Sharing Some SCB Testing

[Camisade]

File this under: Engineering, SCBs ...usage without using a heat sink and without taking damage. This is just some information for those who've not yet become experts at the differences in experimentals that Lori Jameson (and, to a less extent, Elvira Martuuk) can apply for you, and how they can help you optimize a build.

Tl;dr summary: Use of G3 Specialized Cell with the Boss Cells experimental can enable many ships to use SCBs without a heat sink and without taking damage.

Long version:

I've recently begun trending away from using SCBs (especially in PvP builds). Because much of my usage, aside from the odd CZ or HazRES, was in the early days of my PvP pursuit, I always trended toward using G3 Rapid Charge to lessen the time available for someone to cancel my SCBs. And so I always used a heat sink to avoid damage to my ship.

The other day, I noticed a friend's AX Corvette build used SCBs, but not heat sinks. And he was using G3 Rapid Charge. "Ouch," I thought to myself, because I had the strong sense that RC's shortened spin up time and cell discharge, resulted in extra heat (or similar heat, but spread out across a shorter time, resulting in a higher spike). "Rapid Charge SCBs without a heat sink -- you maniac!"

Turns out he found the heat spike short enough and the damage negligible enough that he didn't want to give up a utility slot that could be better used for a shield booster.

But me? I take enough damage from the players and NPCs (human and Thargoid!) that I fight. So I'm loathe to damage my own ship to help them out! So I went looking for damage to see if I could have my cake and eat it, too.

I did some testing of our theory crafting. Here're my results.

First the reference temps: My Corvette's resting heat: 27%. Heat while perma-boosting: 41%. Heat while idle but charging broken shields: 40%. Heat while idle but charging low shields: 35%. Heat while boosting AND charging low shields: 45%.

In the below table, "resting" means idle while charging low shields:

Stock SCB heat spike (max temp reached) from resting: 130%
Stock SCB heat spike from boosting temp: 147%
G3 Rapid Charge w/Recycling Cell heat spike from resting: 143%
G3 Rapid Charge w/Recycling Cell heat spike from boosting temp: 153%
G3 Specialized w/Recycling Cell heat spike from resting: 106%
G3 Specialized w/Recycling Cell heat spike from boosting temp: 128%
G3 Specialized w/Boss Cell heat spike from resting: 97%
G3 Specialized w/Boss Cell heat spike from boosting temp: 109%

My findings and suggestion: In an environment where (1) SCB interruption is not a significant risk, and (2) you do not want to use heat sinks, and (3) you can afford the extra power that the G3 Specialized Cell mod levies, you get (1) More MJ and (2) generate less heat (and damage) by using G3 Specialized Cell with the Boss Cell experimental.

Detail: Under the recycling cell spike to 106%, some modules took 1% damage per SCB charge. Under rapid charge, even while idle, the spike to 143% (and, under boost, to 153%) caused modules 2-4% damage per SCB charge. That adds up!

The biggest surprise to me was that, if you're not worried about SCB cancelation, Boss Cells give you more MJ and less heat than Recycling Cells...that was something I did not expect.

My squadron mate, Mori4rte, took my analysis and ran a little further. His additional observations from looking at Corvette SCB numbers:
You get 932 MJ extra with 2x 7A G3 Specialized Cells, while drawing 1.16 MW more power compared to G3 Rapid Charge. For reference, one A-rated G5 heavy duty shield booster draws 1.50 MW and nets you 904 MJ. Conclusion: going Specialized is a good deal energy-wise, bar all other considerations.

Hope someone finds this interesting (or at least, valuable).

o7 CMDRs.

 

[DNA-Decay]

Specialised Cell with Boss Cell experimental. Gotcha.

Thanks.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Size of SCB can make a big difference too - a while ago I had a Python with a 6A and a 5A, specialised G1 (this was before SCB experimentals existed). I had a heat sink for firing the 6A (and it needed it!) but could use the 5A without quite going over 100%. Nowadays on that build I'd just engineer the power plant high enough to power both SCBs at once, and double-bank ... but this was in the early days of engineers.

On a ship with lots of varied-size internals, a bunch of slightly smaller SCBs could get you a lot more total MJ if you're willing to mess around with turning them on and off (since specialised also decreases boot time, of course...)

(And if you need another 6% heat reduction, Mel Brandon has the G4 blueprints too. Unfortunately, there's no such thing as a G5 SCB - he checked)

 

[Hossi]

Good to know that I made the right choice instinctivly.

Specialized/Boss-Cells have been my standard SCB mod for ages, even though I never tested them in detail.
But all my PvE warships can fire SCBs without heat sink, as long as I hold fire and go FA-Off throttle-zero. I normaly end up at around 98% heat with an armoured powerplant.
Never tested a G4 though. Is it worth the travel?

 

[Wildcard]

Basically SCB Specialized w/ Boss Cell is the better choice did anyone not know this?

You can easily goto https://coriolis.io/
Build your ship out or use EDmarketconnector which will do it for you opening this website with all of your ship specs and from there you can see the sheet data from Rapid vs Specialized. Specialized is the Clear winner where Rapid is the obvious looser for the only reason that if you are using rapid your not being mindful or watching your shields.

Further more, Beams with Thermal Vent offer even more Heat Dissipation without getting into OverCharged vs Efficient as both have strengths vs weaknesses compared to SCB where there is again no contest as to which is the winner. The only comparison to be made is Less Quicker or More with a 3second difference. Kind of a no brainer. What Fdev needs to do with these is Massively buff Rapid by a extreme margin reducing the duration while maintaining the shield restoration to make it comparable to Specialised. so Rapid Spin 3s thats fine but the duration needs to be reduced to 4-6seconds while maintaining the 597Mj or even better to make it 670+

If you are to compare SCB's:

Class 7A
Rapid w/ Recycling; 3s Spin, 9.2s duration 597.6 MJ 5Cells = 2,988MJT
Rapid w/ Boss; 3.6s Spin 8.4s duration 600.4MJ 5Cells = 3,002MJT
Specialized w. Recyc 5 Spin 12.1 Duration 720Mj 5Cells = 3,604MJT
Specialized w/ boss 6s Spin, 11s Duration 724 Mj 5Cells = 3,621MJT

Again this is sheet all data is from coriolis.io

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Never tested a G4 though. Is it worth the travel?

Probably not unless you have a very specialised build, but if you're ever in the area anyway, you might as well pin it. When it comes down to it, you don't need maximum optimisation for PvE. (Rapid for PvP, it seems enough people think G4 is worth it to make it the region's fastest-researched blueprint for the last few weeks)

Class 7A
Rapid w/ Recycling; 3s Spin, 9.2s duration 597.6 MJ 5Cells = 2,988MJT
Rapid w/ Boss; 3.6s Spin 8.4s duration 600.4MJ 5Cells = 3,002MJT
Specialized w. Recyc 5 Spin 12.1 Duration 720Mj 5Cells = 3,604MJT
Specialized w/ boss 6s Spin, 11s Duration 724 Mj 5Cells = 3,621MJT

The point of Rapid is not raw MJ gain but as a counter to the Feedback Cascade special on railguns. Comparing Rapid+Recycling with Specialised+Boss you get 50% reduction in spin-up time, so if your opponent has feedback cascade and good aim, there's a good chance with Specialised you lose 90% of that recharge to the cascade effect - whereas with Rapid you might not lose any. That's the sort of thing that doesn't show up in a paper exercise on Coriolis - but means that Rapid doesn't need any more raw MJ adding to it.

In other words, Rapid for PvP, Specialised for PvE.

 

[Camisade]

Basically SCB Specialized w/ Boss Cell is the better choice did anyone not know this?

Because it's not necessarily true, nor was it the point of the OP at all? There are many scenarios where those are not the best choice, or even a viable choice, perhaps even for some finely tuned PvE ships. But that wasn't the point of the OP really.

You can easily goto https://coriolis.io/
...[some good information clipped because...well, as you mentioned, it was all already available in Coriolis]...
Again this is sheet all data is from coriolis.io

I'll take the blame for not making it clear enough for you (and probably others), because the point I was trying to make (apparently unsuccessfully -- my bad!) was that there are ship builds (which do not necessarily rely on beams with thermal vent) which can use some SCB engineering choices (and flight/fight situational opportunities) without heat sinks, under SOME conditions, without taking damage -- information which is not at all communicated via Coriolis.

Again, my bad for not making my point more obvious -- nor putting a strong enough disclaimer at the front of the post to prevent people like you, who already knew everything about SCBs, from wasting their time. Sorry 'bout that!

In other words, Rapid for PvP, Specialised for PvE.

Generally, yes, but with an understanding that even the choice of experimentals should be made with an eye toward the tactical situations you're likely to be in (admittedly, more important for PvP than PvE's much more forgiving environment). But even the choice of experimental addition opens up (or creates requirements) on supporting modules, if you don't want to take heat damage.

Really, more than anything else, the OP was supposed to create awareness on a pilot's ability to make outfitting and flying/fighting choices that reduced or eliminated the need for heat sinks under some SCB deployment situations -- something I thought most people (especially newer players) might not realize. Could be I was wrong.

The other reason I posted this was because some of this "old" information ended up getting lost in the unfortunate migration to these new message boards. Not ALL historical threads were migrated to the new boards. So some good "old" information was lost. That makes rehashing some of this stuff worthwhile, IMO, especially for newer members of the community.