Scanning an NPC with bounty turns the entire settlement against you?

[Vikestart]

It seems that whenever I'm at a settlement and scan an NPC that has a bounty, it will turn every NPC in the settlement against me (even if the other NPCs don't have bounties?).

Somehow I'm the evil do-er when the other NPC is the one that opens fire.

Edit: Just happened again. I scanned a lot of NPCs in a settlement. None had bounties, then suddenly I scanned one NPC that had a bounty and the entire settlement turned hostile towards me and started aiding the NPC with a bounty. I didn't even fire my weapon at all. Ridiculous....

 

[CptXabaras]

Did you get spotted by that wanted NPC while scanning him?
Were you keeping your weapons and tools holstered just to use the scanning tool while sneaking undetected to perform the scan?

 

[FrogsFriend]

Were his friends angry that some unknown visitor was potentially going to execute him for a traffic violation?

 

[Vikestart]

Did you get spotted by that wanted NPC while scanning him?
Were you keeping your weapons and tools holstered just to use the scanning tool while sneaking undetected to perform the scan?

The wanted NPC saw me scanning them, yes. I never took out any of my guns.

Upon scanning the wanted NPC, he immediately drew his gun and started shooting at me and the base immediately went on full alert. All the other NPCs in the base (most/all of whom where clean NPCs) also came after me. I still hadn't taken out my gun, but I just tried to run away.

It just feels like stupid AI where all of the NPCs automatically team up regardless of status. They will never side with the player, no matter what.

This needs to change:

• First of all, a wanted NPC shouldn't always attack you when you scan them. I mean, wanted ships don't attack you just because you scan them. If you take out your gun afterwards, well, that would be a different story....
• Second, if the wanted NPC opens fire first, then the base should side with the player, not the NPC.

What's worse is that I gain bounties simply from defending my own life. I act in self defense and I keep getting bounties.

 

[Kerissimo]

The wanted NPC saw me scanning them, yes. I never took out any of my guns.

Upon scanning the wanted NPC, he immediately drew his gun and started shooting at me and the base immediately went on full alert. All the other NPCs in the base (most/all of whom where clean NPCs) also came after me. I still hadn't taken out my gun, but I just tried to run away.

It just feels like stupid AI where all of the NPCs automatically team up regardless of status. They will never side with the player, no matter what.

This needs to change:

• First of all, a wanted NPC shouldn't always attack you when you scan them. I mean, wanted ships don't attack you just because you scan them. If you take out your gun afterwards, well, that would be a different story....
• Second, if the wanted NPC opens fire first, then the base should side with the player, not the NPC.

What's worse is that I gain bounties simply from defending my own life. I act in self defense and I keep getting bounties.

just did the same thing, whole settlement attacked me

 

[varonica]

The wanted NPC saw me scanning them, yes. I never took out any of my guns.

Upon scanning the wanted NPC, he immediately drew his gun and started shooting at me and the base immediately went on full alert. All the other NPCs in the base (most/all of whom where clean NPCs) also came after me. I still hadn't taken out my gun, but I just tried to run away.

It just feels like stupid AI where all of the NPCs automatically team up regardless of status. They will never side with the player, no matter what.

What has status to do with it? Just because someone doesn't have a bounty doesn't mean they aren't a criminal, all it means is they haven't been caught or identified. Two scenarios, 1) all the other NPC's on the base were friends of the one you were hunting, or 2) the NPC you scanned reported you to security as a dangerous intruder.

Regardless of the status of the other NPC's, if an NPC sounds the alert for a dangerous armed intruder in the settlement they are going to respond in exactly this way. You sneak into a settlement, get caught scanning someone, the alarm was sounded, you are now the enemy of everyone in the settlement! They aren't a team, they are literally the residents of the settlement, you don't think they would all fight on the same side to fight off an armed assailant. And why would you imagine some of them would join you?

What are they thinking? "Oh an armed and dangerous intruder, he'll be alone against everyone in the settlement, maybe some of us should join him and start attacking our fellow settlement residents"?

 

[Guyperson]

Triggering hostility by revealing a bounty right in the target's face does not immediately set the whole settlement against you. It's your own actions or lack thereof from that point onward that culminate in the Benny Hill sequence. Somebody who is aware of you has to first sound the alarm, and this isn't instant. If you and the target are alone you can just put one in their dome and make yourself scarce. Anyone nearby who heard the commotion will come to investigate but as long as they don't spot you while they're on alert they wont set off the whole settlement. Even if they find the body they won't immediately pin it on you if you're not around. If there were any "clean" witnesses to your bounty hunting amateur hour then you done messed up twice and you can choose to either make them all spontaneously stop being witnesses or you can spare yourself the notoriety and beat a hasty retreat.

Everyone's a lot more vulnerable on foot when they're not surrounded by shields and armoured bulkheads with an easy escape route by FSD, and you see it all the time in the NPCs' behaviour. Scanning someone for a bounty is a precursor to an execution and it's oh-so-easy to instantly end someone on foot, so it's hardly surprising that they try to pull a Han Solo. Neither is it surprising that the target's neighbors/colleagues would come to their aid against some random merc intruding in the place. There's no way they're not aware of the target's bounty given how easy it is to check, which means it's either not issued in their jurisdiction or they just don't care about it.

Even before Odyssey you could see a similar response from authority ships in space. If you scan someone and uncover only out-of-jurisdiction bounties, you can open fire on them without incurring a bounty yourself but any authority ships present will go hostile anyway because as far as they're concerned the target was clean. And you'll still receive an assault/murder bounty if you fight back against the cops too.

 

[Frop]

Triggering hostility by revealing a bounty right in the target's face does not immediately set the whole settlement against you. It's your own actions or lack thereof from that point onward that culminate in the Benny Hill sequence. Somebody who is aware of you has to first sound the alarm, and this isn't instant. If you and the target are alone you can just put one in their dome and make yourself scarce.

That's not OP's point, it's about the reaction of the rest of the base when you do out someone in public view. For lawful factions it doesn't seem like the most appropriate response.

 

[Screemonster]

the scanned dude: "Crap, they found me, I'd better take him out before he takes me out, I'll call my friends for backup"
everyone else on the base: "this random outsider wants to kill Dave, we don't want him to kill Dave, Dave is our friend."

I actually like that you have to be halfway stealthy when you're checking people out. You're not a cop, you're a bounty hunter looking for marks. A vigilante at best.

 

[varonica]

That's not OP's point, it's about the reaction of the rest of the base when you do out someone in public view. For lawful factions it doesn't seem like the most appropriate response.

He's invading a settlement, scanning personnel, carrying weapons, all illegal, this is the correct response when the alarm is raised. Firstly that person may not have a bounty with the faction running the settlement, as far as bounties are concerned anyone can put a bounty, a rival corporation, different government, a mafia type crime syndicate. You invade a settlement, wave weapons around, start scanning people you are behaving in a hostile manner. The response is appropriate, you are an armed and presumed dangerous intruder.

I think the funniest thing about the entire things is, he thinks some of the settlement inhabitants should join sides with him, why on any earth anywhere would they do that?

 

[Screemonster]

That's not OP's point, it's about the reaction of the rest of the base when you do out someone in public view. For lawful factions it doesn't seem like the most appropriate response.

If you've seen some of the missions they give out, it's pretty clear that "lawful" factions are anything but in this universe.

 

[Ettanin]

Also, pursuing a head hunt for a bounty not valid in the current jurisdiction is a crime.

Using the scanner on foot is the equivalent of using a kill warrant scanner on ship.

 

[Guyperson]

That's not OP's point, it's about the reaction of the rest of the base when you do out someone in public view. For lawful factions it doesn't seem like the most appropriate response.

I disagree, and I covered that in the very next paragraph of the post you quoted.

 

[Frop]

I disagree, and I covered that in the very next paragraph of the post you quoted.

That's fair, and I agree that the player is just a dangerous a-hole with a bunch of weapons on his back. But that should restrict your access to a settlement and the accompanying buildings in the first place. If you don't have any tangible business there, they shouldn't allow you to dock and/or disembark anyway.

 

[CMDR Yates]

Also, pursuing a head hunt for a bounty not valid in the current jurisdiction is a crime.

Using the scanner on foot is the equivalent of using a kill warrant scanner on ship.

I think this is the important nuance that's being lost due to the way the information is presented on-screen.

You're looking to assassinate someone who is seen as a free, law-abiding citizen in the current jurisdiction, because there's money on their head in another, separate jurisdiction. You're not showing up with an extradition agreement or diplomatic arrangement. You're executing violent action for one state on a different state's soil, without that state's permission.

Might as well be splashing a bucket of Novichok around.


It would probably be a good idea if the on-foot UI differentiated between Local Bounties and Foreign Bounties, to make this all a bit clearer.

Additionally, it would make sense if the relevant NPC, if choosing to attack you when discovered (having previously had no local bounties), attained a local bounty for assault on doing so, making them fair game. Or at the very least, the penalty for attacking them could be listed, making it self-defence. This could be suppressed in anarchy and criminal settlements so their pals in those types of settlement continue to behave as they do currently (gang members sticking together).

In law-abiding settlements, there could also be a random chance of the NPC not attacking but instead saying "up yours, I'm clean in this system, you can't touch me", then it's up to you whether to leave it, go stealth on them, or risk the wrath of the local authorities.

 

[Guyperson]

That's fair, and I agree that the player is just a dangerous a-hole with a bunch of weapons on his back. But that should restrict your access to a settlement and the accompanying buildings in the first place. If you don't have any tangible business there, they shouldn't allow you to dock and/or disembark anyway.

Yeah that's what you'd expect but they seem to follow the same permissive access privileges as starports allowing just about anyone into the general areas, presumably for commerce reasons. This is balanced by the draconian rules that must be followed, ie: loitering over a pad = express dissasembly, or shoot the new guy and ask questions never. It's really no wonder the inhabitants are so jumpy.

 

[Northpin]

just did the same thing, whole settlement attacked me

So... it's like nothing changed in the last 5 months.

 

[varonica]

That's fair, and I agree that the player is just a dangerous a-hole with a bunch of weapons on his back. But that should restrict your access to a settlement and the accompanying buildings in the first place. If you don't have any tangible business there, they shouldn't allow you to dock and/or disembark anyway.

Good idea, in the future all players on infiltrating missions must fly there in their own ships, land out of range of settlement radar, drive their SRV close and hide it nearby, then sneak in on foot to infiltrate the base. Of course that might increase the length of missions beyond what players find acceptable, but realistically it's much better, I don't know why they even bothered with Apex in the first place.

 

[Ingram]

Good idea, in the future all players on infiltrating missions must fly there in their own ships, land out of range of settlement radar, drive their SRV close and hide it nearby, then sneak in on foot to infiltrate the base. Of course that might increase the length of missions beyond what players find acceptable, but realistically it's much better, I don't know why they even bothered with Apex in the first place.

Then after long hours of ground play you get blue/gold cobra from mission server disconnect and has to kill and restart client, or you get pathetic 1x ionized gas but you already got 3 from local locker, or even when you hand in the mission for some bug it directly gives you 20000crs reward instead of promised mats.

You realized you dont need to get any mission at all, just go directly raid every ground settlement, especially anarchy settlement again and again.
Kill everything moving, grab everything worthy and shut every power plant.

It's a good idea to make this game more enjoyable. However sadly its graphics engine, network infrastructure and the nature of progressive content generation made this game can hardly provide stable playing experience for a mission that does not contact mission server very often (staying in instance playing too long). In current stage the most stable, no crashing, no low FPS issue, no suddenly mission cannot hand-in, no server disconnect (avoid long local playing) style of gaming is:

Find an IND ground settlement in night zone, on a non-atmosphere planet, no drill structures so it's less likely to have low FPS issue.
Fly your own ship land directly into restriction zone, murder, switch off alarm, slaughter, collect data and mats, shutoff power plant take off, supercruise then disengage, fly back and land directly into restriction zone, murder, switch off alarm, slaughter, collect data and mats, shutoff power plant, take off, supercruise then disengage, fly back and land directly into restriction zone, murder, switch off alarm, slaughter, collect data and mats, shutoff power plant, take off, supercruise then disengage, fly back and land directly into restriction zone, murder, switch off alarm, slaughter, collect data and mats, shutoff power plant, take off, supercruise then disengage, fly back and land directly into restriction zone, murder, switch off alarm, slaughter, collect data and mats, shutoff power plant, take off, supercruise then disengage, fly back and land directly into restriction zone, murder, switch off alarm, slaughter, collect data and mats, shutoff power plant, take off, supercruise then disengage, fly back and land directly into restriction zone, murder, switch off alarm, slaughter, collect data and mats, shutoff power plant, take off, supercruise then disengage, fly back and land directly into restriction zone, murder, switch off alarm, slaughter, collect data and mats, shutoff power plant, take off, supercruise then disengage, fly back and land directly into restriction zone, murder, switch off alarm, slaughter, collect data and mats, shutoff power plant, take off, supercruise then disengage, fly back and land directly into restriction zone, murder, switch off alarm, slaughter, collect data and mats, shutoff power plant, take off, supercruise then disengage, fly back and land directly into restriction zone, murder, switch off alarm, slaughter, collect data and mats, shutoff power plant, take off, supercruise then disengage, fly back and land directly into restriction zone, murder, switch off alarm, slaughter, collect data and mats, shutoff power plant, take off, supercruise then disengage, fly back and land directly into restriction zone, murder, switch off alarm, slaughter, collect data and mats, shutoff power plant, take off, supercruise then disengage ...

It works, player shoot, player collect, player stealth shutoff alarm, player got mats and data, although it's just a plain grind. lolz

 

[Screemonster]

That's fair, and I agree that the player is just a dangerous a-hole with a bunch of weapons on his back. But that should restrict your access to a settlement and the accompanying buildings in the first place. If you don't have any tangible business there, they shouldn't allow you to dock and/or disembark anyway.

You know, it would be good if certain settlements (such as military ones) had restrictions on what suits you're allowed to bring and would treat any other suit as if you had a weapon out at all times.

Show up to a high-sec military settlement in a dominator and they're gonna consider you a threat on sight. If you're just there for an innocent collection mission, you should be able to just do it in your flight suit, right?