Sandboxes and imagination, with visual aids. *long*

Aside from the typical forum anger of video games that you expect on the internet, I've been seeing a few posts saying things like: "they need to put sand in the sandbox", or that "this isn't a sandbox, just an empty box", "mile wide, inch deep". I've also seen people say things like "I shouldn't have to use my imagination to make the game good!." The former bothers me far less than the latter and I'll explain why, but I think both the former and latter are linked to some degree.
-
I got to thinking about what a sandbox is (in gaming as well as literally), how imagination plays into that, and what my role as a gamer is; as well as the way we process art, and video games as art.
-
Now, I'll admit there are deficiencies with ED, but that isn't the point of this post, I'd like to discuss how imagination plays a role in a sandbox, regardless of how "deep" the sand is. You see, to someone with no imagination this is a sandbox:
sanbox.jpg it is literally a box full of sand, and they are absolutely right. You might add any number of buckets, shovels, trucks or other toys but to them, it will always be a rather boring box full of sand. Now to someone with a little imagination and creativity and a few tools it might become this:
sandcastle.jpg, turrets, and stations and buttresses and gates. A war might take place, a princess may be there (or in another castle). It is a malleable, buildable box full of possibilities but in the end, they'll have a hard time seeing past the sand, and it will always still be sand. To someone with unlimited imagination, to a child, it becomes this:
castle.jpg.
-
Who do you think has the most pure enjoyment out of the sandbox? All three start as the same thing, just a box of sand, it is the imagination of the beholder, the player, that makes it great. I'd like to add that the more tools we're given to play in the sand, the easier it is to make that great leap from the second picture to the third, but tools take time to make.
-
The same thing is true of all mediums for entertainment and expression, music, novels, cinema, sculpture, painting, dance, whatever. If you look at the thing for simply what it is; words on a page, a body moving, sounds in some sort of pattern, pigment splattered on a canvas, etc. it becomes dull, tedious and boring, something mundane to be rejected and forgotten. But let that spark your imagination, blow it into a flame and start an inferno and the ink on the page takes us to far places, moves us emotionally, and touches us profoundly. Even though I have no rhythmic ability, I can watch someone dance and be moved by their expression, by their emotion and dedication, even on the most mechanical level, I can appreciate the blood sweat and tears, the hours of pain and discipline they've practiced to be able to perform and the courage it takes to offer up that performance to a viewer who will be their judge, and if they are generous enough to ask for criticism or advice I should be careful and thoughtful in responding.
-
Elite: Dangerous is the performance the developers have offered to us, it is the result of hours and days and years of their lives, dedicated to make something special, to offer something that might spark our imagination, to kindle a flame of childlike interest, to take me to the furthest reaches of the galaxy or to become CMDR Bacalao: Good guy-bounty hunter. They have been good enough to include our feedback in their refinements. To give us some part, no matter how small or variable or fleeting, into their decision making, their creation, is very generous. If it doesn't spark your imagination, that doesn't make it bad, or trash. It doesn't make the developers idiots, incompetent or unaware. Their invitation for feedback is not a license to be rude. Does my disinterest in War and Peace make Tolstoy an idiot, or a bad author? No, perhaps that medium, perhaps his method within that medium doesn't spark my imagination, but that is no reason to disparage him. Your deficiency in imagination is not something the developers can patch.
-
I guess I want to make a few points, first: let it spark your imagination; give in, at least occasionally. Become the pilot, don't min/max your faction rep, don't turn it to a grind with credits/hr, let it light up your imagination, because that is the mechanism that all art uses that makes it great. Second: consider your feedback, be critical and discerning, but don't be hateful or rude, it's destructive and pointless (unless having a thread with lots of replies makes you feel good). If all you can see is the sand in a box, then maybe this medium doesn't speak to you the way Tolstoy doesn't speak to me, only you will appear the fool for being rude. Third: understand the hours and weeks and months it takes to build something in this medium, an author can't just rewrite a chapter overnight, a team of developers can't just add a pet feature in a week. There are competing interests and features and issues, be patient.
-
There isn't only one way to play, you can appreciate dance because it touches you emotionally, or because you appreciate the ruthless discipline of a well trained body, just like you can have fun imagining yourself as a space pirate or by being the most efficient trader in CR/hr around. But lets not be rude and critical because we refuse to let our imagination see anything other than a person twirling pointlessly, because we won't let it take us from the second picture, to the third. Because I'll guarantee, FD can add all the pails and Tonkas and shovels and molds and a whole beach full of sand, but unless you make it into a living breathing castle with your imagination, you're always going to get bored, because it's just a box full of sand.
-
TLDR: You've been privileged with the ability to read, the existence of TLDRs is an insult to literate and illiterate people alike.
-
Unrelated aside: Mods, you do an awesome job, seriously, I love this forum, been around some other forums I used to haunt and my brain almost melted from the chaos, keep it up, I appreciate the bejeebers out of it. (Didn't think this thought deserved it's own thread, though a big part of me thinks it does.)
 
Well put cmdr +1!

All I wish to say is that for me I'm happy for the ED sandbox to take time to fill up. I want to savour the experience and enjoy seeing it evolve over time. As a premium beta backer I feel I've already has my money's worth to date, yet there is so much more to come! I've been taking a break for the last few months as I had achieved everything I wanted to and PP did not float my boat.

I'm now looking forward to the next couple of updates that will be with us quite soon and also Horizons at the end of the year which for me will be like starting the process all over again!
 
Can't say I agree with absolutely everything, but good read.

The images made me think though - I played the original Elite when I was 11 and I wish my imagination still was the same. However thanks to technological advances, availabilty of HOTAS and playing in VR, the game already does look and feel like image #3 - my brain buys it and it's no comparison to sitting in front of a small CRT, watching choppy wireframes and holding a Competition Pro in my lap.

All I have to do is ignoring all the shortcomings reminding me the BGS is closer to image #1, but overall I'd say it has become a lot easier.

I occasionally vent my frustration that FDs focus appears to be directed towards additional features I'll have to ignore, thus making things harder instead of easier for me, but I mostly do it in a polite manner and I understand I'm a niche demographic, the world doesn't revolve around me and FD are a business.
 
Good post! It is always cool to see when someone has the ability to tell with words and pictures something you also think but can't properly express!

I myself have always had a good imagination and even if it has fainted after years (I'm over 30), I still find that I have maintained a to see something that really is not there. I love games, that leave you to "fill empty spots", like a good book. You can imagine places, characters, how they look...

In Elite, I can almost visually see a pirate/pirates interdicting my ship in his/her cockpit, Malcolm Reynolds kind of character maybe... Someone more sinister?

Entering Rhea and watching a station peacefully roll, wonder if Felicia Winters is currently on this system... On that station, perhaps?
Or seeing a floating shipwreck, what kind of battles it saw and how it was defeated? if only it could talk.
Taking mission of transporting gargofull of food to a station where people are starwing, it feels good to know I will have a change to help "them". And for the same reason I never haul slaves!
Well, hundred tons of siggs is not so bad :
 
I'd rep this a thousand times if I could.
-
Sandbox games, whether they be historical, Sci-Fi, fanatsy, contemporary, or whatever are really a genre all their own. It takes a a certain willingness to invest yourself in one and be able to enjoy properly, when a lot of game design has devolved into "Quest out area A, move into area B. Quest out area B, move into area C" with more emphasis on cool looking graphics and spell effects. As I look back, all the best experiences I've had with gaming have been sandbox games or ones that required the use of a bit of imagination, going back to Sid Meier's Pirates (one of the best sandboxes ever) and even beyond. They kinda required it, when the best they could offer sometimes was three point animated sprites, and small window into a limited view of a flat bleak landscape with your party stats at the bottom and leaving you to draw out 22 x 22 grid dungeon maps on grid paper you stole from school. You went to sleep dreaming where you would take your little party of heroes tomorrow, or what towns your little pirate fleet was going to sack. Today, alot of game design doesn't require much of that it seems, the developer has stolen imagination from the gamer through technological advancements much the same as television stole it away from radio. Its good to know that some people understand its not a bad thing to be without glowing yellow question marks to tell you what to do next, though there are enough posts on the forum that read "Elite: Boring" to make be think that some are just lost without them, because I haven't experienced the boredom yet. And I'm not just some unabashed fanboy trying to defend FDEV against every criticism, though some might peg me that way. I welcome criticism. The constructive kind - leave your personal rancour at home. I recognize the game has faults, but I willingly overlook them because I know in the grand scheme of things, we're just getting started here. But fair warning - unless the "Elite: Boring" crowd is willing to invest even a little imagination into the game, they are not going to find it any more interesting in five years then they do now.
 
I think the big thing though is that currently, the sandbox looks like picture 1, no matter what you do.

You start piling that sand to build a castle, and the static game mechanics cause it to fail to clump together and return things to picture 1. You can close your eyes and imagine 3, but in reality, picture 1 is all you have.

It's not so much adding new toys to the sandbox, it's making things able to be changed and actions have an effect so that the sand can be shaped into something new.
 

Thanks, yeah, the most fun I've ever had gaming (and still do) is sitting in a room with dice, essentially talking with friends. 100% imagination, talk about bad story and AI, whatever me or my dumb friends can come up with is all the simple plot and intrigue we had, in the end it was just rolling dice, moving other dice around a grid, but my goodness did we laugh and cry and enjoy it.
I think stripping down a medium can really help spark the imagination (hence why I think books are much better experiences than movies), but some people can't get that, then given something as impressive as ED.... I just don't like it when they go insulting people because they don't enjoy the medium. If it isn't your flavor, it isn't your flavor.

Can't say I agree with absolutely everything, but good read.

The images made me think though - I played the original Elite when I was 11 and I wish my imagination still was the same. However thanks to technological advances, availabilty of HOTAS and playing in VR, the game already does look and feel like image #3 - my brain buys it and it's no comparison to sitting in front of a small CRT, watching choppy wireframes and holding a Competition Pro in my lap.

All I have to do is ignoring all the shortcomings reminding me the BGS is closer to image #1, but overall I'd say it has become a lot easier.

I occasionally vent my frustration that FDs focus appears to be directed towards additional features I'll have to ignore, thus making things harder instead of easier for me, but I mostly do it in a polite manner and I understand I'm a niche demographic, the world doesn't revolve around me and FD are a business.

I think a lot of us wish we could have the imagination of kids. I see my kids play with legos or a truck in the backyard for hours and the stories they come in and tell that they are so excited about, all from a Tonka and a stick in the dirt out back. And yes, the game is graphically amazing, it still astounds me, I just put it on my 50" last night for the first time and I was flabbergasted, can't wait for next spring to see it in the Rift.

Well put cmdr +1!

All I wish to say is that for me I'm happy for the ED sandbox to take time to fill up. I want to savour the experience and enjoy seeing it evolve over time. As a premium beta backer I feel I've already has my money's worth to date, yet there is so much more to come! I've been taking a break for the last few months as I had achieved everything I wanted to and PP did not float my boat.

I'm now looking forward to the next couple of updates that will be with us quite soon and also Horizons at the end of the year which for me will be like starting the process all over again!

Yeah, well, powerplay hasn't been my thing either, but I very much appreciate that so many people get lit up by it. I too look forward to the "tools and sand" that FD throw in the box for us.

- - - Updated - - -

I think the big thing though is that currently, the sandbox looks like picture 1, no matter what you do.

You start piling that sand to build a castle, and the static game mechanics cause it to fail to clump together and return things to picture 1. You can close your eyes and imagine 3, but in reality, picture 1 is all you have.

It's not so much adding new toys to the sandbox, it's making things able to be changed and actions have an effect so that the sand can be shaped into something new.

I suppose I don't expect to change anything. How would I, in 1 ship, change any bit of the fate of a system population of 4 billion? The scale is huge, I don't expect to fill the whole box with my castle, maybe push a few grains around in the corner. If you want to see change from just 1 guys actions you're going to have to go to a very small system, and to me that really gets me in, because not only is the 400Bn system count daunting, but the tiny effect I have in a big system puts me in my place. But I do hope for persistent NPCs that we can hopefully see a long term difference in an individual's story.
 
Loved the whole post! Thank you Bacalao for so eloquently stating what I've been thinking this whole time while internally grumbling about the 'There's nothing to do!' crowd.

Elite: Dangerous, like all things in life, is not for everybody. That's a life lesson I learned that still helps me every day. I try to embrace the things that positively engage me, and respectfully let go of the things that negatively engage me. I'm disappointed by a lot of things that others enjoy, I just don't prowl their communities and snark at them because I don't enjoy the same thing.

To bring it back to Elite: Dangerous, I'm not a fan of some elements of the game, but I don't go out of my way to hound the people who do enjoy those same elements. It's my opinion that if we all were a little more cognizant of the simple fact that we're not all going to love and hate the same things, we'll all have a more peaceful and respectful state of mind...or maybe I'm just a filthy hippie ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

TLDR: You've been privileged with the ability to read, the existence of TLDRs is an insult to literate and illiterate people alike.
:D
 
Well Said Bacalao I agree for the most part. However a lot of what it comes down to is most people who make comments about Elite Dangerous being a sand box without the Sand have no idea what it takes to make a game let alone something with the scale of Elite. They just expect since they threw their money at a game still in development without looking at it's road map for development that they are entitled to all those features right away. Even though a simple forum/ google search could have given them far more realistic expectations. Its not 100% their fault though. COD for example helped horribly skew peoples expectations on how long it takes for a game to come out by having a massive dev team re release the exact same game on the exact same engine as modern warfare 1 only with different maps and armory like 5 times.
 
Thank you for the eloquent post - and for the laughter that exploded out of me when I read the TL;DR

Thanks, yeah, the most fun I've ever had gaming (and still do) is sitting in a room with dice, essentially talking with friends. 100% imagination, talk about bad story and AI, whatever me or my dumb friends can come up with is all the simple plot and intrigue we had, in the end it was just rolling dice, moving other dice around a grid, but my goodness did we laugh and cry and enjoy it. (snip)

We played AD&D for days on end, my friends and I - in our youth.
20 years later, I dug up the "dungeon" - a whole world with history and tales of idiocy and heroism - and was DM for my kids and their friends for over a year of weekly meets.
Those kids are grown some since then and both of my kids DM for their groups of (now adult) friends. (4th Edition)
 
Last edited:
hurr, a literal sandbox, I see what you did there. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, you don't promise a sandbox with a bunch of toys, then only deliver a sprinkle of the sand at the bottom, and only 1/3 of the toys, then tell people it's up to them to use their imaginations. And while you might be able to mentally bait your mast yourself in your cockpit, not everyone wants to do that, and maybe even expects to be able to actually do some of the things they were told they'd be able to. If "use your imagination" is the best argument, then why even open the launcher to play? I'll just close my eyes and imagine it all.

Heck, all ED is then is a baitamastory aid for your imagination. Great.
 
Last edited:
Seriously though, you don't promise a sandbox with a bunch of toys, then only deliver a sprinkle of the sand at the bottom, and only 1/3 of the toys, then tell people it's up to them to use their imaginations.

I don't think the OP wrote the game. Also, I don't think the developers have ever come out with "use your imagination" as a suggested playstyle. So who exactly are you directing your criticism at?
 
hurr, a literal sandbox, I see what you did there. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, you don't promise a sandbox with a bunch of toys, then only deliver a sprinkle of the sand at the bottom, and only 1/3 of the toys, then tell people it's up to them to use their imaginations. And while you might be able to mentally yourself in your cockpit, not everyone wants to do that, and maybe even expects to be able to actually do some of the things they were told they'd be able to. If "use your imagination" is the best argument, then why even open the launcher to play? I'll just close my eyes and imagine it all.

Why open a book, or watch a play, or listen to music? Because they offered it as a medium to inspire imagination. They sparked my imagination, yes, ED has a lot of tools to yet be added, but telling someone they are trash/idiots/junk is no way to get more and to assume that the tool you want is the tool they should be working on is an intensely egotistical view of the world.
-
PP is a great tool a lot of people really enjoy, but taking the majority of the "FD, you idiots what were you thinking this is the dumbest idea evar! Pull your heads out, cut it off and do something we actually want!" posts, you'd think it wasn't in the original plan (it was) or that a lot of people don't like it (a lot do). Just because you aren't getting the tools you want right this instant doesn't mean there isn't anything there or that the creators deserve derision, and it certainly isn't helpful to say "Where is the sand?".
-
You're exemplifying my point perfectly, only to an even greater degree, you don't even see the "sand", it's just an empty box to you. I sincerely hope that one day you can have all the sand and the tools you want or could ever hope for, but it takes an enormous amount of time and work to develop even simple ones. Though I suppose we could still be in the backing phase because they're increasing scope.
 
Last edited:
First off:
TLDR: You've been privileged with the ability to read, the existence of TLDRs is an insult to literate and illiterate people alike.
I'm going to have that framed. :D

I agree pretty much with what you are saying and it brings this to mind.

Power Play, sadly, has not lived up to my expectations. I hope that will change when they tweak it a bit more but, until then, I've unpledged from ALD.
I mean, the story is there, it fires my imagination but the mechanics are getting in the way.

But, with the coming Ships release, we've found a way to work the story part of PP into our play. My group is 100% Empire, but we want to try out the newer Fed ships, so...

While my brother, the Duke, and I were working Crime Sprees and Undermining Fed space, a representative of Arissa Lavigny-Duval approached us and inquired if we would be interested in undertaking a mission for The Senator. After we verified the representative's bonafides we accepted the mission.

Our mission: To infiltrate Federation space, under pseudonyms, and grow in rank in the Federal Navy and, once we obtain the necessary rank and the new ships are available, purchase the new ships and return them to the Empire for detailed examination. Avoiding detection while in route back to the Empire. If captured, the Empire will disavowal any knowledge of our mission and will make no attempts to recover us. To this ends we've have had a hollow tooth installed replacing one of our original teeth. This tooth carries a dose of MindWipe that will leave us with no knowledge of our mission or even of ourselves. If we succeed, we will be honored, in a secret ceremony, and will officially join the ranks of Senator Lavigny-Duval's Secret Imperial Service (Not to be confused with ISS you know).

Mums the word.

BTW; that is a whole lot of sand right there. :) The sand is all there, you just have to play with it.
 
Last edited:

A friend and I had this exact conversation from a game mechanics point of view, we talked for about an hour about "Why can't we be loyal to major factions and get spy missions and sneak in and earn Clippers (we are Feds....:eek:) and then infiltrate Empire space and blast unsuspecting Imperials with their own ships?!" We thought that would be so awesome and were so disappointed that there was no in game function to do that, then we realized, THATS EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO! And so here we are, earning Federation promotions to get the required rank to be trusted with such a sensitive mission. Sure it would be cool to have a little line of text in-game to denote this, but seems a little nitpicky to me now. It is our future aspiration to flip an Empire system to Federation control using Clippers....bwahahahaaha! Beware Imperials, you'll never see what hit you! (edit: just had an idea, may rack up a decent bounty in the neighboring fed systems so that our allies are antagonistic, add some danger in, since they won't know we're the good guys too! I love this game.)

The lore, the scale, the ships, the BGS, all the tools exist for us to do exactly what we want to do, and blessedly, there isn't some NPC forcing me to do it, or hindering me from doing so with some arbitrary and unnecessary system.

Cheers from the other side of the fence!
 
Last edited:
A friend and I had this exact conversation from a game mechanics point of view, we talked for about an hour about "Why can't we be loyal to major factions and get spy missions and sneak in and earn Clippers (we are Feds....:eek:) and then infiltrate Empire space and blast unsuspecting Imperials with their own ships?!" We thought that would be so awesome and were so disappointed that there was no in game function to do that, then we realized, THATS EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO! And so here we are, earning Federation promotions to get the required rank to be trusted with such a sensitive mission. Sure it would be cool to have a little line of text in-game to denote this, but seems a little nitpicky to me now. It is our future aspiration to flip an Empire system to Federation control using Clippers....bwahahahaaha! Beware Imperials, you'll never see what hit you! (edit: just had an idea, may rack up a decent bounty in the neighboring fed systems so that our allies are antagonistic, add some danger in, since they won't know we're the good guys too! I love this game.)

The lore, the scale, the ships, the BGS, all the tools exist for us to do exactly what we want to do, and blessedly, there isn't some NPC forcing me to do it, or hindering me from doing so with some arbitrary and unnecessary system.

Cheers from the other side of the fence!

Hmmm... I foresee a future SIS mission there. :) You wouldn't happen to have a steel jaw with razor sharp teeth would you?

6816799_std.jpg
 
Why open a book, or watch a play, or listen to music? Because they offered it as a medium to inspire imagination. They sparked my imagination, yes, ED has a lot of tools to yet be added, but telling someone they are trash/idiots/junk is no way to get more and to assume that the tool you want is the tool they should be working on is an intensely egotistical view of the world.
-
PP is a great tool a lot of people really enjoy, but taking the majority of the "FD, you idiots what were you thinking this is the dumbest idea evar! Pull your heads out, cut it off and do something we actually want!" posts, you'd think it wasn't in the original plan (it was) or that a lot of people don't like it (a lot do). Just because you aren't getting the tools you want right this instant doesn't mean there isn't anything there or that the creators deserve derision, and it certainly isn't helpful to say "Where is the sand?".
-
You're exemplifying my point perfectly, only to an even greater degree, you don't even see the "sand", it's just an empty box to you. I sincerely hope that one day you can have all the sand and the tools you want or could ever hope for, but it takes an enormous amount of time and work to develop even simple ones. Though I suppose we could still be in the backing phase because they're increasing scope.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I hoped this game would be made since I was a boy. And I am hugely grateful and glad that it happened. I backed the kickstarter the moment I heard about it, like a lot of people did. I haven't demanded anything of the devs, nor insulted them for doing/not doing anything that didn't meet my wants. When the game doesn't satisfy me, I just hit Save and Exit and don't play until I feel like it again. I even agree with your post to some degree.

But a post like yours is still only one of many ways you could look at things. I see just as many posts about how privileged people are for wanting things from the game, and how that's a bad thing. But hold up, people paid money, out of their pockets, for this game to happen. That does entitle them to a degree of expectation, especially of things that were actually promised, and a degree of cynicism when they find out things like the surprise Xbox announcement. For every analogy you can come up with, there's always a counter analogy. I don't buy half-written manuscripts. I don't go to see plays that have two acts, but no dialogue. I don't listen to a symphony that's missing the string and brass sections. You get the idea. I find these piety posts just as annoying as you probably find critical posts, and they seem just as egotistical to me too.
 
Hey, don't get me wrong, I hoped this game would be made since I was a boy. And I am hugely grateful and glad that it happened. I backed the kickstarter the moment I heard about it, like a lot of people did. I haven't demanded anything of the devs, nor insulted them for doing/not doing anything that didn't meet my wants. When the game doesn't satisfy me, I just hit Save and Exit and don't play until I feel like it again. I even agree with your post to some degree.

But a post like yours is still only one of many ways you could look at things. I see just as many posts about how privileged people are for wanting things from the game, and how that's a bad thing. But hold up, people paid money, out of their pockets, for this game to happen. That does entitle them to a degree of expectation, especially of things that were actually promised, and a degree of cynicism when they find out things like the surprise Xbox announcement. For every analogy you can come up with, there's always a counter analogy. I don't buy half-written manuscripts. I don't go to see plays that have two acts, but no dialogue. I don't listen to a symphony that's missing the string and brass sections. You get the idea. I find these piety posts just as annoying as you probably find critical posts, and they seem just as egotistical to me too.

I think I get what you're saying. As stated, this isn't a thread about what Elite promised, rather what a sandbox promises and how it interacts with imagination. Without the imagination you can have everything offered in the DDA and you'll still get bored out of your mind. I think for some people, the things not yet realized from the DDA are what sparked their imaginations, and I can see how that would be frustrating. But from what I have seen, it will get implemented to some degree or another, perhaps not exactly as we envisioned it, but nothing ever is and that's a reality we have to deal with.
-
I think what we have, when compared to anything else on the market (or that game that still isn't on the market yet but will be later...much later), is a fair bid at any sandbox game. The alternative that I see is to still be in that state of the other game yet, but the hype train runs out of gas eventually, and the longer it runs the harder the crash at the end (if anyone expects SC to actually deliver...ugh, how many years of gaming do we need to show it won't and the backlash will be titanic). I think adding in major features that open new revenue streams (CQC) is a good move to ensure they don't get stuck in the "forever going to release/seeking more funding" stage. Add into that the fact that 1.4 will implement, slowly but surely, more from the DDA, and lay groundwork for other aspects. Putting out the product, as any artist does, when you know you need to because otherwise you'll polish it forever, is a better alternative to polishing it forever and never getting to put on the show because you put it off so long searching for perfection and the theatre bills went overdue. ED is a three act play, you might not be moved by the third act, but it's there, and we have the benefit of being able to see it improved, even if the improvement isn't on the line we quibble with most.
-
Again, it isn't so much about wanting more, or expecting more, it's about expecting something to do something it can't (a sandbox doesn't work without imagination, it can't), it's about accepting it for what it is and if you want more, expressing that desire in a constructive way. I think for the most part we all enjoy ED so much that we get frustrated we can't enjoy it more, we just get frustrated there isn't more ED, but that passion needs to be bridled with reason and acceptance at what it actually is.
 
Back
Top Bottom