Ship Builds & Load Outs Serious problem with Large Multicannons

[SilverbladeTE]

got these for top large mounts on my Python and found a simple problem, one that already exists in multicannons but is much worse in the large ones:

After pressing the trigger it takes several seconds before the damn guns will fire!
this means they aren't much good for dog fighting, and are VERY unresponsive

apart form targeting something as big and slow as a lumbering anaconda (and nowadays even they don't "Lumber"!), you actually have to start firing about 5 seconds BEFORE you plan on the guns opening up
it's damn stupid!

lasers etc don't have this issue and are thus are far more suitable for use in most combats than these new large multicannons

and as tried to get into other games dev's heads, minigun-type weapons do NOT require time to "spin up" before they fire: they fire straight away
it does take like half a second for them to reach maximum fire rate though

the artificial delay between pressing the trigger, to gun fire, is annoying as hell, you are better off using a large laser :/

 

[Alex Brentnall]

this means they aren't much good for dog fighting, and are VERY unresponsive

apart form targeting something as big and slow as a lumbering anaconda (and nowadays even they don't "Lumber"!), you actually have to start firing about 5 seconds BEFORE you plan on the guns opening up
it's damn stupid!

Has it perhaps dawned on you that large and huge weapons are for blasting large and huge ships and not for dogfighting sidewinders and eagles?

lasers etc don't have this issue and are thus are far more suitable for use in most combats than these new large multicannons

Then use Lasers? They do significantly less hull damage and give you significantly more heat.

and as tried to get into other games dev's heads, minigun-type weapons do NOT require time to "spin up" before they fire: they fire straight away
it does take like half a second for them to reach maximum fire rate though

the artificial delay between pressing the trigger, to gun fire, is annoying as hell, you are better off using a large laser :/

As above use a laser if you prefer it or are more effective with it.


Honestly the Python is not a dogfighter, it's about the slowest turning ship in the game after the trade ones. As for spin up time I believe it's called balance, those C3 gimballed multicannons are insanely effective on bigger targets and if they were inst-spin up as you seem to be saying they should be then they'd shred smaller ships instantly leading to half the forum screaming "nerf the multicannons!".

 

[Khromm]

Personally on my Python build (sold for a Clipper because I wanted one) I use two beam turrets on the class 2 slots, and two C3 gimballed multis on the top two slots (the slot under the nose gets switched out for mining laser/missiles/C3 pulse turret dependng on what I'm doing or how I feel). The two beams can run more or less indefiinitely at 3.5 pips in weapons. (Power essentials are both A rated for reference, or an overcharged B rated plant can give around a 28.5 power pool)

Having a loadout like this means that I can put all my main weapons on a single weapon group, and when starting my attack, the delay in spinning up the multicannons means I can flick the trigger once and my beams open up without wasting MC ammo. Compare to ammo wastage if I were to use fragment cannons/normal cannons with the same setup. This in turn means that when taking on a small ship I can just use the beams, which usually shred shields fairly fast and don't take too long to take out my targets FSD (thus allowing me a little more time to take the rest of the target down). It also means that when fighting, if I need the multis, I don't have to switch around weapon groups to keep my turrets firing and use my MCs at the same time. Great for taking out power plants on larger ships. Having all my weapons on the one group means I can use scanners on my secondary group and not start attacking my target when I might not actually want to immediately (KWS on another Python, while cycling to the preferred subsystem target before allowing the target to shoot back, for example), or collector limpets when grinding mats (not that I recommend actually trying to collect while fighting, but you *can* still do it and survive)

The *only* issue I consider worth mentioning is the increased thermal/power profile of the C3 multis - they drain weapon power very rapidly, and a full burst usually results in a "heat damage" warning (not that it actually does any damage, since by then the MCs are usually reloading, and with the power plant/distibutor my beams can still fire constantly while the weapon power recharges, and surprisingly my core temperature still decreases with them firing...). Yes, you might have to pull the trigger a couple of seconds before the weapon opens up, but at least with gimballed weapons you've still got a chance to actually hit, if (like myself) you have problems with a rail gun (can never get the timing on that right in a dogfight). The trick is to not mind the spinup and actually account for it in your playstyle.

 

[Bigskill]

Is normal to have this effect on MC, it happen in real as well, its the time you have to wait for the rotating barrels to reach the right rotation speed.
On a smaller MC will be faster for sure.
The trick is to keep the MC barrel rotating without shooting, try it and you will see that is faster. Just need a bit of testing.

 

[slothman320]

Anybody else find it weird how the multicannon takes more power than the pulse?

 

[KevinMillican]

got these for top large mounts on my Python and found a simple problem, one that already exists in multicannons but is much worse in the large ones:
After pressing the trigger it takes several seconds before the damn guns will fire!
this means they aren't much good for dog fighting, and are VERY unresponsive

Interestingly, the huge multicannon starts up quicker than the large one.

 

[V'larr]

I too find it a total drag that the Large multicannons have such a massive spool-up delay. Very disappointing, honestly. Nice that the Huge ones have no delay, but...ah well.

 

[slothman320]

I too find it a total drag that the Large multicannons have such a massive spool-up delay. Very disappointing, honestly. Nice that the Huge ones have no delay, but...ah well.

I don't mind a spool up on a gun so long as it's worth it. But 5 seconds is absurd. It feels like a bug. What I'm sad I haven't gotten yet is my auto cannon. Not a multicannon an auto cannon. 1 barrel, big bullets.

 

[V'larr]

I don't mind a spool up on a gun so long as it's worth it. But 5 seconds is absurd. It feels like a bug. What I'm sad I haven't gotten yet is my auto cannon. Not a multicannon an auto cannon. 1 barrel, big bullets.

Yes you do, they're just called "cannons" as opposed to "auto-cannon"; the functionality is the exact same.

 

[slothman320]

Yes you do, they're just called "cannons" as opposed to "auto-cannon"; the functionality is the exact same.

Thats not an auto cannon. An auto cannon is an automatic gun that's a slow chug rather than a heavy automatic weapon. If the cannon had about a 300 RPM fire rate then it would be an auto cannon. But it's just a cannon.

 

[Killing Joke]

I too find it a total drag that the Large multi-cannons have such a massive spool-up delay. Very disappointing, honestly. Nice that the Huge ones have no delay, but...ah well.

I can't say I view the huge MC as a multi-cannon. Prior to their implementation MC's were represented as mini-guns or Gatling guns. The huge MC is closer to a quad barreled Bofors which is actually an auto-cannon. I'd love to see Frontier implement AC's as a bridge between Cannons and Multi-cannons offering a middle ground between the penetration of the cannon and the rate of fire of a multi-cannon although I can't see this happening.

In saying all of this though I'd also like to see flak weapons implemented for large ships to protect themselves from smaller targets, arguably the fragmentation fulfills this role I suppose.

 

[FutronBob]

@OP, perhaps you'd like to give the cannon a try? I used to use one on my Vulture almost a year ago in combination with a large beam, and it worked fairly well, though I eventually fell back to the simple efficiency of twin gimballed pulse lasers.

Their velocity was buffed considerably in 2.1, so they should be quite a bit more effective now!

 

[slothman320]

I can't say I view the huge MC as a multi-cannon. Prior to their implementation MC's were represented as mini-guns or Gatling guns. The huge MC is closer to a quad barreled Bofors which is actually an auto-cannon. I'd love to see Frontier implement AC's as a bridge between Cannons and Multi-cannons offering a middle ground between the penetration of the cannon and the rate of fire of a multi-cannon although I can't see this happening.

In saying all of this though I'd also like to see flak weapons implemented for large ships to protect themselves from smaller targets, arguably the fragmentation fulfills this role I suppose.

The huge is absolutely a multicannon. BUT that is only because it has multiple barrels. Literally the only reason. That thing is a 4 barrels auto cannon. The other MCs aren't even close to an auto cannon. This games classification for weaponry boggles my mind. The MCs aren't even MCs they're rotary cannons (barely a cannon really). The gau-25 packs more heat than those things and it uses 20th century tech.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Yes you do, they're just called "cannons" as opposed to "auto-cannon"; the functionality is the exact same.

Multi-Cannon = Gatling design with rotating barrel similar to the A10's Vulcan gun
Auto-Cannon = full-auto cannon similar to Chainguns on Cobra helicopters or AH64 Apache
Cannon = Artillery cannon

Their function is NOT the same and they operate very differently.

The game lacks a weapon between multi-cannons and cannons, a simple moderate to fast fire rate without a need for spin up OR a burst fire light cannon.

 

[Madrax573]

Is normal to have this effect on MC, it happen in real as well, its the time you have to wait for the rotating barrels to reach the right rotation speed.
On a smaller MC will be faster for sure.
The trick is to keep the MC barrel rotating without shooting, try it and you will see that is faster. Just need a bit of testing.

From a 'realism' point of view the bolded statement is incorrect. The modern gatling type weapons fire straight away as soon as the trigger is pulled. It does take a few seconds for them to reach maximum firing rate but they DO fire straight away.

In games they are setup this way purely as a balancing mechanic based on popular perception about the 'spin up' time.

In game however I don't have an issue with it and often switch between MC and normal Cannons depending on what I'm working on. Once you work out the 'lead time' required for the spin up it's just like most other projectile weapons IMO