Ship Modules - Lets improve them; No more vertical progression

Blackcompany

Banned
B
Vertical progression is bad. Makes it so that gradual power creep is the only method for introducing new things which will actually interest players. It limits options. It does not promote varied playstyles. It is lazy; it is boring.

Ship modules are ALL ABOUT vertical progression.

Class C is better than E, and B is better than C and A is the (grossly, outrageously, intelligence insultingly overpriced) Best Option. This is boring because it is limiting. And it is also immersion wrecking.

Suggestion - Brand Names, NOT Classes:

Lakon FSD: You want Range. We got Range. Sure our FSD is heavier and more power hungry than others. But that's okay. Because we get you further. Lakon: When getting there Matters.

Zorgon Peterson FSD: Others will tell you Distance is the only thing that matters when it comes to FSD. Well, what does it matter how far you can go, if you cant survive the trip. Zorgon Peterson's FSD systems are lighter and less power hungry than the competition, allowing for better maneuverability in any flight mode. Zorgon Peterson: When you need to arrive alive.

Sirius FSD*: You want speed. You want distance. You, want the best of both worlds. And with Sirius Space (A subsidy of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation LLC) you can have it. Sirius Frame Shift Drives give you the perfect blend of recharge speed and distance to get where you want to go, when you need to get there. Sirius speed is a Sirius choice.*

You see the theme here. The game could have multiple corporations who manufacture this stuff. All of whom have a focus for their FSD, their guns, power plants, etc. These corporations could have home systems, home stations, areas where their products are more prevalent or less. We could even perform deliveries of components, elimination of competition and other missions for them that might offer temporary discounts on purchases and such.

Lets get rid of gamey mechanics like "Class A FSD." Think less Diablo and More Boderlands. If I want punch I might by a Jakobs rifle, sure. But if I want EXPLOSIONS! I am buying from Torgue.

Elite needs more of a sense of place and small changes like these would go a long, long way. And best of all...all you're doing is typing in some words and adjusting some numbers. Its like...four hours of work and a week of testing and done! You dont even needs new assets, yet this would, um, Siriusly enhance immersion.

*Sirius products can only be present in the game if Elite takes place in a time before the revolution came and Sirius Cybernetics ended up with their backs against the wall...
 
Last edited:

Muffet

Muffet
I disagree completely, is often common to see varied ratings on modules at top-notch ships. It's not always that the 'best' for your setup is to top rate everything. No offense but for how long you played? how many ships you outfitted and fiddled around? Traders often choose D grade in vast majority of their modules since its the optimun jumping distance and gets the job done in their job, a C shield to hold a little hit and the occasional mail slot bumps and ships ramming into you.

Its never "A rate and you are the best". Never.
 

Psycho Romeo

Psycho Romeo
Vertical progression isn't bad. There's just a right way and a wrong way to do it.

In my opinion, the best way to address the issue is to put stricter limits on power. One of the reason A is the best grade and the standard is because we have plenty of power to work with and we can A rate pretty much everything without too much issue.

Cut all powerplant power potential by a good 30% or so, and we'd see a lot more sub-optimal builds. Sub-optimal builds means that there's compromises and sacrifices made. This means diversity with builds. This is also incredibly inconvenient, and this means each choice will have more meaning.

Yes I've flown a VIII and yes I've flown a vulture and they need not be exceptions.

B grade is kind of stupid though and this needs to be addressed directly.
 
Last edited:

Blackcompany

Banned
B
I get that D Grade is an exception: I use it for exploration and trade myself.

And Psycho...you're "solution" is to just make everything worse? Why? How is this fun for players?

I want to introduce choice. Play style differentiation. Imagine two Vultures...one built for a little more range but heavier, and the other built with lighter modules for even more agility. How is this NOT better than "lets just limit everything even more?"
 

trollson

trollson
Quite like the brand name idea.

If the class-rating system is a "standards compliance" stamp - providing performance within a given window, then manufactures can still produce premium products, and since components are multivariant there is a large scope for competition.

Perhaps you can only buy such items from specialist outlets, and they won't let you through the door unless you have sufficient reputation (locally Friendly or Allied).


It's immersion buddy.
I'm not your buddy, pal.
​
I'm not your pal, guy. ​
[SUB]I'm not your guy, friend. [/SUB]​
[SUB]I'm not your friend, buddy....[/SUB]
​
 

Psycho Romeo

Psycho Romeo
Robert Maynard said:
From what I have gathered, Grade B modules have better inherent armour than other grades and are therefore more resilient - hence the increased weight.
Click to expand...
And from what I have experienced, the actual amount of inherent armor is rather negligible in more than most ship and weapon matchups. And in every case regarding a powerplant.
 

Incandescence

Incandescence
Every Module Rating has something special about it.
its not excactly vertical progression
For example:

E modules are well, crap basically xD

D modules are basically the lightest ones, and have the least module XP

B Modules are heavy armored versions of the module, hence why they weight twice of everything , and are slighly worse than A

A are basically all rounders, now depending on which module were talking about, A's are very power hungry.

Hence why i usually outfit my ships with nearly all A but Sensors and Life support

And lets not forget crafting is coming soon , so ...yeah :D
 

CTCParadox

CTCParadox
The fact that when building a combat ship (what I mostly fly), I can go through without even thinking: everything A except sensors and life support which are D shows that the system is fairly shallow. Some of the internal compartment/auxiliary hardpoints have a little more choice required, still not great though.

I would love to see the whole rank system discarded in favour of module from manufacturers. Like a Manticore Cannon (actually the C2 already is this but you get my point), or an Achenar Drive Works FSD or similar.

CMDR CTCParadox
 

Psycho Romeo

Psycho Romeo
Blackcompany said:
And Psycho...you're "solution" is to just make everything worse? Why? How is this fun for players?
Click to expand...
By the logic implied in the quoted, does better equal more fun? Let's just give ships infinite power, to maximize fun.

Absurd.

Within the current system, A grade has the most potent effect and the highest power cost. For 80% of modules, the power cost is completely negligible. A rate everything but the sensors and life support. There are very few scenarios where power is so limited that it actually begins to force us to make a choice of what to prioritize. Hm, didn't someone mention the idea of making a choice?

If you had a billion credits, how often would you be flying something lesser than an A rated python? You could fly an A rated python, an A rated anaconda, an A rated FDL, etc etc. Probably only take something cheaper when you wanted a change of pace, hm? In this case, the choice we make is pretty weak.
Now, instead of a billion credits, you have 200,000. We can either fly a very well fit asp, or a very poorly fit python. In this case, the choice we make is very, very, very significant.

The current exceedingly high power limits suffer from this same issue. Cutting the power down would be like having fewer credits. As a result of cutting down, the choice we make becomes extremely significant. I can A rate the vulture's thrusters, OR I can take large weapons - but not both. I can have a slow vulture with mediocre maneuverability, but large weapons that end things, or I can have a extremely nimble vulture with smaller weapons for fighting smaller craft. This is an incredibly ship defining choice.

But no, that's not fun for the players is it?

It's a concept that escapes the simpler among us, but inconvenience is what creates meaningful choices. When we are spoon fed (given a billion credits for example), choices matter far less. When we are inconvenienced, when we have to sacrifice, when we have to compromise, that is what a memorable, meaningful, engaging event. The player must invest in this decision - there is a personal stake involved. That's a good thing, for just about everything except maybe interfacing.
 
Last edited:

CTCParadox

CTCParadox
Psycho Romeo said:
By the logic implied in the quoted, does better equal more fun? Let's just give ships infinite power, to maximize fun.

Absurd.

Within the current system, A grade has the most potent effect and the highest power cost. For 80% of modules, the power cost is completely negligible. A rate everything but the sensors and life support. There are very few scenarios where power is so limited that it actually begins to force us to make a choice of what to prioritize. Hm, didn't someone mention the idea of making a choice?

If you had a billion credits, how often would you be flying something lesser than an A rated python? You could fly an A rated python, an A rated anaconda, an A rated FDL, etc etc. Probably only take something cheaper when you wanted a change of pace, hm? In this case, the choice we make is pretty weak.
Now, instead of a billion credits, you have 200,000. We can either fly a very well fit asp, or a very poorly fit python. In this case, the choice we make is very, very, very significant.

The current exceedingly high power limits suffer from this same issue. Cutting the power down would be like having fewer credits. As a result of cutting down, the choice we make becomes extremely significant. I can A rate the vulture's thrusters, OR I can take large weapons - but not both. I can have a slow vulture with mediocre maneuverability, but large weapons that end things, or I can have a extremely nimble vulture with smaller weapons for fighting smaller craft. This is an incredibly ship defining choice.

But no, that's not fun for the players is it?
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you for once.

Barring a few edge cases the power limitations can be pretty much ignored.
And even then it's mostly very specific things like trying to stack heaps of A-rank shield boosters.

CMDR CTCParadox
 

CMDR Byr Goefin

C
Totally agree with the OP. I like the branding idea, like Chevy, Ford or... Porche =)

I would further suggest that replacement A rated items be tied to rank progression, or a new class of A+ be added that would be military ranked and/or Pilot Guild rank.
You have enough classes that it could be that military ranked class 2,3,4 modules might not take much rank, but a class 7 or 8 would require a high rank indeed.

And some items might be tied to Pilot Guild rank, not military, for example Life support, Sensors and some of the Armor types.
 

Snarfbuckle

S
I would like to link minor factions to module productions and have different tiers.

So getting a reputation with Ant Hill Mob gains you a E class Frameshift Interdictor and higher rating gives you increased grades of that module.

Each faction would have their own specialities so Ant Hill Mob might have a low-powered Interdictor but that has increased weight or SIZE.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom