Ship Interiors - Why Can't We Have It?

[Apollo Cochrane]

Hey Commanders,

I have not played in about 6 years and recently returned to the game. So far I am loving it (I'm actually addicted again), but I have to say, at first glance not much has changed. I got Odyssey and that's cool n all, but (serious question) can anyone who knows, please explain to me why Frontier Devs can't give us ship interiors like we originally pledged for in the kickstarter (with zero-g combat on ships etc)?

I am honestly just asking this simply so I can understand, and then finally let it go in my heart, lol. Like... is it a technical issue, or a financing issue, or do the current devs just not understand its importance? I love this game, I have played Elite since the original in 1984, then Frontier: Elite II in the 90's, and backed the ED kickstarter as I say, so I am a long-term fan and I just want it to be the best game it can be, and Ship Interiors feels like the only thing it's missing. Also, I have been out of the loop for 6 years so I am wondering if they've already explained why we can't etc. and I just missed it?

So please do not beat me with the wet end of a Thargoid tentacle, I am just trying to understand, as the game has been out over 10 years at this point, and you would have thought the technology would have improved to the point now where ship interiors were now possible, and it's not like there's a lot of ships they'd have to modify anyway compared to some other games (who shall remain nameless lol).

Thank you,

Apollo.

 

[photomankc]

I would assume it is a game engine limitation that would need to be addressed. Physics with you inside something inside something else with both allowing movement is no small feat. Transitions from one 'grid' to the other are also hard to get right and be smooth. Not that it's impossible but that was not the code-base they started with. You sort of ARE the ship in this game. The ship has a doll of you bolted inside but you are a ridgid member of the model so no need to calculate forces on you how momentum should be imparted to you. So going back and retro-fitting this code to let you walk around in a ship in motion is a big task.

Then you have to go back and de-fudge all the interiors. Doors that are comically small, steps that are comically large. Stuff that was hit with the "Scale it 110% to make it look right" bat. That's a lot of work. Generation of all these modules, how they would internlock and be able to allow you to pass through. Gerneate the 3D assets for all that and deal with all the exterior fixes needed when some of that crap inevitably starts poking out of the sides.

Its a ton of work. I would have at least liked to be able to walk around my bridge and walk out the exit-ramp, elevator, or whatever the ship had as a better experiance than the transporter beam. It also would have been a lot easier to implement, but I understand why its a highly unlikely thing that we will ever get full interiors.

 

[DemiserofD]

Hey Commanders,

I have not played in about 6 years and recently returned to the game. So far I am loving it (I'm actually addicted again), but I have to say, at first glance not much has changed. I got Odyssey and that's cool n all, but (serious question) can anyone who knows, please explain to me why Frontier Devs can't give us ship interiors like we originally pledged for in the kickstarter (with zero-g combat on ships etc)?

I am honestly just asking this simply so I can understand, and then finally let it go in my heart, lol. Like... is it a technical issue, or a financing issue, or do the current devs just not understand its importance? I love this game, I have played Elite since the original in 1984, then Frontier: Elite II in the 90's, and backed the ED kickstarter as I say, so I am a long-term fan and I just want it to be the best game it can be, and Ship Interiors feels like the only thing it's missing. Also, I have been out of the loop for 6 years so I am wondering if they've already explained why we can't etc. and I just missed it?

So please do not beat me with the wet end of a Thargoid tentacle, I am just trying to understand, as the game has been out over 10 years at this point, and you would have thought the technology would have improved to the point now where ship interiors were now possible, and it's not like there's a lot of ships they'd have to modify anyway compared to some other games (who shall remain nameless lol).

Thank you,

Apollo.

To call it a technical issue would be an overstatement. No technical issue is insurmountable if there's enough money in it. The problem is, logically speaking, there just isn't all that much money in it. The perfect case study is Fleet carrier interiors. How often does the average person go to them? I know that there are a small handful of people who go there every time they plot a jump for their carrier, but I also know that a huge majority goes in and looks at it once and probably hasn't visited their Captain's cabin ever since.

In order to truly make ship Interiors work, you would need some fairly significant content to go along with it, and that content would need some fairly significant integration with the rest of the game, and that rapidly becomes a lot of effort.

And to be frank, the profitability of this game just isn't high enough to justify that sort of effort. Not only that, but this game has always been far too niche to draw the sort of audience that would be required. It has a learning cliff, most people who stick around long-term have quit at least once, myself included. In order for that investment to even potentially make sense, they have to make the game accessible enough to draw in and keep new players, and to be fair, they have made some serious progress on that of late, with features like sco. So who knows, maybe eventually we will get to the point where they can justify it. But I certainly wouldn't get my hopes up, at least not in the short term. Maybe at the end of their current two-year development cycle, we could see them considering something along those lines.

 

[DjVortex]

In before the thread is locked (because there's already a gigantic megathread about this very subject).

I think that ship interiors would require an amount of work not dissimilar to the EDO expansion (ok, perhaps not exactly as much, but it would be up there), for dubious benefit. It would also probably cause logistical and technical problems because the game would most probably still require some kind of transfer screen between the inside and the outside, even if it's disguised (similarly to how concourse lifts are a loading screen in disguise). Given how varied the ships are in size, shape and implied interiors, this would probably be an implementation nightmare.

To make the entire thing worth, it would probably also require more than just modeling the ship interiors and make them walkable. Ship decorations, furniture etc. (some of which could be earned in-game, some being ARX-only) would probably make it worth it, but would require quite some development work.

Multiplayer shenanigans (more than one player inside the same ship) could potentially also introduce logistical problems.

Personally, I'd rather they spent that effort on something much more interesting, such as landable thick-atmosphered HMC worlds and ice worlds (that are currently non-landable).

 

[thistle]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Not again. Can we just use the last epic thread rather than starting it all over again?

 

[thistle]

ship interiors - will they happen

I still hold onto hope that ship interiors will happen one day. Has there been any kind of confirmation? I know there was a lot of backlash when one of the community managers shut the idea down when he was trying to focus on the new odyssey gameplay and a lot of people took that as golden word...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Cosmo]

I am honestly just asking this simply so I can understand, and then finally let it go in my heart, lol. Like... is it a technical issue, or a financing issue, or do the current devs just not understand its importance? I love this game, I have played Elite since the original in 1984, then Frontier: Elite II in the 90's, and backed the ED kickstarter as I say, so I am a long-term fan and I just want it to be the best game it can be, and Ship Interiors feels like the only thing it's missing. Also, I have been out of the loop for 6 years so I am wondering if they've already explained why we can't etc. and I just missed it?

Fdev prioritized other features that they thought are more important. A lot has been added and changed since Odyssey launched.

Implementing seamless interiors like Star Citizen can be challenging (loading custom items in the rooms, players and items clipping through walls and floors, rubber banding). However, a much easier way is to have a separate map for the interior (see Starfield). This avoids technical issues of having lots of items and players together while the ship moves. It could feel like you're in the ship if you look out the windows and see space. I don't know how they'd do walking in the cockpit though. Maybe, when you stand up it loads the player in a separate instance.

So it's just a matter of Fdev has to put a team and resources to make this feature. Yes it's been 10 years and we're still waiting...

 

[DemiserofD]

In before the thread is locked (because there's already a gigantic megathread about this very subject).

I think that ship interiors would require an amount of work not dissimilar to the EDO expansion (ok, perhaps not exactly as much, but it would be up there), for dubious benefit. It would also probably cause logistical and technical problems because the game would most probably still require some kind of transfer screen between the inside and the outside, even if it's disguised (similarly to how concourse lifts are a loading screen in disguise). Given how varied the ships are in size, shape and implied interiors, this would probably be an implementation nightmare.

To make the entire thing worth, it would probably also require more than just modeling the ship interiors and make them walkable. Ship decorations, furniture etc. (some of which could be earned in-game, some being ARX-only) would probably make it worth it, but would require quite some development work.

Multiplayer shenanigans (more than one player inside the same ship) could potentially also introduce logistical problems.

Personally, I'd rather they spent that effort on something much more interesting, such as landable thick-atmosphered HMC worlds and ice worlds (that are currently non-landable).

I do think you could do it quite a bit more easily than that.

I'm imagining a fairly basic laboratory section, designed just off the cockpit and such that it has a window to look outside. This lab would let you do experiments on exobiological samples, which could then be used to engineer all the suit pieces for your suit, each of which could apply different effects.

After all, why have, you know, separate knee pads and shoulder pads and all, if they don't DO anything?

You could get up and go over to the lab whenever you want to check the results of your experiments, which would happen in real time, discovering new effects and such.

It would also have a small garden where you could grow samples of plants to do more experiments, or to do engineering, also growing in real time, and offering decorative options you could place around your ship in pots.

It'd probably be more limited than people would ideally like, but it'd be practical and would expand a niche that could much do with it.

 

[PiLhEaD]

....
Personally, I'd rather they spent that effort on something much more interesting, such as landable thick-atmosphered HMC worlds and ice worlds (that are currently non-landable).

Ditto, and I'm just not particularly interested in having ship interiors as the likely gameplay doesn't interest me.

However, I can think of fun gameplay loops should we ever get atmospheric planets and remote drone 'EVA' to search derelicts.

 

[Screemonster]

The perfect case study is Fleet carrier interiors. How often does the average person go to them? I know that there are a small handful of people who go there every time they plot a jump for their carrier, but I also know that a huge majority goes in and looks at it once and probably hasn't visited their Captain's cabin ever since.

Honestly this is probably the best reason. People think they'll like walking around the inside of their ship, but it's most likely going to turn into something they'll oooh and ahhh at maybe half a dozen times and then once they've seen it they'll get annoyed that they have to run all the way from the stairs to their cockpit every time. People already complain about the sprint from their ship to the elevators every time they visit the concourse, to the point of deliberately flying ships that disembark at the back so they don't have to run as far.

And don't get me started on the inevitable salt when someone embarks their ship while actively under fire and dies because of the extra precious few seconds it took to reach their seat.

 

[Cosmo]

To call it a technical issue would be an overstatement. No technical issue is insurmountable if there's enough money in it. The problem is, logically speaking, there just isn't all that much money in it.

There's a lot potential monetization to be made. Thousands of cosmetics items could be sold, dozens of cosmetic decoration packs, Interior access pass, NPCs onboard, fashion clothing.

The perfect case study is Fleet carrier interiors. How often does the average person go to them? I know that there are a small handful of people who go there every time they plot a jump for their carrier, but I also know that a huge majority goes in and looks at it once and probably hasn't visited their Captain's cabin ever since.

Only a small percentage of the player base has a Drake-Class Carrier. Whereas, every player has a small, medium or large ship. Secondly, the Drake Carrier is not really a ship, it is a mobile-base, because it teleports from point to point. Sadly, it cannot fly around in a star system. If it could move like a real capital ship that would be cooler to use and customize.

Fdev took years to add a sitting option to the Concourse bars... and we still cannot order drinks!

In order to truly make ship Interiors work, you would need some fairly significant content to go along with it, and that content would need some fairly significant integration with the rest of the game, and that rapidly becomes a lot of effort.

Ideally yes, at the minimum what Star Citizen offers. Those ships sell for $100-$1000+ a piece.

There are dozens of gameplay examples in other space games such as: Jump Ship, Starfield, Wildgate, FTL: Faster Than Light. Fdev doesn't need to reinvent interior gameplay.

 

[DemiserofD]

There's a lot potential monetization to be made. Thousands of cosmetics items could be sold, dozens of cosmetic decoration packs, Interior access pass, NPCs onboard, fashion clothing.



Only a small percentage of the player base has a Drake-Class Carrier. Whereas, every player has a small, medium or large ship. Secondly, the Drake Carrier is not really a ship, it is a mobile-base, because it teleports from point to point. Sadly, it cannot fly around in a star system. If it could move like a real capital ship that would be cooler to use and customize.

Fdev took years to add a sitting option to the Concourse bars... and we still cannot order drinks!



Ideally yes, at the minimum what Star Citizen offers. Those ships sell for $100-$1000+ a piece.

There are dozens of gameplay examples in other space games such as: Jump Ship, Starfield, Wildgate, FTL: Faster Than Light. Fdev doesn't need to reinvent interior gameplay.

The problem is, any new content also cannot interfere with the existing gameplay loops. If you try to do FTL, for example, you absolutely have to sacrifice a huge part of the existing combat and gameplay. Remember, games like Star Citizen are completely built around the concept.

That's why my idea leans into the on foot Engineering Process and exobiology, two things which are not particularly well developed and are fairly separate from any other gameplay loops. You could change them fairly substantially without any significant outcry, because Odyssey is basically just a generic shooter still in Alpha.

The only question is whether an interior that is fairly divorced from the core gameplay Loops would be sufficient to satisfy people. Personally, I think it maybe could, if they did it just right. There would still be some people complaining, somewhat akin to the people complaining that the panther Clipper isn't going to carry 5,000 tons of cargo or whatever, but enough people would be satisfied that they would shout down the ones who aren't.

 

[Nidoboros]

I think part of the issue is the hard science of it all. Zero-G while stationary, any maneuvers would fling people around. Space Engineers handles this okay, but it was designed for it, and also has the option of artificial gravity generator instead of just mag boots.

They could add gravity generators/inertial dampeners to lore as a new guardian thing, maybe? Then ship can be pulling crazy maneuvers without turning people into paste, but it would start to get into weird territory. Aside from flight assist off, I don't think you can just coast forever, and even then, you can only go as fast as your top speed/boost... you can never delta-V for more acceleration gravity.

In order to truly make ship Interiors work, you would need some fairly significant content to go along with it, and that content would need some fairly significant integration with the rest of the game, and that rapidly becomes a lot of effort.

Three things, off the top of my head - explorers have long wanted a way to repair the powerplant, since the AFMU won't do it. So I introduce puzzle mini game, it's like where you find wreckage on a planet and can pull circuit boards and memory chips and electrical fuses and whatnot... except, you replace broken things with working parts, either obtained from settlements or from the ship synthesizer.

This can come with a new suit with a diagnostic device (similar to Exobio, pulse to find broken area, target to find out what specific parts you need/initiate the repair minigame). It may also behave them to add an Arx Cutter to the suit, replacing the rifle slot. Pistols only. Possible second suit, possible modification, for EVA, to go into wrecks for salvage... or for emergency resuce opportunities.

Being able to go inside your ship means being able to go inside other ships (see above: Eva, but also, roadside assistance). Get a distress call about someone who needs ship repairs (could be pirate bait, could be legit), go inside and get things working again.

Okay so that was technically four, you got a bonus idea.

 

[PilotB]

We can't have them because the amount of work required. A shallow implementation is a waste of player and developer time. A deep implementation is a whole lot of work in a game that already has a lot of stuff that could use a lot more work.

 

[amigacooke]

Presumably Frontier knew what they were talking about when the feature was trailed at ED's inception, so we could have it, but Frontier seem to have lost the budget, appetite and ambition for their game.

Once upon a time, a long, long time ago we could have damage models, ship interiors and earth like worlds to land on. Now it appears we can't have any of them (or development for other platforms, or full VR, or AA ..... ).

 

[Ozric]

As others have mentioned there's already an active thread on this subject. We don't need another

ship interiors - will they happen

I still hold onto hope that ship interiors will happen one day. Has there been any kind of confirmation? I know there was a lot of backlash when one of the community managers shut the idea down when he was trying to focus on the new odyssey gameplay and a lot of people took that as golden word...

forums.frontier.co.uk