Sensors, Scanners and Missiles

Hi all,

Some of the ideas and concepts below may well have been brought up before, but I thought I would add in my thoughts on why a ships Sensors should be the most important part of the ship and be the limiting factor (regarding range) for weapons lock as well as Scanner ranges.

So to start, a ships Sensors are currently underused by many players as they draw lots of power but only give better range with which to find a target, which of course is limited by the heat being given off by that target (so a ship silent running etc. will reduce this effective range). Many players see this as of little value, so use lower class sensors (usually D) to save that power and use it for larger weapons etc.

To me this seems a bit silly, as Sensors are the eyes and ears of the ship and typically with anything of a military nature more information is better, especially if that information can be gained easier, quicker or from a greater distance.

So how can they become more useful? Well, a seemingly simple code change could allow the Sensors to also be the limiting factor (range wise) for all of the Scanners that can be fitted to a ship (Kill Warrant, Cargo and Wake at the time of writing).

Currently these scanners have varying classes and power requirements that limit their range, but they all require the same amount of time (10 seconds) to actually resolve the scan. The costs, power requirements etc. could all stay the same, but higher classes of Scanner would allow the time of the scan to be reduced (see the example table below).

Scanner----Time to Complete
Class-------Scan (seconds)---Range
-------------------------------------------------------------------
A----------2-----------------Based on the quality of the ship Sensors
B----------4-----------------Based on the quality of the ship Sensors
C----------6-----------------Based on the quality of the ship Sensors
D----------8-----------------Based on the quality of the ship Sensors
E----------10----------------Based on the quality of the ship Sensors

If this were to be implemented then players may well decide that they want to have quicker scan times and so would sacrifice power to that end (more players may end up using higher quality scanners). It also makes sense for some larger and less manoeuvrable ships, as they may have difficulty in keeping a target to their front for 10 seconds to complete a scan, but 2 seconds would be much more doable.

There is also the question of why a scan needs to be initiated separately from when your target another ship. Surely if you have something like a Kill Warrant Scanner installed and powered on your ship, then you would want that scan to imitate every time you target a ship, rather than have to hold down a fire button every time. A toggle at least you should be given to allow this option as this would for instance allow two different weapons to be active on a fire group whilst a scan is automatically in progress, which would be very useful for players that like to use missiles (as they require time to lock), which brings me on to my final point.

Missiles; they are fine as they are (perhaps they could do a bit more hull damage), as they are currently limited by Sensor range anyway, but why do they require nearly as much power, or for the class two more power, than an equivalent class beam laser? It does not make sense to me as they are just pods that make use of the ships Sensors to be able to lock their target. To make them more appealing to players, as they are currently seen as subpar weapons to the majority, change them to have similar power requirements to kinetic weapons such as canons or multi-canons.

So in summary; make a ships Sensors the limiting factor for range for all weapon locks and Scanners, make different classes of Scanners vary the time to complete a scan and make missiles more power efficient to make them more attractive to players.

Regards,

C.
 
Last edited:
Top-rated sensors are underrated.

Most of the people which say they can't find enough targets in RES would benefit from A-rated sensors. It makes all the difference between "there's nobody here" and "oh there's people here after all".

And although I have no measurements to prove this, I can almost swear that top sensors make gimballed weapons regain lock on targets faster.
 
Top-rated sensors are underrated.

Most of the people which say they can't find enough targets in RES would benefit from A-rated sensors. It makes all the difference between "there's nobody here" and "oh there's people here after all".

And although I have no measurements to prove this, I can almost swear that top sensors make gimballed weapons regain lock on targets faster.

Indeed, I myself like to use A rated sensors just for this (being able to see who is about), its just a shame that other elements of the ship are not integrated effectively with the senor suite, which (to me) seems to be a rather odd.
 
Last edited:
Top-rated sensors are underrated.

Most of the people which say they can't find enough targets in RES would benefit from A-rated sensors. It makes all the difference between "there's nobody here" and "oh there's people here after all".

And although I have no measurements to prove this, I can almost swear that top sensors make gimballed weapons regain lock on targets faster.

I honestly can't see why anyone would put low grade sensors on a ship unless it is a freighter. Every ship in my fleet has the best sensor suite except the T9 & Anaconda.
 
C4 Particle Accelerator. Planetary bombardment weapon, destroys small ships in a single shot. 2.6MJ.
Rank A KWS. Range ~4km, 10s scan time. 3.2MJ.

As to missiles, fully agree. the C1 mounts aren't that bad, since at least you can mount them on most things, but the C2 mount power requirements being higher than a similar class beam laser is ridiculous.


Edit: As for sensors, personally I'd like to fit the highest grade sensor I can-- except you already need A-grade thrusters, powerplant and distributor-- and combat ships can't really spare the power for A-grade sensors and still retain a decent semblance of offense and defence.
 
Last edited:
I honestly can't see why anyone would put low grade sensors on a ship unless it is a freighter. Every ship in my fleet has the best sensor suite except the T9 & Anaconda.

Because of mass and power considerations? Pretty simple. For most ships fitting is a trade off, currently top rated scanners don't provide enough benefit to make them more desirable than fitting better weapons, another booster or scb, better thrusters etc.

Top-rated sensors are underrated.

Most of the people which say they can't find enough targets in RES would benefit from A-rated sensors. It makes all the difference between "there's nobody here" and "oh there's people here after all".

And although I have no measurements to prove this, I can almost swear that top sensors make gimballed weapons regain lock on targets faster.

Anybody having trouble finding targets in a RES with low rated sensors needs to learn to use their eyes more. I generally run D rated on most of my combat ships and never struggle with finding targets.

Your last comment also makes no sense. Lock time is instant and there is certainly no difference between gimballs, fixed and turrets as far as scanners go.
 
Anybody having trouble finding targets in a RES with low rated sensors needs to learn to use their eyes more. I generally run D rated on most of my combat ships and never struggle with finding targets.

Oh so you have eyes that can see far way and spot a ship 7km away in pitch black, and in all directions at once, good for you! You're right, top sensors are absolutely useless! sigh...
 
Oh so you have eyes that can see far way and spot a ship 7km away in pitch black, and in all directions at once, good for you! You're right, top sensors are absolutely useless! sigh...

Laser fire is most likely what he is referring to. Even when I have A class sensors I still use eye sight more than my sensors, in an RES.
 
Last edited:
Laser fire is most likely what he is referring to. Even when I have A class sensors I still use eye sight more than my sensors, in an RES.

That is true, but there is only laser fire when thing actually start to heat up. Doesn't render good sensors useless. When you arrive at the RES, and for long minutes, nobody is firing, specially at RES with very low police presence. Top sensors can spot a big target arriving at long-distance, way before he starts firing at anyone.
 
Oh so you have eyes that can see far way and spot a ship 7km away in pitch black, and in all directions at once, good for you! You're right, top sensors are absolutely useless! sigh...

Going straight for the snide response, well done. To answer your point; Yes I can often spot ships well over the maximum range of scanners. This is either by movement against the star/asteroid field, engine trails or weapons discharge. You can easily spot a fight going on at 15K+. Your ship also has the ability to turn, not in all directions at once, but generally quickly enough to scan the field efficiently.

Also; space is not pitch black and I never stated that top scanners are 'absolutely useless'. I'd suggest you work on your observation skills both in the forum and the game, perhaps.

Why do you even think I would make this up? lol

- - - Updated - - -

Laser fire is most likely what he is referring to. Even when I have A class sensors I still use eye sight more than my sensors, in an RES.

You can actually spot Flak cannons, multis, Plasma Accelerators and lasers, not to mention chaff, from far beyond scanner range. You can also spot ship movement.
 
Last edited:
Going straight for the snide response, well done. To answer your point; Yes I can often spot ships well over the maximum range of scanners. This is either by movement against the star/asteroid field, engine trails or weapons discharge. You can easily spot a fight going on at 15K+. Your ship also has the ability to turn, not in all directions at once, but generally quickly enough to scan the field efficiently.

Also; space is not pitch black and I never stated that top scanners are 'absolutely useless'. I'd suggest you work on your observation skills both in the forum and the game, perhaps.

I'll schedule an ophthalmologist appointment right away. After all, I clearly have to "learn to use my eyes more" before "going straight to snide responses"... ;)

Everyone knows that huge flashes of weapons firing indicate locations of ships. That's not the point. The point is top-rated sensors are very useful and can spot ships in the distance, identify these ships in the distance, in all directions at once, allowing you to know before hand if it is worth approaching or not a lot better than any hawkeyes with top contrast noticing, movement spotting, or constant ship turnarounds.

Its a module that provides some real advantages and some people mmay not actually be aware of them because they may dismiss them as useless before trying them out in situations that profit from them.

Anyway nobody has to use them, but their usefullness is underrated.
 
Last edited:
I'll schedule an ophthalmologist appointment right away. After all, I clearly have to "learn to use my eyes more" before "going straight to snide responses"... ;)

Everyone knows that huge flashes of weapons firing indicate locations of ships. That's not the point. The point is top-rated sensors are very useful and can spot ships in the distance, identify these ships in the distance, in all directions at once, allowing you to know before hand if it is worth approaching or not a lot better than any hawkeyes with top contrast noticing, movement spotting, or constant ship turnarounds.

Its a module that provides some real advantages and some people mmay not actually be aware of them because they may dismiss them as useless before trying them out in situations that profit from them.

Anyway nobody has to use them, but their usefullness is underrated.

Well, you seem coherent and intelligent so I wondered if that was why you seemed to suggest that I said top grade scanners are useless. ;)

A grade scanners can be helpful, yes. But their range is very limited, any ship within that range is easy to identify visually. Given that currently the RES mechanics are so simplistic, you can say 'Oh hey, Python/Clipper/Dropship.. probably a target' and by the time you hit boost, lock and resolve scan you're just reaching KWS and weapon range.

Yes, it lets you ID ships slightly faster if you're burning over to see what something is due to weapons flashes or movement (and no, you don't need hawk eyes, and my gamma is set very low). But again, I can see what type of ship I'm approaching before I hit 7k anyway and the vast majority of times I'll know whether it's a valid target or not due to the way RES work.

Anyway, I never claimed they were useless. But in my opinion the trade off vs what else I could fit is very rarely worth it, to me that indicates that scanners need some attention. I would like to see a rework of scanner ranges, with a greater disparity in scan range and scan resolution times between ratings. I would also like to see them linked to gimball and turret accuracy (like most people thought they were originally), again with a large disparity between ratings so that E/D would be almost useless except at point blank range and A rated would be very accurate. I'd also like to see chaff and targeting potentially reworked so that chaff breaks lock, forcing players to re-resolve a target, which would compound the value of good quality scanners.
 
Well, you seem coherent and intelligent so I wondered if that was why you seemed to suggest that I said top grade scanners are useless. ;)

A grade scanners can be helpful, yes. But their range is very limited, any ship within that range is easy to identify visually. Given that currently the RES mechanics are so simplistic, you can say 'Oh hey, Python/Clipper/Dropship.. probably a target' and by the time you hit boost, lock and resolve scan you're just reaching KWS and weapon range.

Yes, it lets you ID ships slightly faster if you're burning over to see what something is due to weapons flashes or movement (and no, you don't need hawk eyes, and my gamma is set very low). But again, I can see what type of ship I'm approaching before I hit 7k anyway and the vast majority of times I'll know whether it's a valid target or not due to the way RES work.

Anyway, I never claimed they were useless. But in my opinion the trade off vs what else I could fit is very rarely worth it, to me that indicates that scanners need some attention. I would like to see a rework of scanner ranges, with a greater disparity in scan range and scan resolution times between ratings. I would also like to see them linked to gimball and turret accuracy (like most people thought they were originally), again with a large disparity between ratings so that E/D would be almost useless except at point blank range and A rated would be very accurate. I'd also like to see chaff and targeting potentially reworked so that chaff breaks lock, forcing players to re-resolve a target, which would compound the value of good quality scanners.

Well sir, pardon me because I seem to have misinterpreted your first post and I admit to some excess in my response. When FD implements station walking and spaceport bars, first round is on me. :)

I agree that sensor quality should also be scale to targetting and chaff target breaking, although i have an impression that better sensors aquire lock slightly faster, but I can be wrong.

I said sensors are underrated, because from all the loadouts I seen I am under the impression than many people are unaware of the fact they locate and identify ships at larger distance, and so they dismiss them as useless. And I believe that some of the people that say they can't find ships in RES may be due to not being able to see them on scanners, due to low grade scanner limited range. But again, I can be wrong.
 
...snip...

I said sensors are underrated, because from all the loadouts I seen I am under the impression than many people are unaware of the fact they locate and identify ships at larger distance, and so they dismiss them as useless. And I believe that some of the people that say they can't find ships in RES may be due to not being able to see them on scanners, due to low grade scanner limited range. But again, I can be wrong.

Until recently it was only if I had power in excess that I would ever go above d rated sensors - never really gave them much thought beyond an extra expense. While I've been messing around with silent running and various stealth based builds it has been brought to my attention how the rating of the sensors influences when my blip becomes "resolved" so have now vouched to always run with the best sensor that I can fit and afford even if that means a lesser loadout elsewhere.
 
I agree that sensor quality should also be scale to targetting and chaff target breaking, although i have an impression that better sensors aquire lock slightly faster, but I can be wrong.

Ah, if you mean resolving the target (getting a full ID) then yes, higher rated scanners do it faster. That's one of the things I think there should be a greater disparity in between high and low ratings. Basically I just feel that there's not enough pushing players to make a meaningful choice where they're concerned. A rated scanners are nice, but not a big deal and if power or mass is tight they'll be the second thing I sacrifice after life support... which is also absurd.
 
So in summary; make a ships Sensors the limiting factor for range for all weapon locks and Scanners, make different classes of Scanners vary the time to complete a scan and make missiles more power efficient to make them more attractive to players.

Regards,

C.

Stop. Making. Sense! :)
 
I would love to see some more advanced avionics/sensors/weapons mechanics, but its probably never going to be. As an old sim-buff im missing variety in the sensors and weapons department.
 
I would love to see some more advanced avionics/sensors/weapons mechanics, but its probably never going to be. As an old sim-buff im missing variety in the sensors and weapons department.

It'd be great and actually allow us to build somewhat specialised ships. It would make pvp a lot more interesting as well, right now it's all very predictable and same same.
 
Indeed, I myself like to use A rated sensors just for this (being able to see who is about), its just a shame that other elements of the ship are not integrated effectively with the senor suite, which (to me) seems to be a rather odd.

Agreed. I'd like to see more integration and more 'meaning' from the visual data without having to go to the 'contacts' panel' There are areas, such as the cargo scoop scanner panel area that a window could pop that shows relative distance, type, etc., whatever you want it to show.
 
Back
Top Bottom