General / Off-Topic Salt-Water Fish Extinction by 2048

[Winterwalker]

Is this the biggest test humankind's collective intelligence will ever face? Will we be able to leave the planet en masse before our biosphere loses it's ability to sustain us?

The causes: species disappearance, oxygen depletion/climate change, pollution. Science says the oceans can be saved, do you think they will be and if you were in charge what would you do next?

What more can individuals do to influence the group, in light of ever more news of ecosystem/biodiversity collapse (both below and above the waterline)?


inspired by article
.. the loss of species isn't gradual, it's happening fast and getting faster.

 

[Surfinjo]

What more can individuals do to influence the group, in light of ever more news of ecosystem/biodiversity collapse (both below and above the waterline)?

This is it, the whole climate change thing in a nutshell. The answer is, nothing. Not a thing.

We have no idea what the truth actually is.

Every day we are told this or that is going to kill us. Red meat anyone?

We have no idea which dire predictions are false. All we know is, almost all of them so far, such as sea levels rising by a metre by 2012 or standing room only on the planet by 1999 are certainly a load of nonsense.

Animals are all going to die out so donate more cash to save a bear too stupid to even breed. There are only 35, 35! snow leopards left,. The poor thing as she desperately struggles to survive...... Yawn.

 

[Winterwalker]

Snow Leopard (Panda Bear, Polar Bear, Great Whales, Honey Bee) I agree, are what I'd call "poster species" .. They look cute, so people will care about their disappearance.

This though is old news (conservation from the 1960's and 1970's) in my view. The greater understanding (I think) is in understanding that the WHOLE ECOSYSTEM (that supports these good looking apex predators) is much more important, and that loss of multiple (ugly, creepy crawly) species makes that ecosystem less resilient. [as in, if you grow only potatos and your potatos fail, no food .. grow potatos AND wheat, and if potatos fail you'll still have wheat etc etc. Loss of species working in the same way]

I take your point about bad predictions in the past. However, having done some work on the current honey bee campaign against pesticides, it's clear that governments take their advice from the (well funded) people who MAKE the chemicals. Conservationists tend to be a rag-tag bunch but, although they may not always have access to big money, this does not necessariy make the overall argument wrong.

"Global Warming/ Climate Change" is for me, a less panic inducing way of saying; Oxygen is a highly reactive element and, were it not for plant life over 2 billion years (which converted CO2 into oxygen, locking the carbon into the ground) we would not have a breathable atmosphere. Currently we are pulling that carbon out of the ground and reacting it with atmospheric oxygen as fast as we can. While there is evidence to say the extra CO2 will affect rainfall patterns in areas of the world where we grown mass food, eventually we'll probably choke (asphyxiate) through loss of oxygen. The point about the oceans is that plankton converts more oxygen than land based plants ever did, and that poisoned seas presents a problem that makes loss of rainforest look like small fry.

One thing that's clear to me is that people do not want to go back (to ploughing the land with donkeys!). 21st Century problem, needs futuristic solutions, or the mainstream won't get involved.

 

[Surfinjo]

Sorry if I gave you the impression I don't take the welfare of the climate and eco system seriously, I do, very much.

The problem is, there is absolutely nothing we, as ordinary people can do about it. We can bang our heads till we hurt about Ivory, but it makes no difference while so much money is being made.

We can fret about bush meat trade until we realise that those being told to stop it have been eating this meat for hundreds of thousands, probably several millions of years. The only reason the creatures they have lived on are becoming rare is because wealthy Europeans, N Americans and Japanese, mainly, are buying up all the hard wood they can get their hands on, from Africa. Sustainable resources is meaningless. Cut down a hard wood jungle which has been home to creatures for billions of years and replace it with a nice, well ordered row of Spruce. That's what they mean by sustainable.

These people are then told to grow crops instead, but when they do the very animals they are told not to hunt, come and steal their crops, steal their babies and will kill them if they try and stop.

Exactly as has been happening in India. A balanced system where villages would hunt those wild creatures that came too near. Lasted thousands of years. Then along come Europeans who decided these hunts were jolly good sport and managed to drive these animals to extinction.

Even in western cities, there is an epidemic of rats causing potentially huge damage. Problem could be solved by allowing their predators to kill them, Foxes for example.

In every port, tankers bringing us our cheap goods from the far east, arrive empty but filled with toxic fluid as ballast. That ballast must be emptied before the goods can be loaded, dump it at sea.

Recycle our garbage, bundle it up and send it to the far east. Super! (A recent innovation of finning people who refuse is particularly amusing.)

Disposable plastic bags. Caused floods in Bangladesh leading to huge numbers of deaths. Much of those bags and plastic arrived in recycled garbage from guess where?

I could go on, but every single issue is the same. Over indulgence and a lot of money is the cause and there is nothing ordinary people can do about it. All we get are lies about sea levels rising. Or perhaps it's a deliberate policy of cry wolf.

 

[Surfinjo]

More than 600 artworks critiquing corporate sponsors of the UN summit on climate change have been installed in advertising spaces across Paris.
The Brandalism campaign said it was behind the unauthorised artworks.
It said in a statement the aim was to "highlight the links between advertising, consumerism, fossil fuel dependency and climate change".
The action comes as demonstrations take place around the world to demand action to stop climate change.
Prominent corporate sponsors of the talks have been targeted by the posters, which say that they are "part of the problem".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34958282

 

[Jigster]

What more can individuals do to influence the group, in light of ever more news of ecosystem/biodiversity collapse (both below and above the waterline)?

I've always been a bit wary of Global Warming statistics because getting hold of the raw data is nigh on impossible and the published results are all 'corrected' for one thing or another and/or based on means from a particularly hot or cold period in the past. If the statistics are flaky then the action we take based on them will also be flaky.

The only data I could find unadulterated was from Antartica's Vostock Ice Core. This data shows Earth's climate fluctuates +/- 12C every ~100,000 years. 5,000 years to go up 12C and 95,000 to go down 12C.

http://www.rocketscientistsjournal.com/2006/10/_res/CO2-01.jpg

We're currently near the end of the up cycle so should not we expect higher global temperatures?