Sea of Thieves mission model could work in Elite

Muzz UK

Muzz UK
Hopped onto Sea of Thieves during the anniversary update whilst on sale. Those who haven't played it's basically an open world pirate game! You run a ship and sail around killing skeletons, digging up treasure, raiding forts and occasionally pirating other players or forming alliances to share profits. Combat is either ship vs ship or you go at eachother with swords and pistols. There's other things in game like sea storms and resupplying your ships cannon balls, wood and food to keep you going. The game is very balanced as there's no perks, weapon unlocks or things to make higher level players more powerful. Every member of the crew has to be involved repairing the ship, bailing water, using the sails and steering the ship.

One of the factions in the game Gold Hoarders gives you random missions. These involve reading maps, locating islands and then searching for treasure and loot then digging it up. Whats nice about this is you never know how many maps you'll get, what players you'll run into or what will spawn on the island in terms of loot, enemies and supplies. I really feel adding a search and find element to the Elite mission system could work. As you level up your faction rep in Sea of Thieves the missions start becoming more valuable and the enemy difficulty scales. There's always that risk involved you could be attacked by a sea creature, skeleton ship or other players... do you sail to the next island with loot onboard or do you hand in?

This could work in Elite and would spice up the mission system. You could have several factions in a small cluster of system generating a mission every few days. Players are then given clues to a planet or area in space where a crashed ship is for example. Other players or Wings could take the same mission. You can either work together or against the other Wings to find the crashed ship. Along the way NPC's could interdict you or when you get to the location a new map or list of clues is given to you. When you finally reach the crashed ship two options could be available to either escort it back home or help it repair by bringing supplies to it.

I feel making the player find the location through clues and hints rather than just having a map marker and allowing others to be involved would make things more interesting. Credit rewards, rep gains and faction boosts could still be available. They would sort of work like mini community goals or scenarios that the game generates. As they are generated every few days and open to many players you can only take the mission once per day or per generation.

Example:

Take Mission > Given clues to type of planet or location in one of several systems > Explore systems > Find more data/clues > Find right system and belt/planet/station > Find ship > Destroy ship / Repair ship > Go back to station > Rep change / Reward if you helped faction or angry response if you worked against faction.

With Sea of Thieves sometimes you'll get one treasure map containing 5 chests to find and dig up other times you'll get 5 maps each with one chest per island. The same could work with these missions... sometimes you need to search 5 locations for one ship or search 1 locations for many ships. Doesn't have to be ships either maybe its finding a target to kill rather than saving? or give the option to do either according to how you support or view the faction?

Anyway you can get Sea of Thieves on the XBOX pass for PC and XBOX for £1 month at the moment so I seriously recommend trying it out. Add me on XBOX Windows 10 app: MuzzUK if you're UK based and fancy playing.
 
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Marc D. Ogre

Marc D. Ogre
I think bigger variety in the missions is never a bad thing. However, having played both elite and sea of thieves, I am sure some of the aspects you mention would just not work in elite, and others are already in there.

For example, the search on an according to clues would not be that interesting in elite, because there are no real landmarks you could explore on the planets. I know of a mission type where you had to find commodities on a planet surface with a system where you knew about the position roughly and whilst getting closer to the planet, the scans gave you a more and more precise position of the crashed ship. In my view this is as close as you could get to such a type of search.

The thing about getting clues and flying in different systems for more is already in, for example with assassination missions you sometimes have to find the enemy first, scanning data points on bases or meeting someone who gives you the name of the right system. Some data delivery and trade missions also sometimes change the delivery destination, have time limits or you get an offer from a different faction to get the goods elsewhere. Attacks by enemies trying to prevent you from finishing the mission are common in all mission types as far as I know. And sometimes, you get missions in supercruise, either by faction NPCs or some mysterious clues to a planet and some coordinates, like a treasure hunt.

Maybe you thought about more steps in each mission, so that a more complex story unfolds, but you also have to think about the reward system: As long as the payout doesn't increase with each step, I at least could imagine that it would feel just not worth it to go the extra mile for the handfull of credits you already know you only get.
 

DragonIV

DragonIV
The other thing FDev needs to figure out is making the reward worth the effort. Their current "Hey, there's this ship out here at XYZ you should check out" mission is partially like what you describe above, but the rewards are paltry for the time and effort invested and the content ends up being not all that interesting.
 

DragonIV

DragonIV
dragoniv said:
The other thing FDev needs to figure out is making the reward worth the effort. Their current "Hey, there's this ship out here at XYZ you should check out" mission is partially like what you describe above, but the rewards are paltry for the time and effort invested and the content ends up being not all that interesting.
Click to expand...

I should definitely read to the bottom of previous posts. :D
 

JesusRocks1988

JesusRocks1988
I think, and I've said this a few times in a few different ways, that what Elite's missions need is not necessarily more variety (which they absolutely do need, I'm in no disagreement about that), but more polish on the existing missions.

What I mean by that is, taking your example:

Take Mission > Given clues to type of planet or location in one of several systems > Explore systems > Find more data/clues > Find right system and belt/planet/station > Find ship > Destroy ship / Repair ship > Go back to station > Rep change / Reward if you helped faction or angry response if you worked against faction.

You've got to think about how this would work in Elite as it currently stands - how would this mission be substantially different from any of the missions that are currently in the game? In fact, you could say that this type of mission is pretty much par for the course in Elite (with minor differences).

The thing about Elite's missions is that technically they're fine. They have everything a mission needs - clear terms and objective, a destination, and a reward. There's even technically different types of gameplay there; fighting ships if it's a combat mission, collecting commodities if it's a trade mission and so on. They even have wrinkles - pirates after your mission commodities or information, bounty hunters, mission givers changing their minds etc... You can collect missions from starports, or you can be given missions randomly in space. There are lots of different mission types as well; donation, mining, warfare, bounty hunting, assassination, trading, passenger, courier... and each of these have their own sub-types.
The missions are functionally complete, they do the job, they are what missions should be, generally speaking.

But... they don't really feel rewarding, and they're missing something that would elevate them to truly enjoyable and worthwhile experiences. This is the polish that I'm talking about, and I think it's purely in the way the missions are presented to the player - they're very matter-of-fact without anything that really connects them to the galaxy, or the systems that they're taking place in, and it doesn't take long for the "peek behind the curtain" effect to occur, where all the mystery and wonder disappears as you learn how the mission system works. You know that wherever you go, you'll have the same mission archetypes which will all play out in mostly the same fashion. Wrinkles are treated as annoyances that get in the way of the efficiency of doing the mission as quickly as possible.

In other words, the seams are showing.

Here are some suggestions to make missions feel more dynamic, rewarding, satisfactory or otherwise interesting:

Greater Differentiation between Mission Archetypes
Case in point: Passenger Missions feel like Trading Missions.
There needs to be more variance between the parent mission types so that they feel legitimately different. This has already begun a little with the Cargo Depot for Trading Missions but when you're in space and doing the mission, it still boils down to ferrying X from A to B. Well, there are a few ways we can make Passenger Missions feel like we're transporting people, rather than cargo:
  • Passengers to act more like passengers:
    • Passenger Lounge to have a different background sound, so that it sounds more like a busy airport or train station. So from the get-go, navigating to the passenger lounge in starport services has a noticeable difference to the regular missions.
    • Accepting a passenger mission is accompanied by the sound of passengers boarding (maybe the sound of boots clanking up a boarding ramp and general chatter)
    • Looking at your right panel and viewing the Cabins tab shows a sliding satisfaction scale for each of your passengers (applies individually to the VIP passengers, but applies as a group to the more bulk versions), and the VIP demands would show up here, as well as a record of the things that have displeased them about the trip - taken hull damage, got scanned, took too long etc... For the VIPs you'll also have their portrait from the mission board. This would be instead of the current view showing nondescript bodies filling up cabin spaces.
    • VIP demands for cargo for you to buy would:
      • Always offset the cost for you to buy them by a substantial amount
      • Be consumed by the VIP rather than left in your cargo hold
      • Add substantially to your final reward
    • VIP demands to go to other places, such as Conflict Zones, would contain messages from the passenger commenting appropriately on what they're viewing.
    • Sightseeing passengers wouldn't just be satisfied with scanning the tourist beacon and going, but they would make comments on what they're supposed to be looking at, like, "ooh" "that's incredible" "wow I didn't realise the history behind this place!"
    • Add requests for Room Service, and a button in the right panel to send room service down to the passenger: doing it would increase their satisfaction, and therefore add to your final reward.
    • Completing a VIP mission at full satisfaction would add a relatively high random chance for them to add a Rare Commodity to your reward.
    • The game records the names of the VIPs you've transported, and if you take a mission for someone of the same name again, they will comment that (depending on the final satisfaction level of your previous mission with them) they enjoyed their last trip with you, or hope you do better this time around.
    • Exploration Passenger Missions to include extra little wrinkles that are unique to this type such as the passenger asking you to Probe a particular planet, scan an entire system, supercharge your FSD from the neutron star, fly over to a particular body (must sit within the body's SOI for a few seconds to satisfy them), or even go to the next system over (chosen at random by the game from the list of nearby systems). All in the name of their scientific research.
    • Carrying a wanted passenger to no longer result in instant death, but in being arrested and the passenger removed from your ship (failing the mission).
    • When passengers get really disgruntled and eject themselves - have sound effects of an escape pod being launched.
      • Spawn an Occupied Escape Pod in a USS in that system so you have the option to pick them up again and transport them as Salvage back home and, though you've failed the mission, you can still sell them to the Search and Rescue contact.
      • Allow them to be sold on the black market.
      • Add a button for you to eject the passenger yourself if you get really irritated by them - mission failed text pops up telling you that you've killed your passenger and are now Wanted in the system you got the mission from (only applies to Clean passengers)
  • Cargo Hauling missions to be more conspicuous as hauling cargo:
    • Sound design yet again: make the commodities market have a some background sounds that remind the player of a warehouse or even a stock market floor. Alternatively, some generic electronic sounds to indicate something to do with e-commerce.
    • Add expiry and decay to some goods, but convert them into a different, illegal commodity (like poison, toxic waste, narcotics etc...) of a very slightly lesser worth.
    • Allow us to refuel our ships (1T at a time) using Hydrogen Fuel canisters in our cargo hold in an emergency.
    • Further refine the cargo depot (I'll leave that to your imagination).
  • Courier missions to feel less like trade missions:
    • Transferring the data to the proper faction or to the black market using a mini-game, rather than simply hand the mission in.
Greater Variance and Backstory to Mission Sub-Types
Case in point: We can only ever deliver salvage, or not. We are very limited in what we can do about it and what we can know about it, and how we can interact with it.
  • Salvage missions to give branching options:
    • Salvage always an option to sell to the black market for a slightly higher price, but massive negative rep gain, rather than handing the mission in.
    • Have different interested parties contact us to offer to take the salvage off our hands (such as occupied escape pods and a new NPC type: Slavers) while in space after collecting the items. For a high price, of course.
    • Allow us to know the name of the person in the occupied escape pod, and when handed in, they can become a one-time mission giver (chain mission type) to send us for revenge on the person who blew up his ship, or to steal something back from someone etc...
  • Greater interaction with Salvage Items:
    • Allow us to scan the escape pods and know the name and backstory of the occupant, including fate of the ship they were on.
    • Let hostages be people in space suits, not a canister.
    • Give us the option to hack into black boxes and steal information rather than hand them in, giving us a voucher to be handed in to a rival faction. This information pushes the BGS progress bar towards a War state.

... That's actually all I can think of at the moment, there's bound to be so much more we can do - little things - to improve the presentation of missions and have them feel better and more satisfying to complete.
 

Enderby

E
I imagine, with sadness, that they can't do this because FD made ED in what I, as a layman, might take as a clunky short-sighted way that means that only the most very, very basic missions can ever, ever, be in game.

I would LOVE to be proved wrong.
 

Tarman

Tarman
Enderby said:
I imagine, with sadness, that they can't do this because FD made ED in what I, as a layman, might take as a clunky short-sighted way that means that only the most very, very basic missions can ever, ever, be in game.

I would LOVE to be proved wrong.
Click to expand...
No matter what happens, I'm always impressed with your stamina to await said future. o7
 

WorldsGreatestForumDad

Banned
WorldsGreatestForumDad
steve_muzz said:
Hopped onto Sea of Thieves during the anniversary update whilst on sale. Those who haven't played it's basically an open world pirate game! You run a ship and sail around killing skeletons, digging up treasure, raiding forts and occasionally pirating other players or forming alliances to share profits. Combat is either ship vs ship or you go at eachother with swords and pistols. There's other things in game like sea storms and resupplying your ships cannon balls, wood and food to keep you going. The game is very balanced as there's no perks, weapon unlocks or things to make higher level players more powerful. Every member of the crew has to be involved repairing the ship, bailing water, using the sails and steering the ship.

One of the factions in the game Gold Hoarders gives you random missions. These involve reading maps, locating islands and then searching for treasure and loot then digging it up. Whats nice about this is you never know how many maps you'll get, what players you'll run into or what will spawn on the island in terms of loot, enemies and supplies. I really feel adding a search and find element to the Elite mission system could work. As you level up your faction rep in Sea of Thieves the missions start becoming more valuable and the enemy difficulty scales. There's always that risk involved you could be attacked by a sea creature, skeleton ship or other players... do you sail to the next island with loot onboard or do you hand in?

This could work in Elite and would spice up the mission system. You could have several factions in a small cluster of system generating a mission every few days. Players are then given clues to a planet or area in space where a crashed ship is for example. Other players or Wings could take the same mission. You can either work together or against the other Wings to find the crashed ship. Along the way NPC's could interdict you or when you get to the location a new map or list of clues is given to you. When you finally reach the crashed ship two options could be available to either escort it back home or help it repair by bringing supplies to it.

I feel making the player find the location through clues and hints rather than just having a map marker and allowing others to be involved would make things more interesting. Credit rewards, rep gains and faction boosts could still be available. They would sort of work like mini community goals or scenarios that the game generates. As they are generated every few days and open to many players you can only take the mission once per day or per generation.

Example:

Take Mission > Given clues to type of planet or location in one of several systems > Explore systems > Find more data/clues > Find right system and belt/planet/station > Find ship > Destroy ship / Repair ship > Go back to station > Rep change / Reward if you helped faction or angry response if you worked against faction.

With Sea of Thieves sometimes you'll get one treasure map containing 5 chests to find and dig up other times you'll get 5 maps each with one chest per island. The same could work with these missions... sometimes you need to search 5 locations for one ship or search 1 locations for many ships. Doesn't have to be ships either maybe its finding a target to kill rather than saving? or give the option to do either according to how you support or view the faction?

Anyway you can get Sea of Thieves on the XBOX pass for PC and XBOX for £1 month at the moment so I seriously recommend trying it out. Add me on XBOX Windows 10 app: MuzzUK if you're UK based and fancy playing.
Click to expand...
Not just the mission system. But they could really take into account how multicrew should work here as well. Its so good working together as team in the middle of a battle.So much better than being an extra PIP.
 

CMDR Karrde Sun

CMDR Karrde Sun
I'm probably the only person in elite that plays these (given the bugs) but ground and space salvage missions currently are the closest to whats described. The discovery of where the location feels close enough to looking up a treasure map in elites version, and getting out with your srv to pick up the salvage is the most immersive mission type in the game imo.

There's already a bit of potential which could use a buff:

  • There are random canisters around the salvage which contain commodities that are only there for show. There's so much potential to make these valuable or more interesting.
  • Sometimes, a ship drops in during the experience and tries to rob you. Its rare and they may have turned it off.. but this is amazing when it happens and what first triggered me looking at the type-10 (now my favourite ship).. a hulking salvage freighter with guns for those moments.
If frontier did an unheard of balance pass for these least popular missions in the game they could be amazing and pull in main streamers. Right now you only do them for rp.

Just in case you want to try, ground based colonies are the best for getting the missions (and fit the atmosphere of what you're about to do).

Just be careful as there are some contradictions in the implementation.. they're supposed to be the zero threat zero pay missions but sometimes it exists. The space salvage ones are even worse, they can possibly spawn a threat 4 mission signal source, which anaondas in wings drop in and instantly open fire, zero chance of escape unless you're expecting to do a pvp like response and abandon the mission.. or do whatever you do in a salvage ship when instantly attacked by a winged anaconda.

The bugs when you stack them are funny too :)
 
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