General Settlements and Powerplay: we need a change of perspective.

[Bard Voronwe]

Ahoy!

First of all: this thread do NOT want to talk about the data-mining bug-exploit which is affecting basically all the different Powers, personally I hope this is gonna be fixed sooner than later and that massive abusers (many of us tried the bug to see if that was really true but I'm sure most of us didn't use that for aggressive purposes) will be at least shadow-banned for some weeks and stripped of their merits.

Premises aside.

What I would like to talk about is how the mechanics behind raiding settlements in Powerplay are currently all wrong and unbalanced considered the design of Powerplay as a whole and propose some countermeasures to make Settlement Raids matter more and make them less unbalanced tactically speaking.

FIRST ISSUE: settlement raids give just a handful of merits considering how time spending they are, the needed preparation to do them and the fact that you will be granted a minor bounty but some points of notoriety. To solve this I think that ALL data and ALL items stolen from a settlement should grant merits, making them actually worth to be raid. Another cool thing should b even more merits are granted by shutting down the settlement.

THE OPPOSITE ISSUE: right now settlement raids are one of the few (or maybe even the only) activity that could be exploited to do a snipe.
I think that this new Powerplay has been designed to make snipes almost impossible to do, sniping is a pretty unfair tactic considering time zones, and some groups might be advantaged by it. Thn, about data and items, you can store HUNDREDS of them and deliver those just before the thursday morning tick.
The easy solution would be to give merits to the players the very moment they steal any data and item from a settlement (for the first time, we do not wantpeople to abuse that) and make the Powerplay custom data and items very precious when sold to bartenders.

So basically it's: give more merits, a little bit for any non-powerplay data and items, much more for Powerplay dedicated data and items, but give those merits in real time as any other action in game.
(And fix that damned bug please.)

Opinions?

 

[shevek]

How many merits are we taking about if you collect call the power goods from the containers download all the power data and upload all the malware and roughly how long would that take?

 

[Bard Voronwe]

How many merits are we taking about if you collect call the power goods from the containers download all the power data and upload all the malware and roughly how long would that take?

You mean right now or by extending the merits gaining to other data and items? Because the first is you should get around 600-700 merits for raiding a settlement right now, I guess there's people much faster than I doing everything right but I think nobody can do it right in less than 10-15 minutes (by doing it right I mean with a stealthy approach to stop the settlement alarms as a first priority) considering the travel too.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

How many merits are we taking about if you collect call the power goods from the containers download all the power data and upload all the malware and roughly how long would that take?

Depends on the settlement size and type, of course.

But let's say a settlement with four data ports and two powerplay containers - a fairly average size:
- four data ports = 50 merits each for the uploads and about the same each for the pair of downloads, so 400 merits (and about two minutes hanging around each port)
- two containers = probably about 5 powerplay items between them, so about 125 merits (very quick)
That's not counting the time to clear opposition (active bases) or get the power plant up (and your regulator back at the end?) for inactive bases so let's say that adds on five minutes (and travel time too, of course).

So I'd generally agree with Bard's estimate of 600-700 merits per base, four to five bases an hour. That's about 3k merits per hour, which is comparable with salvage-and-kills as "about as good as it gets for undermining anything which isn't a Stronghold Carrier or otherwise a very system-specific opportunity" ... but of course quite a bit slower than rares for Fortification purposes.

(It probably should come out somewhat faster than rares, given that it requires a fair bit more skill and practice than running a trade loop - as well as maybe being a bit more system specific as to whether they have Odyssey settlements worth raiding)

(for the first time, we do not wantpeople to abuse that)

I do wonder how difficult it would be to avoid exploits where people pick up and drop a PP commodity (perhaps with a friend) if they were scored on collection rather than on hand-in. Most of the other things scored on collection are things that can't be "dropped".

 

[shevek]

You mean right now or by extending the merits gaining to other data and items? Because the first is you should get around 600-700 merits for raiding a settlement right now, I guess there's people much faster than I doing everything right but I think nobody can do it right in less than 10-15 minutes (by doing it right I mean with a stealthy approach to stop the settlement alarms as a first priority) considering the travel too.

Thanks for the info, it sounds a tad low for the amount of work, maybe they could add 5 merits for scanning the people in the base like they do for ships.

Scanning would be easy for the people outside, but you’d have to make the effort to get into the base to get them all scanned.

 

[shevek]

Maybe you could get extra merits for using the profile scanner to check if they are sleeper agents for another power which you can then take out for even more merits.

I would love to get some payback on the guards that keeps stopping me for a scan

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Depends on the settlement size and type, of course.

But let's say a settlement with four data ports and two powerplay containers - a fairly average size:
- four data ports = 50 merits each for the uploads and about the same each for the pair of downloads, so 400 merits (and about two minutes hanging around each port)
- two containers = probably about 5 powerplay items between them, so about 125 merits (very quick)
That's not counting the time to clear opposition (active bases) or get the power plant up (and your regulator back at the end?) for inactive bases so let's say that adds on five minutes (and travel time too, of course).

So I'd generally agree with Bard's estimate of 600-700 merits per base, four to five bases an hour. That's about 3k merits per hour, which is comparable with salvage-and-kills as "about as good as it gets for undermining anything which isn't a Stronghold Carrier or otherwise a very system-specific opportunity" ... but of course quite a bit slower than rares for Fortification purposes.

(It probably should come out somewhat faster than rares, given that it requires a fair bit more skill and practice than running a trade loop - as well as maybe being a bit more system specific as to whether they have Odyssey settlements worth raiding)


I do wonder how difficult it would be to avoid exploits where people pick up and drop a PP commodity (perhaps with a friend) if they were scored on collection rather than on hand-in. Most of the other things scored on collection are things that can't be "dropped".

Don't forget the time you lose actually moving between settlements. Doing that many settlements in one hour sounds optimistic to me. But most important thing is that merits should be granted in real time. With a fat credit bonus when they are delivered to the Power Contact of course.

 

[Mecrutio]

Ya I agree that settlement raids deserve more than what is current. I wanted to see what crimes we get merits for so I used a settlement as a test and went thru the complete on-foot codex description for "Crimes and Punishment". I'm average I think, definitely tried the ninja way (which lasted 5 mins lol!) then it ended up being me killing the entire settlement and filling up the base Mav. suit with goddies and downloads. It took around an hour, 120 merits. (before turning in PP stuff) According to Ian Downcaster and Bard Voronwe above, lets say 700 average for a settlement and its size + crimes were lookin at 820 using my times. I can't see doing 3 settlements an hour.. so lets say (for science) the median of 1910 merits an hour for settlement raids. IMO, thats about what I could do including the travel time. (leave, raid one, return)

1910 base, now add 5 merits per person scanned, average 25 ppl in a settlement (rough guestimate) that's 125 merits for 2035 merits. Lets also add 2 sleeper faction agents being worth x for finding and y for assassination. 25 for finding and 100 for assassination. (using values I've seen killing other powers ships) Now we're at 2285 merits.

The only crimes that count for merits are "scanning opposition stronghold carrier cargo hold" and "murder". It would help jump that merit earned total if all crimes earned merits as described in the codex.

Currently, (I'm talking 2hrs ago) I spent 2 hours running around getting rare items. An unorganized trip with 9 different items that netted 11,000 merits. Relative to my above example, (at 2hrs thats 4570 merits) its un achievable to counter transporting with settlement raids. Even in a 1v1 situation where one person is content with transporting items, not being hunted, and the other transporting and doing settlement raids.

Game balance is off and the truly unfortunate thing of it all is that the most lucrative merit earner is doing PP 1.0 transport. Yes, the items are rare for the in game RP, but it is forcing all players to perform transport. (or other methods for the dastardly) It should also be mentioned that all other activities to earn merits stack up the same when compared to transporting rare items. I don't know what happened to the "sell goods for over 40% profit" but I could not earn merits for it in Unoccupied/Fortified/Stronghold systems as well as sourcing inside/outside spheres of influence. I wanted to do that for a couple of hours as it seemed like a different way to counter selling of rare items in earning merits. Collect bounties, scan data links, transport certain items, kill power ships, commit crime, transport power commodities and the others all fall short around the same amount as settlement raids. I have pages of notes reflecting such.

But wait THERES MORE! lol!

I come with an idea to help. "Logistics wins wars"

1 - Remove the selling of rares for merits. If I'm correct, the merits earned for selling rare items is dependent on the profit made. That is like the sell for over 40% profit mechanic.

2 - Ensure that the "selling of commodities for over 40% profit" mechanic will perform as designed.

3 - the "selling for 40% profit" mechanic apply only to one system state (aquiring, forted, stronghold)

4 - Re balance the merits earned for x activities to equal the y activities.

I could do all the calculations for a realistic view on where to start, but I'm much more valuable than some simple arithmetic. I can be rough, but I'm accurate, accountable and honest. (no realii i need a different job)

I hope this description was neutral, elite is more than just a game to me and many others. I see another decade for elite dangerous (no prob) and I just want to help get her there.

 

[mm3368]

Ahoy!

First of all: this thread do NOT want to talk about the data-mining bug-exploit which is affecting basically all the different Powers, personally I hope this is gonna be fixed sooner than later and that massive abusers (many of us tried the bug to see if that was really true but I'm sure most of us didn't use that for aggressive purposes) will be at least shadow-banned for some weeks and stripped of their merits.

Premises aside.

What I would like to talk about is how the mechanics behind raiding settlements in Powerplay are currently all wrong and unbalanced considered the design of Powerplay as a whole and propose some countermeasures to make Settlement Raids matter more and make them less unbalanced tactically speaking.

FIRST ISSUE: settlement raids give just a handful of merits considering how time spending they are, the needed preparation to do them and the fact that you will be granted a minor bounty but some points of notoriety. To solve this I think that ALL data and ALL items stolen from a settlement should grant merits, making them actually worth to be raid. Another cool thing should b even more merits are granted by shutting down the settlement.

THE OPPOSITE ISSUE: right now settlement raids are one of the few (or maybe even the only) activity that could be exploited to do a snipe.
I think that this new Powerplay has been designed to make snipes almost impossible to do, sniping is a pretty unfair tactic considering time zones, and some groups might be advantaged by it. Thn, about data and items, you can store HUNDREDS of them and deliver those just before the thursday morning tick.
The easy solution would be to give merits to the players the very moment they steal any data and item from a settlement (for the first time, we do not wantpeople to abuse that) and make the Powerplay custom data and items very precious when sold to bartenders.

So basically it's: give more merits, a little bit for any non-powerplay data and items, much more for Powerplay dedicated data and items, but give those merits in real time as any other action in game.
(And fix that damned bug please.)

Opinions?

Hi, so I now came the time that people use this exploid and deliver hundreds of thousand control points right before the tick happens now the last 2 ticks and all the time 10 or more system got lost since exploided falls to unoccupied if all the supporting systems are gone. It is really not balanced one player can store 288k merits and with power goods you can max out only 4.5k there is no way to counter this. So yes they need to give merits right away, since they block storing power goods on a fleet carrier, but you can have 1000 pieces of data .