Proposal Discussion Set the hyperdrive for deep space......

[Listeri69]

I'm sure there is more than one person who's thinking the life of the explorer is for me, but there is very little coming out of frontier about how this will work, where you will save your games?, how you will make money?, will the systems become inhabited and if so how? Is the Galaxy going to expand say like the united states in the 19th century?, for example will there be like a gold rush in a system you've discovered where every asteroid seems to contain high mineral wealth, maybe over time these systems would become mined out and unsuitable to live in creating ghost systems. Or is it going to be a gradual expansion in all directions? from what I gather there will be around a 250 light year bubble for arguments sake lets say its diameter and that contains 30,000 inhabited systems, if memory serves right there were around 700 systems with a starport of some description in 1st encounters so that's a rapid expansion in the years that have supposedly passed since then. They have eluded to new stations being built and various VIPs brought in ect.

In the mean time I'm headed for deeper and deeper space my ship will probably take a pounding, will I have access to repair bots? or something like that. Will i have to map every inch of a system before moving to the next or just stick long range scanners on for a few mins in each system, fuel from the nearest star/gas giant? Can I exchange information with other explorers? is there a certain amount of time before I have to go back to a station/ship yard? Will I ever travel the 3,900 light-years I need to see VY Canis Majoris? anyway these are just some of the questions I have, I just wanted to see what other people wanted, or wanted to see or be able to do

 

[breakpointUK]

Good questions...

I believe that the Explorer is an upcoming topic for the DDF.

I remember hearing rumblings about repair bots for explorer ship, could be a piece of equipment only suited to specific scout ship.

I imagine that through game updates and expansions settlements could spring up around player driven exploration, I see no reason why FD could not analyse player exploration, the most visited systems could be given basic starposts, again more visitors to these new settlements could drive population growth thus providing more and more tech being delivered.. I would also like it to take into account resources availability.

This will be one of the most interesting features of a evolving persistent universe, explorer missions could see the human race expand and be one of the most rewarding roles in the game... I will hopefully have an explorer ship as an alt ship or as an alt commander, will be nice to have a break from all the combat once in a while, I think explorers won't be that interested in financial goals, but should be very well supported as it will be time consuming and a tad lonely (maybe?).

I would think that newly explored systems of interest would be advertised on the bbs, miners will know where to go...

 

[Listeri69]

I would think that newly explored systems of interest would be advertised on the bbs, miners will know where to go...

I like to think a couple of things would happen maybe. I do a bit of exploring or prospecting really and find a nice juicy system full of gold, for the 1st few runs I make a nice profit. Now either a player or NPC notices this and in one of the proposals from the DDF they said cargo scanners would be possible, someone scans me notices I have a hold full of precious metal going into a station and rather little coming out of it, rather than attack and risk a bounty they follow my hyperspace find my system much like they did in the gold rushes all over the world before you know it you have a system full of NPC/Player miners.

You might get disgruntled over this you might have already moved on but that population is going to attract bigger attention. sensing a profit margin for selling equipment / food whatever is needed, someone builds maybe something small like a smugglers outpost or very basic star port in the system.

Suddenly the nearest star port notices there nice juicy gold supply has dried up sends out ships to investigate maybe a small struggle ensues the upshot being this becomes a system with a space station and maybe policing forces move in much like the wild west in the early 20th century. Eventually the resource is either mined out or depleted, this system could then just become pretty dead or with the right govt and attitude end up as a reasonably populated system. meanwhile the prospectors have moved on and the cycle repeats.

I see the BBS could be used if you wanted to try and flood the system maybe your working for the feds the system has imperial leanings so you post on the BBS or someone does LARGE GOLD SOURCE FOUND in (insert system name) causing the system to flood with ships looking for a quick buck.

I think the explorers role maybe lonely as you've said but I think it should and probably will end up being more than flying into a system going ooo ahhh a lot. you've either got to make a reason for other people to go there or all your really doing is filling your own map in, whilst useful i'm sure we'd all like to say see that system _________ I discovered that, im not saying they name it for you but you'll always have that pride that you found it 1st and whatever comes afterwards well imagine it becomes a high tech planet you'll still be smiling years later. I just hope when you enter a new system you can scan everything, you can either be quick maybe a scan see what planets are there very basic, or you can take maybe a few hours with a shorter range scanner and map the system down to the contents of the asteroids in asteroid field (if there is one)

One last point or statement really. It would be nice to explore with other people maybe if you got a few friends you could scan a system much faster share the whole data load between you, four friends 4x the speed. I would also like to be able to plant a flag or claim marker if someone steals your 1st prospect you can place bounties on them. Or you could claim a system for the Empire for example much like many countries did back in the day maybe even get paid by a faction to actually go and explore on the understanding you give them all information freely when you return.....

 

[breakpointUK]

Does an explorer want to turn into a miner/transporter? That means changing ship and then working your way back, which could be A: Dangerous, getting through systems with baddies in them and B: Very distracting from the Explorer Role... you could have an agreement with friends or alliance so you could share the information with them, rewards would have to be worked out manually.

...would it not be better to be rewarded just for the information from your faction so you can carry on exploring?

I would think that instead of you personally reporting information on a BBS, the faction would then send out an NPC survey team after sometime you could bonus reward (money/rep) for the available resources within that new system or on a specific planet. After some more time (and if the resources are good enough), they would then send out a small spaceport, which is built in modular fashion. At that point miners would be invited via bbs, then traders to supply goods.. The information would initially appear on the faction's bbs after some more time, the information would spread (could be the point of some corporation/military missions) and appear on rival factions bbs?

I agree with the naming stuff, I would like to see 'discovered by' under the system name, maybe your faction will actually name it?

As for co-op'ing with fellow players, I would like to see some kind of co-op missions for all roles.. although I wouldn't of thought it would make the first release!

 

[Arbanax]

Having never really played Elite before now, I'm intrigued to know how this worked in the original game. After all if you just go off and find stars, planets and other interesting bits - that might be fine to fill a map, but then what? It seems just travelling out in a straight direction to maps worlds needs something a bit more interesting. Not least of all because of being so alone, which presents challenges in terms of how you manage exploration to begin with.

But I'd also like to ask can you even contemplate being an explorer as a starting career given the financial outlay to make it work?

How far do you have to travel before you are truly exploring uncharted territory and assuming this is growing, how do beginner explorers explore? Can they start at the edge of known space.

And what missions exist if any beyond the rim?

As I say I'd be interested to know how this worked in the original game, as I guess to some degree it will be similar, although much evolved.

What does everyone else think?

Ab

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Having never really played Elite before now, I'm intrigued to know how this worked in the original game.

The original Elite was set in a cluster of space where all systems were inhabited and had well-established populations. There was no "exploration" as such.

Frontier and First Encounters, there was a gradual decay in population density from the core out towards the frontier. You could explore, though there was very little to do out there except sightsee (well, with a big enough ship, you could use the MB4 miners, but with a ship that big you weren't going to be exploring very far). There was also an extremely large zone of "explored previously" systems - much larger than the one they've said for Dangerous - which combined with the servicing requirements meant your ship would usually break down long before you were able to reach an actual unexplored system.

The Kickstarter had the option (at £70):
Explorer: Have the option to start on the edge of explored space with a long range version of the Cobra Mk III and 3,000 CR
so that's one way to get into it; more likely most people will do some other career in the populated systems for a while first, then buy the kit they need for decent exploration.

 

[Ian Phillips]

I don't know how it is going to work, but I am leaning more towards this as my starting option as time goes by. I'm sure that some repair technology is available (from one of the fiction diaries maybe?) as well as specially designed long range versions of ships such as the Eagle and Cobra Mk III.

I also think that there are going to be a lot of 'dark' systems around that are as yet undiscovered, even within the bubble of ‘known’ space. There was recently an announcement about the discovery of such a star system within 10 LY of Sol, so that demonstrates that we do not in any way know what is out there. A star, so close to us and we didn't know about it until last month?

I envisage that part of exploring is finding those star systems and by doing so opening up new or shorter trade routes. If there is a profitable trade run, but it takes 5 jumps to do it, and you can make the same run in 2 jumps, that has got to be worth something, surely? At the least you could just take advantage of it yourself! Also dark systems in the right places would be highly sought after by pirates and smugglers, I would think.

But, exploration has to have a point to it, otherwise the game economics won't be able to support the role. So basically it is information gathering, and that probably is going to mean prospecting and looking for habitable planets. I don’t know what else would be worth looking for? But any star system is going to have a huge amount of resources closer to the central systems. It will be a question of finding the richer deposits to sell the information on.

Another idea I have about it is that you would work in a co-op with some miners and maybe traders. Essentially set up your own prospecting and mining consortium.

 

[Out2lunch]

I read in the design notes somewhere that for explorers repair bots / systems will be available but due to the mass of these you loose a lot of your cargo space, which seems fair to me. As exploring all you need is food/water, tunes, decent scanner, fuel scoops, repair bots, and a decent laser in-case you meet some unfriendlies.

I myself will defo be scouting for new systems with interesting loot, I will also have a second ship for mining and transporting said loot for maximum profit. Unless selling info is a very lucrative profession.

 

[Arbanax]

I suppose that beyond exploring new systems that there maybe new minerals and or other rarities to be gleaned from this.

As yet I still am unsure as to what incentives there might be to exploration. There is a big outlay (ship, equipment, contingency gear) but beyond possible financial rewards for trade routes, or mining I wonder what else can be done. Especially if being in the known systems will generate missions, what missions exist for explorers at the edge of space or beyond.

For that reason I'd love to see new alien races, ok this is more hard SF, so alien species unlike Star Wars/Trek are not going to turn up, but that was the thrill of the five year mission behind the enterprise, to seek out new life and new civilizations etc. It remains to be seen at start of game, if you got a ship to explore what depth of interest exploration will actually yield. Hopefully we'll get to hear more as time goes on.

Ab

 

[TheBetpet]

I can only assume there would be elite points for discovering anomalies, wormholes, etc.

 

[cassius]

As for saving, i'm hoping there are chances to do this other than just at space stations. Maybe something like how mass-lock worked when jumping... if there are no other players around (and therefore no issues of people disappearing mid-fight etc) you can save when you like?

 

[Void Sun]

An assumption from me, on how exploring might work.

This is based on some comments over the kickstarter and since the official start of development on this forum.

Think of the rewards for exploring, either you find stuff you can bring back or find information you can sell. Think of the mechanics of thaose options.

Finding stuff, the further you go the more fuel, repair bots supplies you will need to carry, can't just get a bigger ship because jump range will dimish with mass. Therefore this will limit finds in far flun reaches to small valuable items.

Trading information, no weight so no barrier to you exploring further. But who may want to buy this information? These will mainly be resource based traders, Miners, traders for new system specific commodities. But they will only be interested in trading commodities where the transpotation costs don't outweigh the benefit of the new resource.

Both the above scenarios will effectively limit the profitable explorable zone to a finite zone around populated space. I assume the living universe model will then start to colonise these newly found systems, basic space stations and surface ports will be built. This expansion will then extend the populated area of space extending the profitable explorable region around the new systems.

I doubt there will be anything to stop you from exploring further for sightseeing reasons except for the limits of your ship deterioration, your supplies and your fuel scooping skills.

There have been discussions around save locations and during the kickstarter planetary orbits were mooted by those in the discussion. We will find out more next week as we are due to start to discuss the Explorer role in the DDF later this week.

 

[azdour]

I agree with everything discussed so far. I'm probably going to be an explorer if the mechanics fit my play style, e.g. I have not as much time as I would like to play it

Thinking about explorer in general, they tend to go off to explore and often they are away from civilisation for months even years, so there needs to be a balance here especially when it comes down to money. You have the cost of fuel and possibly the cost of repairs.

Do you have lots of things to find when you explore but the reward for each one is low, or do you have very few things to find and the reward is high.

I think there should be a balance between the time spent exploring (as well as how much it costs in credit) and the rewards. Then again you could end up finding nothing or discovering some else beat you to it...

 

[Listeri69]

We will find out more next week as we are due to start to discuss the Explorer role in the DDF later this week.

Some times I wish we had access to the DDF not to post anything just to read..... I know they put stuff in the archive but It would be nice just to be able to read the proposals as they go live..............

 

[Arbanax]

Some times I wish we had access to the DDF not to post anything just to read..... I know they put stuff in the archive but It would be nice just to be able to read the proposals as they go live..............

Oh I so agree with you. I had toyed with the idea of upping my pledge to get in, but am not sure I can afford to. I do appreciate that we can review the discussion, but it is after the fact. Just have to be patient I guess.

Ab