Salvaging, Ship Armories, UNREP

As things stand now, there's a huge gap between munitions-based weapons and lasers. Anyone using the former a lot is essentially stuck near civilized space, where docking with a station and spending credits is the only way of replenishing ammo stocks.

What i propose is a system of (yes, i dare use the word) crafting ordnance and ammo-like items in general without the need for a station and therefore allowing munitions users to have a theoretically infinite supply or ammo, much like power and fuel already are.

Firstly, ammo containers taking up cargo space. You could buy those in a base's munitions menu, but not sell. Depending on weapon type, there appears to be a number of clips factory-loaded to the weapon hardpoint. I do believe, that those magazines constitute a considerable portion of the installed weapon's mass and therefore it can be measured how many shells should fit into a 1-ton container. These specific containers, aside from jettison/abandon options would have a "Load" button, as long as at least a ton's worth of ammo has already been used up by an appropriate weapon type. A similar mechanic could apply to fuel - loading hydrogen fuel canisters from the cargo hold. The broader use however is sharing supplies between ships. Indispensable for any group activity.

Secondly, Scrap scooping and recycling. This a feature with great potential, especially in terms of allowing ships to stay away from stations for longer. Even in deep space, there's a chance of encountering wreckage and later-on, presumably hostile aliens. Both are normally useless, but if for example, through EVA or cargo scooping or both - fragments of ship wreckage could find their way onboard our ships. And then, through the use of a variant of a refinery module (Or even the very same) we all know and love - be broken down into useful, even valuable resources, neatly packed up into 1t canisters. Those could be sold of course, adding one more, viable job type to the game, but why stop there?

Third, Manufacturing consumable items from stored cargo. Since ammo items cannot be sold, this would only be a way of maintaining good levels of supply when the option of just visiting a nearby station is unavailable. This would be done by using a refinery-like interface, which would turn the stored resources (recycled and mined) into ammo containers mentioned earlier. Much like the refinery, class and rating would respectively affect the types of ordnance an armory could manufacture and the efficiency at which the input resources would be used. For example, an A1 armory could turn scrap to multicannon shells. Lots of them, but still only those basic shells. An E3 armory on the other hand could make things as "advanced" as rockets aside from multicannon shells, but wasting a lot more resources than the A1 in the process.

A few balancing notes though: Underway replenishment and living off the land should be strategic advantages, not tactical ones. It should only be a valid option inbetween fights. Thus, things like cell banks and repair kits shouldn't be possible to store, while all manufacture should take time he order of minutes to complete.
 
one point you are missing, away from settled space there is nobody to fight, therefore you don't expend any ammo and don't need a refill.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Weaponry that has a defined ammunition limit has it for a reason - these weapons usually generate less heat and can therefore be used for longer (until, of course, the ammunition runs out).

Introducing crafting by the back door does not seem to be a good way to deal with this - rather the player should select a weapons loadout that requires them to return to base less often to resupply.
 
How about just selling magazines to put in those smaller size slots. Then ships can carry more ammunition at the expense of other abilities.
 
I'm vehemently opposed to ammo crafting, but totally on board with storing more ammo in the cargo slots. I run my ASP with one 64 ton cargo slot and would love to pile in what would equate to like 2 or 3 station reloads. Maybe 20 tons or 30 tons per weapon per complete reload?
 
I'm vehemently opposed to ammo crafting, but totally on board with storing more ammo in the cargo slots. I run my ASP with one 64 ton cargo slot and would love to pile in what would equate to like 2 or 3 station reloads. Maybe 20 tons or 30 tons per weapon per complete reload?

Me and a fellow player were discussing this sort of thing the other day whilst pirate hunting, and on one of the frequent trips back to base to resupply thought it would be handy. 20-30 tons seems rather excessive for a single reload if we're to keep it somewhat realistic, though it would depend on what weapon we're talking about.

If we're to take a modern day comparison, say the GAU-8 Avenger 30mm cannon as a comparison to a small multicannon, the ammo for that weighs about .7kg per round (best estimate I can find) and a magazine of multicannon ammunition contains 2100 rounds so approx 1.5t per magazine. Larger calibre (and class) cannons would go upwards from there.

Loading up your cargo hold full of ammo would be too easy, it should be a separate module to facilitate auto-reloading and the quality and class of that should determine it's maximum capacity and reload speed.
 
Salvage would be a worthwhile addition imo. It would give pirates and bounty hunter types an avenue to make additional income, but possibly could be used to make repairs to your ship on the go. Your suggestion of a scanner/salvage module is what I was thinking too, but I was thinking you could toggle it's setting between (or have 3 separate modules), Salvage: Scrap (for resale), Salvage: Repairs (to offer decent away from port repairs), and Salvage: Ammo.

If the rates were decent enough (based on module), it might entice players to play a little more daringly (bigger repair rate and scrap value, based on the size of the ship destroyed), and might make for interesting build choices that would deviate from stacking Shield Banks. In time Shield Banks might be seen as "Training Wheels" that players ween themselves off a little as they try to make more money from Bounty Hunting/Pirateering.
 
Me and a fellow player were discussing this sort of thing the other day whilst pirate hunting, and on one of the frequent trips back to base to resupply thought it would be handy. 20-30 tons seems rather excessive for a single reload if we're to keep it somewhat realistic, though it would depend on what weapon we're talking about.

If we're to take a modern day comparison, say the GAU-8 Avenger 30mm cannon as a comparison to a small multicannon, the ammo for that weighs about .7kg per round (best estimate I can find) and a magazine of multicannon ammunition contains 2100 rounds so approx 1.5t per magazine. Larger calibre (and class) cannons would go upwards from there.

Loading up your cargo hold full of ammo would be too easy, it should be a separate module to facilitate auto-reloading and the quality and class of that should determine it's maximum capacity and reload speed.

For every advantage gained, there must be an equal or significant disadvantage gained in an effort to remain balanced.

Being self sufficient is a very significant advantage. In addition, the kinetic weapons already carry a very big advantage of less heat (and therefore more damage per second). To combine the advantages of more damage per second with not having to go back to a station to re-arm, the disadvantage would have to be VERY significant.

This is why I'd suggested 20-30 tons of cargo space for 1 reload.
 
Me and a fellow player were discussing this sort of thing the other day whilst pirate hunting, and on one of the frequent trips back to base to resupply thought it would be handy. 20-30 tons seems rather excessive for a single reload if we're to keep it somewhat realistic, though it would depend on what weapon we're talking about.

If we're to take a modern day comparison, say the GAU-8 Avenger 30mm cannon as a comparison to a small multicannon, the ammo for that weighs about .7kg per round (best estimate I can find) and a magazine of multicannon ammunition contains 2100 rounds so approx 1.5t per magazine. Larger calibre (and class) cannons would go upwards from there.

Loading up your cargo hold full of ammo would be too easy, it should be a separate module to facilitate auto-reloading and the quality and class of that should determine it's maximum capacity and reload speed.

Baaaaaad comparison by a long shot.
Give up the SMALLER slots for magazines. Smaller shots. I'd be surprised if someone said the multicannons were .50 never mind 30mm for damage.
 
The trade off between ammo costs and the fact you can't have infinite ammo were intentionally balanced with the fact that projectile weapons do more hull damage than their equivalent energy weapons and the fact that energy weapons use a great deal more power.

It's not an oversight it's an intentional decision.
 
And makes combat a more tactical affair. Ultimately the energy weapon user is going to be able to fight longer but can they survive long enough against someone with a higher DPS?
 
Baaaaaad comparison by a long shot.
Give up the SMALLER slots for magazines. Smaller shots. I'd be surprised if someone said the multicannons were .50 never mind 30mm for damage.

I was kinda using it as an example for the weight of ammunition, saying that 30t for a single reload was rather excessive even for a large calibre gatling cannon. I'm sure someone would bring up the same sort of argument if it were really implemented. And the medium ones look freakin' huge calibre in the game.

I can see the other side of the argument and the reasoning for having the large weight though.
 
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