Shield Booster should generate a LOT more heat!!!

[CMDR GTR2014]

So at this point Shield booster stacking is an issue for Elite dangerous , I mean seriously there are people having 6-8 shield booster rendering their ships (almost) immune to damage. And being able to fire back at no expense... those ships are really bad for the game IMO, there is no penalty for running a F. ton of shield boosters.

I think if you are pushing the boundaries of you shields... those booster should come with a expense of much more heat, I mean if you can have 5 of those to create a 100% increase in your shielding. They should have at least 300% more heat than a normal shield. it should be done in a way that a ship filled with G5 heavy duty boosters should be almost if not cooking itself.

So in essence Devs should put a limit in the amount of shield boosting via heat. no need for diminishing returns and thing like that. those things will only introduce more stacking.

By giving the player a hard choice of cooking his ship. this comes full circle, like people should not run a ship with all rails because this is an effective way of creating a Baked CMDR... they should be the same for Shield boosting.

Lets say you can get your shields to +250% and this will make your ship run at 75-80% temperature. hitting 300% 95%, hitting 400% 110% heat.

This makes clear that you are pushing your ship to it's limits. defensive builds can still work , as you don't need to fire weapons. and you will probably suffer a little damage from FSD charge... but it's minimal.. and the extra slots can accommodate some sinks...

this effectively will reduce TTK, and some uber ships we all see every day in the game reining above everything.

OF COURSE THIS IDEA WILL RECEIVE FLAK.

This idea is basically making those "God" CMDRs who reing absolute on their majestic BIG3s doing idle haz res all day... farming kills, rank and glory... I heard stories of a guy that put 50 Tones of platinum aboard the ship placed an all turreted laser setup and let the ship idle on a haz res... gonne for launch and the ship was still with 50% shields when he came back... and a 2M credits bounty claim... So I see it's hard to lose some habits...


But the game urgently needs this to be assessed. Because once you get to the Large ship PAD... mostly every single ship in the game is just a cake walk... even against Elite NPCs...


And PvP also is problematic cause of shield boosting... duels can take half an hour... even more...ships are on the +4000 MJ shields + Banks....

I find this to be a good solution since you can still use the shield for protection. you will be really hot... but nothing your ship cant handle...

But if you go for a g5 overcharged PP + g5 dirty drives + plasmas + rails + beams + a ton of shield boosters... this should not work anymore on this setup... cause everything would fry you up. making it a very demanding setup...

 

[Nero Tacitus]

While I try not to shoot down ideas, I thinks there's an exorbitant amount of hyperbole going on here.

"No drawback"? Heavy Duty more than quadrouple the weight, increase the power draw by 25-35%, and stacking them precludes other utilities (chaff, heatsinks, point def etc).

4K shields? There's only one ship in the game that can hit that, and it's hardly the go-to combat ship. In fact, it's a flying brick that's only good for ferrying bask from end of the galaxy to the other.

g5 overcharged PP + g5 dirty drives alone = severe heat issues on most ships in the game. I have no idea what kind of ship could run this config and beams, let alone railguns.

You also haven't mentioned the fact that there are weapons designed exclusively to wreck shields, regardless of their size. If you're serious about PvP, and don't mount torpedoes or feedback rails, then struggling with shields is your doing.

I run 6 SBs on my 'Vette and, combined, they increase my effective shielding by <20%. That's hardly out of control.

I agree that stacking them is simply prolonging PvP engagements, but I also think heat is already enough of an obnoxious novelty mechanic without arbitrarily applying it to things in order to balance them. It's also becoming obvious that FDev want to address ganking before balancing PvP (pilot's fed bounty), and nerfing shields is certainly counterproductive to preventing ganking. I personally liked the idea of diminishing returns, I thought it was a great idea. Apparently I was alone, since the idea was scrapped during beta after the community had a conniption. Damned if you do, damned if you don't apparently.

As for the idle story, I ran into an Elite Anaconda wing in a HAZ the other day while flying a fully engineered 'Vette. It took 6 SCBs, 3 heat sinks, 4 fighters and over half my ammunition to bring it down. While not exactly commonplace, that's the kind of wings you can run into in a HAZ. They went 30-60 mins without running into a single one of the dozen or so wing configs that could destroy any of the big 3? Vid pls.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

While I try not to shoot down ideas, I thinks there's an exorbitant amount of hyperbole going on here.

Flak Number 1 : "I run 6 SBs on my 'Vette and, combined, they increase my effective shielding by <20%. That's hardly out of control."

And really.... mass is draw back? 35% extra power ?! That's cute.... keep on rolling your god ship doc.

 

[StiTch]

I'll agree there's a healthy amount of hyperbole going on but as it is a real issue, and this is actually not a bad idea, I'm behind ya.

Shield boosters continually outputting a certain level of heat is a really good idea provided you don't shaft smaller ships for daring to fit 2/3.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

I'll agree there's a healthy amount of hyperbole going on but as it is a real issue, and this is actually not a bad idea, I'm behind ya.

Shield boosters continually outputting a certain level of heat is a really good idea provided you don't shaft smaller ships for daring to fit 2/3.

Yes.. The idea is that small ships would not suffer so much... they don't have 4 or more uti mounts... and the ships that have are also ships that people like to "shield tank" the Courier and the Vulture.

And they follow the same principle... they will run hotter... but not insane hot... 4 shield booster will hardly go over 200% so it will go on the 70% heat... nothing that can really make a ship cripple in combat.

 

[StiTch]

Yes.. The idea is that small ships would not suffer so much... they don't have 4 or more uti mounts... and the ships that have are also ships that people like to "shield tank" the Courier and the Vulture.

And they follow the same principle... they will run hotter... but not insane hot... 4 shield booster will hardly go over 200% so it will go on the 70% heat... nothing that can really make a ship cripple in combat.

Yeah, it's really good as a pure and simple offset, such as overcharging a PP at the cost of heat efficiency - more boosters, bit more heat to deal with, rather than insta-burning a ship when it equips 5 or more.

The implications would be quite interesting though, and would givea little more encouragement to shieldless builds, that would absolutely have the coolest running.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Just a large increase in power consumption would do the trick.

 

[StiTch]

Just a large increase in power consumption would do the trick.

And ruin every small ship that wants to equip a single one, let alone more?

We're supposed to find a solution that stops grossly exaggerated stacking while impacting vessels that don't stack as little as possible, not the other way around

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

And ruin every small ship that wants to equip a single one, let alone more?

We're supposed to find a solution that stops grossly exaggerated stacking while impacting vessels that don't stack as little as possible, not the other way around

Agreed. I think the best way to make it work is that Shield boosters do not work on a percentage scale but are a fixed number and any engineering would just increase that fixed number.

The issue with percentages is that each addition gets better then the last which doesn't make much sense.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Yes.. The idea is that small ships would not suffer so much... they don't have 4 or more uti mounts... and the ships that have are also ships that people like to "shield tank" the Courier and the Vulture.

And they follow the same principle... they will run hotter... but not insane hot... 4 shield booster will hardly go over 200% so it will go on the 70% heat... nothing that can really make a ship cripple in combat.

Don't small ships have significantly smaller heat dissipation capabilities? The exception being the DBX and DBS of course.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

What about a diminishing returns thingie in the base increase?

The more you stack, the worse they get?
Or the more you stack, the more power they require to reach that +20%.

No idea on the numbers.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

What about a diminishing returns thingie in the base increase?

The more you stack, the worse they get?
Or the more you stack, the more power they require to reach that +20%.

No idea on the numbers.

Sounds good

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

What about a diminishing returns thingie in the base increase?

The more you stack, the worse they get?
Or the more you stack, the more power they require to reach that +20%.

No idea on the numbers.

FDev tried that, but a load of people complained because they thought they couldn't sit in a Combat zone with all turrets on fire at will and gain credits without risk while they ate dinner or watched TV.

People will complain no matter what FDev do with them.

 

[MBaldelli]

FDev tried that, but a load of people complained because they thought they couldn't sit in a Combat zone with all turrets on fire at will and gain credits without risk while they ate dinner or watched TV.

People will complain no matter what FDev do with them.

Indeed... That's sometimes the demon that's given birth to if they give in to the complaints. Perfect Worlds has been able to use Diminishing Returns on stacked consoles and complain as they want, it's ignored.

 

[AbsinthSvK]

Shields was already nerfed, not long time ago. Long fights are fun.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

Shields was already nerfed, not long time ago. Long fights are fun.

In what planet are you from? if not shields only got buffed in the last patches... increased regen. AND instashield at reboot was the last ones...

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

What about a diminishing returns thingie in the base increase?

The more you stack, the worse they get?
Or the more you stack, the more power they require to reach that +20%.

No idea on the numbers.

Diminishing returns are bad for the game in the end. why? Because nobody really understands what the hell is going on. just look at the mess resist are right now, nobody ever know exactly how much your ship will have until you actually fit everything.

On the conter hand. Heat is the optimal way to punish big shields. Why? Couple of reasons.

-More heat means that you have less DPS overall.
-More heat means that gigantic SCB will be very very hot... making it a maybe 2 sinks.
-You can push your ship into the danger zone if you want max protection, but at a penalty of taking a few damage for boosting and jumping. ( so traders can have protection! and Super hyper Maxedout big 3 ships will not be able to go crazy on CZ forever.)
-Heat damage is nasty. and the thermal cascade exploit showed us that it's the best way to kill a gigantic shielded ship.


So you need to fine tune your ship. you can have BIG shields. but you need to have compromises. you can not have super weapons and super shields. you have to balance it well. this adds for gameplay, strategy , and of course fun for everyone on battle.


*extra detail. by not making diminish returns but heat. this means that ships like traders can have big shields and ships that are attacker wont have as big shields. so in order to have DPS you need to give shield.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

Don't small ships have significantly smaller heat dissipation capabilities? The exception being the DBX and DBS of course.

Most small ships are pretty cold, Cobras and DBS are the most cool ships in game. (but they are also the ones with less shield)
and i doubt any of the couriers and Vultures and DB ships will have trouble using 2 or 3 boosters... 4 might be a stretch ...

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

Agreed. I think the best way to make it work is that Shield boosters do not work on a percentage scale but are a fixed number and any engineering would just increase that fixed number.

The issue with percentages is that each addition gets better then the last which doesn't make much sense.

Well this makes a ton on sense. HRP are fixed value , MRP are fixed value, SCB are fixed value.

Why on earth only boosters are % values?!

This got even worse if you think that it also gets buffed if you got for a reinforced shields. so it's buffed from another buff over it self buff... Buffception.

Anaconda:

case 1:
a rated base shield + all A rated boosters

595 + 952(160%) = 1547 MJ

case 2:
a rated base shield + all g5 reinforced A rated boosters

595 + 2665 (448%) = 3260 MJ

case 3:
Reinforced G5 a rated base shield + all g5 reinforced A rated boosters

774 + 3467 (448%) = 4241 MJ


Diference between 2 and 3:

Base shields : 179 MJ

Extra boosting because of
base shield extra power: 802 MJ

The most dangerous weapon a Developer can put in their game is called %
each new % on the calc makes it more insane powerfull.

One single Shield booster on the case 3 is equal to 72% of the original shield of the case 1... this is NUTS.

774 * 0,56 = 434
434 / 595 = 0,72

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Well this makes a ton on sense. HRP are fixed value , MRP are fixed value, SCB are fixed value.

Why on earth only boosters are % values?!

This got even worse if you think that it also gets buffed if you got for a reinforced shields. so it's buffed from another buff over it self buff... Buffception.

Anaconda:

case 1:
a rated base shield + all A rated boosters

595 + 952(160%) = 1547 MJ

case 2:
a rated base shield + all g5 reinforced A rated boosters

595 + 2665 (448%) = 3260 MJ

case 3:
Reinforced G5 a rated base shield + all g5 reinforced A rated boosters

774 + 3467 (448%) = 4241 MJ


Diference between 2 and 3:

Base shields : 179 MJ

Extra boosting because of
base shield extra power: 802 MJ

The most dangerous weapon a Developer can put in their game is called %
each new % on the calc makes it more insane powerfull.

One single Shield booster on the case 3 is equal to 72% of the original shield of the case 1... this is NUTS.

774 * 0,56 = 434
434 / 595 = 0,72

It's also the fact the an A class grade 5 mod shield booster gives a bigger boost to a FDL shields then a sidewinder shields even though they are exactly the same. It makes little sense to me. Why should a ship which already has great shields get an even better boost then someone with a smaller shield when the booster is identical.