicycle shops for about $5 that will last you forever: http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/chain-lubricants/dry-lube --or whatever the Greek equivalent is). Other lubricants may work too, but make sure they are safe to use on plastics. Most of the lubricants you might have around your house probably are not safe for plastics (no WD-40 under any circumstances ;) ). Mineral oil is probably okay, but it might not last long.

Anyways, the dry teflon lube I mentioned is ideal, so use that if you can. Don't worry about removing the old lube, just apply a liberal amount of the new lubricant to the two curved tracks where the throttle arms meet the base--you'll figure it out when you see it. It's not conductive, so realistically, the worst case scenario is you make a mess. Then close it up and work it back and forth a bunch of times to spread it out. Once I did this, the throttle action was the best I've ever experienced.

I bet if you search Youtube, there will be a video explaining the process. With nothing but a general idea that I wanted to re-lube the throttle and no instructions, all told it took me about 10 minutes to do. I failed to take pictures, unfortunately (which is always a good idea when you're disassembling something).

***

Now, on to the stick. Setting up a force sensing stick is probably different that what you may be used to. Don't be afraid to set what seem to be inordinately large dead zones and by the small amounts of low amplitude noise in the output. That's normal, and deadzones in a force sensing stick are not at all the same as deadzones in a travel sensitive stick. You also want to play around with the curves such that increasing forces ramp up the response quickly, but this is something you'll just have to play with to find something you like.

An important thing to do while you're setting up your deadzones and curves is to work the buttons and HATS on the stick while observing the results. You don't want manipulating any of those to 'move' the stick.

Also, and above all else, realize (if you haven't received it yet), that you probably will not like it at first. It will be foreign and weird and seem too clumsy and imprecise and tiring to use. It takes practice and patience to get acclimatized to it. Once you do though, you will find it is nearly unbeatable for both precision and accuracy in your maneuvers.

You do want to mount it in some way though (new it comes with some adhesive backed velcro strips, so if yours doesn't have those, you might want to find some form of replacement or jury-rig something up to hold it down.

Another plus is being able to change the force settings on the fly via the button box attachment. That can be very useful (ie, low sensitivity for docking, high for fighting, or for different ships, or whatever, and etc.).

***

As for me personally, once I got the tension problem with the throttle sorted out, it was by some margin the best throttle I'd ever used, with silky smooth action. Also, the little button box I mentioned earlier that can be screwed to the throttle is handy as well. I put 'jettison cargo' under the guarded button, and then landing gear, heat sinks, lights and hardpoint deploy on the four other buttons there. I'm probably going to swap lights with jumprive though because I hardly ever use the lights.

Also, all of the different style HAT switches on the face of the throttle and on the stick itself can be removed and swapped around using an alan key. You will need to use the programming software in order to get all of them to work (particularly those on the lefthand throttle lever--something about DirectX and a 32-button limit). I started with a profile I downloaded from this board, though I forget what it's called or where I got it ("kid..." someting, thanks Kid!). if you search you will find it.

***

Okay, now full disclosure: I actually opted to use my Logitech Extreme 3D instead of the X-65F stick, but still use the X-65F throttle (it is the base unit for the whole setup, so that works fine). This is because I have small hands and can't comfortably reach the HAT switches on the stick, which I use for strafing and also because I bought the X-65 for Falcon BMS because the Viper uses a force sensitive stick in real life, and I was having too much trouble breaking the habits I'd established there. Flying a space ship is a lot different from flying an F-16.

Good luck. If you got a good deal on it, it's hard to beat. Remember to persevere through the learning curve, and feel free to PM me if you have an specific questions.

edit:

Oh, and unfortunately, the Saitek software just sucks and there isn't any getting around that. It's just a pain to set up is all, so once that's out of the way, you won't have to worry about it again.

edit2:

I couldn't find any videos or instructions about changing the lube on the throttle. If you feel you need to do this, send me a PM. I didn't quite get the left-side enough and I've been planning on cracking it open again just as soon as I get the chance to buy another bottle of lube. I can make a video or at least take some pictures.

Internally, it is very similar to the X-55, so if you search for a video about changing or removing the throttle detents (which you can do in the X-65 too), that should probably cover it.

edit: And here is the link to the profile I used to start with:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showpost.php?p=543620&postcount=5

Huge thanks and rep to Kizza42 for creating it.
 
Last edited:
You will manage to loosen up the throtte by working it back and forth, but only to a limited extent. If you aren't going to mount it somehow, it will likely still be too stiff and will remain that way even at its lowest tension setting (also be careful, the adjustment screw strips easily and if I recall uses an effectively left-handed thread--anticlockwise increases tension, clockwise decreases it). They used the wrong grease to lube the throttle action, and I don't think this was ever rectified in later production runs.

This is not difficult to fix if you aren't afraid of cracking open the case. Though it isn't difficult, you do need to mind some wires running from the baseplate to the throttle handle. Just open it slowly, and remember some of the screws are hidden under the rubber feet.

Once you have it open, you want to apply some teflon-based dry lube (you can buy a small bottle at bicycle shops for about $5 that will last you forever: http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/chain-lubricants/dry-lube --or whatever the Greek equivalent is). Other lubricants may work too, but make sure they are safe to use on plastics. Most of the lubricants you might have around your house probably are not safe for plastics (no WD-40 under any circumstances ;) ). Mineral oil is probably okay, but it might not last long.

Anyways, the dry teflon lube I mentioned is ideal, so use that if you can. Don't worry about removing the old lube, just apply a liberal amount of the new lubricant to the two curved tracks where the throttle arms meet the base--you'll figure it out when you see it. It's not conductive, so realistically, the worst case scenario is you make a mess. Then close it up and work it back and forth a bunch of times to spread it out. Once I did this, the throttle action was the best I've ever experienced.

I bet if you search Youtube, there will be a video explaining the process. With nothing but a general idea that I wanted to re-lube the throttle and no instructions, all told it took me about 10 minutes to do. I failed to take pictures, unfortunately (which is always a good idea when you're disassembling something).

***

Now, on to the stick. Setting up a force sensing stick is probably different that what you may be used to. Don't be afraid to set what seem to be inordinately large dead zones and by the small amounts of low amplitude noise in the output. That's normal, and deadzones in a force sensing stick are not at all the same as deadzones in a travel sensitive stick. You also want to play around with the curves such that increasing forces ramp up the response quickly, but this is something you'll just have to play with to find something you like.

An important thing to do while you're setting up your deadzones and curves is to work the buttons and HATS on the stick while observing the results. You don't want manipulating any of those to 'move' the stick.

Also, and above all else, realize (if you haven't received it yet), that you probably will not like it at first. It will be foreign and weird and seem too clumsy and imprecise and tiring to use. It takes practice and patience to get acclimatized to it. Once you do though, you will find it is nearly unbeatable for both precision and accuracy in your maneuvers.

You do want to mount it in some way though (new it comes with some adhesive backed velcro strips, so if yours doesn't have those, you might want to find some form of replacement or jury-rig something up to hold it down.

Another plus is being able to change the force settings on the fly via the button box attachment. That can be very useful (ie, low sensitivity for docking, high for fighting, or for different ships, or whatever, and etc.).

***

As for me personally, once I got the tension problem with the throttle sorted out, it was by some margin the best throttle I'd ever used, with silky smooth action. Also, the little button box I mentioned earlier that can be screwed to the throttle is handy as well. I put 'jettison cargo' under the guarded button, and then landing gear, heat sinks, lights and hardpoint deploy on the four other buttons there. I'm probably going to swap lights with jumprive though because I hardly ever use the lights.

Also, all of the different style HAT switches on the face of the throttle and on the stick itself can be removed and swapped around using an alan key. You will need to use the programming software in order to get all of them to work (particularly those on the lefthand throttle lever--something about DirectX and a 32-button limit). I started with a profile I downloaded from this board, though I forget what it's called or where I got it ("kid..." someting, thanks Kid!). if you search you will find it.

***

Okay, now full disclosure: I actually opted to use my Logitech Extreme 3D instead of the X-65F stick, but still use the X-65F throttle (it is the base unit for the whole setup, so that works fine). This is because I have small hands and can't comfortably reach the HAT switches on the stick, which I use for strafing and also because I bought the X-65 for Falcon BMS because the Viper uses a force sensitive stick in real life, and I was having too much trouble breaking the habits I'd established there. Flying a space ship is a lot different from flying an F-16.

Good luck. If you got a good deal on it, it's hard to beat. Remember to persevere through the learning curve, and feel free to PM me if you have an specific questions.

edit:

Oh, and unfortunately, the Saitek software just sucks and there isn't any getting around that. It's just a pain to set up is all, so once that's out of the way, you won't have to worry about it again.

edit2:

I couldn't find any videos or instructions about changing the lube on the throttle. If you feel you need to do this, send me a PM. I didn't quite get the left-side enough and I've been planning on cracking it open again just as soon as I get the chance to buy another bottle of lube. I can make a video or at least take some pictures.

Internally, it is very similar to the X-55, so if you search for a video about changing or removing the throttle detents (which you can do in the X-65 too), that should probably cover it.

edit: And here is the link to the profile I used to start with:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showpost.php?p=543620&postcount=5

Huge thanks and rep to Kizza42 for creating it.

Wow ! thanks a lot for the extremely comprehensive answer. I haven't received the stick yet; perhaps the previous owner (a French guy who runs a flight sim site) already took care of lubing the throttle but, if not, I'll follow your instructions. Ya, I'm a bit intimidated by force-sensing but those who use them usually have very good things to say about precision and maneoverability. Also, my hands are quite large so it should fit me well enough. Again, thanks and I might just take you up on your PM offer if I get lost.

Frankly, this is only my second Hotas -- my current one is a cheapish Thrustmaster T-Flight -- and I don't think re-training myself will prove super hard. But we'll see :) The T-Flight worked well enough at first but after using it 30-40 hours in ED I'm running up against its limitations.
 
I use my X65F all the time, got used to it playing X3 and haven't looked back it's a very nice stick.. but...

you have to give it time and lots of stick time before it becomes natural, there's something about a stick that doesn't move!

Personally mine is modified like this:

opened up the throttle, removed detents from one side, i.e. right throttle no detents.

throttle moves nicely enough for me like that, don't remember if I moved any grease and so on, but if kept in box for a long time it gets stiff.

I've screwed the throttle and the stick to a piece of pine... and clamped the pine to the desk. this gives me a nice stable platform to fly with.

Programming, I've half used Elite and half the saitek software, cause the joystick has more buttons than elite can handle.

if I had to do it again I'll just use the saitek software, if only because I can name it all just in case I forget.

I do use the saitek software to calibrate the stick.. once in a while it seems to need to be done.

I'm now running the stick on the very light forces, I guess I am just used to it now.

this is my odd setup... it's because the computer is in a cupboard and gets put away when I am not home. i.e. the keyboard thing slides away.

2014-09-06.jpg
 
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