Ship Balance - why do you care?

[JohnRoberts]

OK, there's other threads going on about specific balance issues. I didn't want to go off-topic on those threads, so please don't bring specific balances issues here. I'd like to discuss why (real or percieved) ship balance issues is such an important topic for so many people.

Here's my perspective. I'm a PVE Role Player, who general plays in Open. I pick my ships for their character, and not so much their characteristics. If anything in this game feels like "home" to me, its the Asp Explorer. The Corvette is a close second. I limit myself to 3 ships, and currently the third ship is the Chieftain, because it seems it will fit my cmdr's purpose at the moment. I doubt I would switch to anything else even if the first two ships were relatively the worst ships in the game. It matters not one jot to me that someone else may have got a ship superior in every way to anything I have. There is no globally finite supply of enjoyment. So, I don't really care that much about balance. Perhaps to the extent that it challenges willing suspension of disbelief in the fiction of the galaxy, but Elite is hardly a paragon in that regard anyway.

But that's just me (and maybe when it comes to Elite, I've take a road less traveled). So my question is, why do you want ship balance in this game. What difference would it make to you?

This is an honest question, wanting honest answers. There is no right or wrong. I just want to understand why it's such an issue.

 

[ilo]

In the case of the thread you commented, the 'balance' is the excuse used to ask for a corvette buff, comparing the jump range of an exploration anaconda with the jump of a combat-ready corvette. Then there is all the argument range from 'fun', 'gameplay', going through 'not affecting others' and 'convenience' to the most strict 'base stats' comparison.

Usually people bringing 'balance' to the table is thinking about min-maxing. For me balance is having options.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Usually people bringing 'balance' to the table is thinking about min-maxing. For me balance is having options.

Firstly, I'm happy with 19Ly on my Corvette. I'm not asking for anything.

How does balance give your more options? Do you really mean "more options I consider viable"? Is an unbalanced ship simply never an option for you? Why? Isn't this just some kind on min-maxing by another name?

(Again, these are questions asked honestly).

 

[Valorin]

OK, there's other threads going on about specific balance issues. I didn't want to go off-topic on those threads, so please don't bring specific balances issues here. I'd like to discuss why (real or percieved) ship balance issues is such an important topic for so many people.

Here's my perspective. I'm a PVE Role Player, who general plays in Open. I pick my ships for their character, and not so much their characteristics. If anything in this game feels like "home" to me, its the Asp Explorer. The Corvette is a close second. I limit myself to 3 ships, and currently the third ship is the Chieftain, because it seems it will fit my cmdr's purpose at the moment. I doubt I would switch to anything else even if the first two ships were relatively the worst ships in the game. It matters not one jot to me that someone else may have got a ship superior in every way to anything I have. There is no globally finite supply of enjoyment. So, I don't really care that much about balance. Perhaps to the extent that it challenges willing suspension of disbelief in the fiction of the galaxy, but Elite is hardly a paragon in that regard anyway.

But that's just me (and maybe when it comes to Elite, I've take a road less traveled). So my question is, why do you want ship balance in this game. What difference would it make to you?

This is an honest question, wanting honest answers. There is no right or wrong. I just want to understand why it's such an issue.

I play the game pretty much like you do myself, except for the three ship restriction perhaps, but I really don't care much about balance. Yeah, it's nice to have different ships for different roles and all, but I fly what feels good anyway in the end. Like I prefer my T10 to my Conda at the moment. I just like that beast.
I can imagine balancing being a thing in PvP because competition and all, but apart from that I really don't understand all the discussions.
Also my home is where my Asp is as well. I do almost everything with it, apart from cargo hauling and passenger stuff.

 

[ilo]

Firstly, I'm happy with 19Ly on my Corvette. I'm not asking for anything.

How does balance give your more options? Do you really mean "more options I consider viable"? Is an unbalanced ship simply never an option for you? Why? Isn't this just some kind on min-maxing by another name?

(Again, these are questions asked honestly).

No, I'm not a min-maxer. I even have an ASP Scout because it offered me something that others did not back then. 'more options I can consider viable' is a veiled min-maxing, I'm more in the side of 'equity' than 'equality' when it comes to balance. I fly the ships I like to fly, don't really care much to compare three of them to see if I can get an extra ton of cargo.
As an example, after 2k hours in game I just reached the rank of Baron, and as such, it gives me the privilege to access a new ship, and since then I can't stop thinking of buying a DBX.

 

[AbsinthSvK]

So my question is, why do you want ship balance in this game. What difference would it make to you?

balancing ships makes me want to use all ships not only best ones.
Miss-leading description for "military ship" Corvette, worse then some multipurpose ships makes me laugh. Also anaconda funny tonnage/jump range is hilarious.

 

[El_Hefe]

Why would anyone use any other ships than the unbalanced OP ones if they were left like that?

Every game needs balance,cant see how that is an issue

 

[lokvette]

Even though I think things should be blanced, but not the same, how or why makes no odds to me. Said in another thread I dont care nor play games to worry about stats.

one of the corps i was in when I played Eve had some real stat who'res and my god they were boring ppl.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

It's one of the factors that determine whether ED is a Science Fiction or a Fantasy universe.

If there is a logic to ships based on some basic principles, then it is Science Fiction.
If there are arbitrary numbers made up at the time, then it is Fantasy.

Depends on how you get your immersion kicks whether that matters.

 

[Jukelo]

Because there's a world between being obsessed with min-maxing and at least wanting to use the right tool for the job. And even being just the latter, there are ships which don't make much sense these days.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Why would anyone use any other ships than the unbalanced OP ones if they were left like that?

Every game needs balance,cant see how that is an issue

Competitive games need balance, but not all games are competitive.

 

[B1rdy]

For me balance is having sensible options.

Added a critical adjective.

If your choice doesn't matter, because every ship is more or less the same, what does it add to the game? More specific: If a ship is objectively worse than all other ships of its class or price range (i.e. Asp Scout), why bother adding it in the first place? Even for PvE players these are legitimate questions, even more so for PvP.

Competitive games need balance, but not all games are competitive.

True, but that doesn't negate the need for balance. Maybe you have played the single player RPG Gothic 3, in which you could get one of the best swords (or was it actually the best sword?) after only 2 hours playing. Any other sword you acquired afterwards was objectively worse. How can that be good?

 

[Riverside]

I'll take a crack at this:

Having 'more options' suggests more than one way to achieve a goal. One ship & loadout can reasonably be considered the best overall (the meta build), but any shortcomings of different combos should be capable of being compensated for by the skill or tenacity of the pilot within reason. Any issue is with the individuals definition of 'within reason'.

I don't personally worry too much with rock/paper/scissors balance, I am only concerned about a minimum standard for the task I want to achieve. So for example if I want to transport 100t of stuff, a sidewinder won't do that all in one trip but an AspX could, and a Conda would be overkill. As long as it's viable it's okay imo, and again the definition of viable may be different for others.

 

[Frenotx]

...and currently the third ship is the Chieftain, because it seems it will fit my cmdr's purpose at the moment.

Could you elaborate on this point, please? In what way does the ship fit your cmdr's purpose?
??

 

[iFred]

OK, there's other threads going on about specific balance issues. I didn't want to go off-topic on those threads, so please don't bring specific balances issues here. I'd like to discuss why (real or percieved) ship balance issues is such an important topic for so many people.

Here's my perspective. I'm a PVE Role Player, who general plays in Open. I pick my ships for their character, and not so much their characteristics. If anything in this game feels like "home" to me, its the Asp Explorer. The Corvette is a close second. I limit myself to 3 ships, and currently the third ship is the Chieftain, because it seems it will fit my cmdr's purpose at the moment. I doubt I would switch to anything else even if the first two ships were relatively the worst ships in the game. It matters not one jot to me that someone else may have got a ship superior in every way to anything I have. There is no globally finite supply of enjoyment. So, I don't really care that much about balance. Perhaps to the extent that it challenges willing suspension of disbelief in the fiction of the galaxy, but Elite is hardly a paragon in that regard anyway.

But that's just me (and maybe when it comes to Elite, I've take a road less traveled). So my question is, why do you want ship balance in this game. What difference would it make to you?

This is an honest question, wanting honest answers. There is no right or wrong. I just want to understand why it's such an issue.

The answer is easy. If you want balance: Chess is your game. Stay away from computer games.

It doesnt make sense to call for balance in a game like Elite.

 

[CMDR Pugwash]

To me balance means some reflection of reality. Specialised ships should be the best at their specialism. Multi-role ships should be average at all of them. Then you have options to harden up your trader but that must come at the expense of cargo space... etc.

The answer is easy. If you want balance: Chess is your game. Stay away from computer games.

It doesnt make sense to call for balance in a game like Elite.

What about computer chess?

 

[JohnRoberts]

If a ship is objectively worse than all other ships of its class or price range (i.e. Asp Scout), why bother adding it in the first place? Even for PvE players these are legitimate questions, even more so for PvP.

True enough if a single ship is unarguable inferior to everything else, even diehard role-players like me are going to avoid it. Does it follow that if one ship is objectively better than everything else (I'm not claiming that is the case), that everyone will use it?

 

[sollisb]

Here's a thought;

We have specific trades in Elite Dangerous and then we have missions based on those trades. We also have material collecting.

Let's take trade; Cutter is king my a long shot. But, some player might prefer to fly an Anaconda.

Exploration; Ananconda or ASPX, yet I explore in a Cutter

Combat; Corvette is king, yet I prefer Cutter again. (Id call Cutter a close 2nd, with Conda 3rd)

...
If you start messing with the balance of the ships, we'll end up with precise 'meta ships' and ruin the others. meaning also, that trying to add a new ship to the game is fraught with making it a usless ship, unless it compares favourably with some meta-ship.

I have I guess all told, about 8 or 9 Pythons, 5 Cutters, 1 vette and maybe 6 Anacondas. I fly them per role and mood. If I want to HazRez, I'll mostly jump in the Cutter at other times one of the Anacondas. Likewise Exploration, in the main I use my SporerCutter but at other time, my sporerPython.

If we anything it's more variation in utility ships. I've a mission based Chieftan now with 35ly jump range, full weapons, but D-Rated. I'm using it right now to fed rank on one of my accounts. It's perfectly suited. But I'd prefer a Vulture for Combat.

Personal choices, horses for courses.

Be careful what you wish for

 

[mistohise]

I don't know the answer to your balance question, but I strongly suspect that most of the people who call "nerf this" or "nerf that" aren't wanting nerfs to the ships that they fly...

 

[B1rdy]

True enough if a single ship is unarguable inferior to everything else, even diehard role-players like me are going to avoid it. Does it follow that if one ship is objectively better than everything else (I'm not claiming that is the case), that everyone will use it?

I think the majority will use it. Look at Battlefield 3, the M16A3 was in most situations the best weapon in the game. Guess what weapon was/ is being used most?