Shock Cannon - Increase Ammo Reserves

[CMDR Vic H Weaving]

Good evening,

Having just equipped (3) shock cannons for a conflict zone, I've found that they're interesting, but the tiny ammo reserve of 300 rounds makes them worthless for anything besides assassination missions. Could this ammo cap be increased to by 3-5x? The same was done for the railgun years ago and was a very welcome change.

Thank you,
CMDR Weaving

 

[anShpan]

I would rather suggest to introduce an engineering for Shock Cannons, including Ext. ammo capacity. Also current materials price of ammo synthesis is insane for this otherwise a very interesting weapons.

 

[Insane4un]

Shock cannons needs a buff, but not to the amount you guys proposing. Increasing it's ammo cap by 3-5x would turn them into best multi cannon in the game.

The weapon itself was designed as an alternative for those players who can't stand engineering. It is designed as a low to mid tier weapon, not for use in any combat zone or hazres. It is primarily designed for early to mid game until you unlocked all engineers and is Ok-ish for bounty missions and other missions and pirates that you can encounter on your way to mission. The correct amount to buff would be +100 or +150 rounds.

No engineering is needed as it would make it extremely broken.

FDev can still introduce unique version of this gun for CG one day.. I've been waiting for it 6 years out of 10 tho. So good luck waiting 6 more lmao

 

[V'larr]

Shock cannons needs a buff, but not to the amount you guys proposing. Increasing it's ammo cap by 3-5x would turn them into best multi cannon in the game.

The weapon itself was designed as an alternative for those players who can't stand engineering. It is designed as a low to mid tier weapon, not for use in any combat zone or hazres. It is primarily designed for early to mid game until you unlocked all engineers and is Ok-ish for bounty missions and other missions and pirates that you can encounter on your way to mission. The correct amount to buff would be +100 or +150 rounds.

No engineering is needed as it would make it extremely broken.

FDev can still introduce unique version of this gun for CG one day.. I've been waiting for it 6 years out of 10 tho. So good luck waiting 6 more lmao

And what source do you have for this claim of insight to developer intent?

The real answer is it was simply poorly balanced on release and then neglected, as is much of the case regarding outfitting & ship combat aspects in particular.

 

[Insane4un]

And what source do you have for this claim of insight to developer intent?

The real answer is it was simply poorly balanced on release and then neglected, as is much of the case regarding outfitting & ship combat aspects in particular.

I've tested this gun in beta, it had 100 less rounds than it has now, so initial design and intention of this gun was and still is very clear to me. Especially after FDev said that it's suppose to be alternative for people who doesn't want to grind engineers. I've made a thread back then about it's poor performance and lucky enough they noticed it. There was a buff. What you see today - is the gun after it was buffed.

 

[g0oglyeyes]

The "alternative to engineering" niche is no longer viable after engineering itself became far more accessible, which essentially means that shock cannons just go unused. I would characterize these weapons as interesting but worthless. Tiny ammo pool made worse by awful hit rates, absolutely atrocious thermal load that fries even medium-sized dedicated combat ships, and a completely baffling semi-automatic firing mechanism for something that should obviously be automatic, as befitting of the high RoF and low damage/shot nature of the weapon. Buffing the ammo belt would a be a start, but I still wouldn't touch them until engineering is opened up or damage/shot is doubled.

 

[sinkarma]

I'd say shock cannons could do with some alternate engineering.
Also curious if the OP was using gimballed or fix mount?
I've used fixed mount ones and find I can kill a lot more thanks to the better damage per shot.
Maybe high cap mod reduces max clip size but gives 50% more magazine.
And
Double shot (like on frag cannons)(burn through your ammo even faster! XD)
And
The usual lightweight and reinforced mount mods.

Plus the some of the usual engineering secondaries.
Less weight, less power draw, the damage increase one, nothing too exciting cause the gun comes out the box already with autoloader.

But all in all all I want is their bssic synthesis to be fixed.
I love shock cannons, they are very nifty and interesting! With good projectile speed and the ability to fire as fast as you pull mean they are great at medium range and practising using fixed weapons. As you won't need to wait for multicannon spin up and you won't need to wait for cannon rate of fire.

It wierdly makes me think of revolvers XD

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I find them fun to use, while it lasts. They're an interesting alternative to other projectile weapons and take down NPCs quite nicely.

Then the fun's over and it's time to fly off to rearm. No way am I using g3 materials for a base ammo synthesis anyway.

 

[sinkarma]

I find them fun to use, while it lasts. They're an interesting alternative to other projectile weapons and take down NPCs quite nicely.

Then the fun's over and it's time to fly off to rearm. No way am I using g3 materials for a base ammo synthesis anyway.

The mats needed for the basic is ridiculous! And it only fills half your ammo! The standard gives a damage buff and is just the basic mats but more.
It feels like a real after thought. Which is wierd. Cause the guardian weapons came out at the same time, and had different synthesist costs.

I personally like to take regular breaks and the use of SCO makes the return to dock trip less painful. But it could still use a lil something to make it more.

 

[sinkarma]

Also don't forget.
Doubling ammo can be less useful than increasing damage in some setups for weapons!
Do you want 200 ammo when each enemy takes 50 shots?
Or do you want 100 ammo when each enemy takes only 10 shots?
(An extreme example I know but the weapon could be altered with some max grade 3 engineering to make it more comfortable in various ways)

 

[sinkarma]

Increasing per shot damage might make them overpowered...
Shock cannons hold an advantage even over engineered multi cannons for responsiveness and damage per shot.

And hold an advantage over cannons and plasmas for responsiveness and projectile speed.

But in a 1v1 pvp fight how likely are people to dump ALL THEIR AMMO from a multicannon or cannon or plasma into one target and not kill?!
But if you encounter an NPC with their magic infinite shield cells then you're out of luck, you'll spend all of your shock cannon ammo and have zero result.

An alternate idea might be make shock cannons 75% kinetic and 25% thermal. (I'd say cut their max damage by 5% and then make them absolute damage but some people might get "bait for a debate")
The description says they are plasma bolts! And the name suggests lighting!

 

[sinkarma]

I should add that is an npc anaconda with infinite shield cells.

Against smaller npc targets 3x large shock cannons pump out enough dps to slam through their shield cells and break them

Don't forget kinetic damage is still very good against shields!

 

[sinkarma]

And people who spew that "alternate to engineering" dribble triggers me.
Why did we get engineered guardian weapons then?
Guardian plasma cannons stock are a nice alternative to regular plasmas, they have a decent absolute damage number, then suddenly we got an engineered version which is just RIDICULOUSLY powerful and fun... with no issue about running out of ammo.
Guardian tech was supposed to be "comes out the box as good as a grade 3 or 4 engineered module" and an alternate to mat grind.
One could add a pre engineered shock cannon with say...
50% increased power draw.
200% increase heat generation.
Damage type turned into explosive.

Would make it useless against shields but would tear apart hull armor like crazy! A very ALTERNATE direction for a shock cannon.

 

[CMDR X]

THIS!

 

[Insane4un]

And people who spew that "alternate to engineering" dribble triggers me.
Why did we get engineered guardian weapons then?
Guardian plasma cannons stock are a nice alternative to regular plasmas, they have a decent absolute damage number, then suddenly we got an engineered version which is just RIDICULOUSLY powerful and fun... with no issue about running out of ammo.
Guardian tech was supposed to be "comes out the box as good as a grade 3 or 4 engineered module" and an alternate to mat grind.
One could add a pre engineered shock cannon with say...
50% increased power draw.
200% increase heat generation.
Damage type turned into explosive.

Would make it useless against shields but would tear apart hull armor like crazy! A very ALTERNATE direction for a shock cannon.

That's a whole different case. GPP and GPD still don't have any "engineered" version as a proof of that. The guns however were introduced only because of large part of active player base being invested into goid combat and wanted something new. It was also designed as major plot development in a Thargoid war.

If you really want to put Shock Cannon into perspective - you need to understand that less than 5% of entire player base are even aware of it's existence, less than 0,5% of the 5% players have it unlocked (they learned it's a trash thanks to YouTube) and less than 0,01% using them right now. In a perfect world FDev would notice this anomaly on their player stat telemetry and would certainly try to do something about it to make it more appealing to player base...

BUT THIS IS NOT THE PERFECT WORLD

 

[sinkarma]

"clickbait" videos and guides of elite dangerous has been seriously bad for elite's playerbase health and develoupment.
So much information is just flat out wrong or deliberately missleading in order to generate drama and arguments...

Beside guardian weapons I think Shock Cannons and enzyme missiles and fletchettes are the only newest weapon we've got since the introduction of Large missiles/torpedoes and huge pulse/burst/beam/multicannons. But I could be remembering wrong.

Then again...

People used to berrate me years ago when I mentioned that shard cannons and plasma chargers were actually useful for shooting human ships, especially the engineered ones.
"it only does AX damage"

But I've see mentions about the forums of people realising the engineered shard and chargers being good and finally understanding that shards deal thermal on human ships and chargers deal absolute on human ships...

Maybe in a year or so people will slowly begin to realize more and more shock cannons are nice. And we'll see maybe more people demanding some sort of engineering for shock cannons.
like now.

 

[V'larr]

I've tested this gun in beta, it had 100 less rounds than it has now, so initial design and intention of this gun was and still is very clear to me. Especially after FDev said that it's suppose to be alternative for people who doesn't want to grind engineers. I've made a thread back then about it's poor performance and lucky enough they noticed it. There was a buff. What you see today - is the gun after it was buffed.

Fair enough.

It still goes to show how out of touch Fdev is with their own game to implement it in that fashion or think that a mere 100 round ammo increase would suffice - or that it had even worse ammo duration in the first place. Like, ammo duration has been the biggest problem of kinetic & missile weapons since the beginning of hitpoint inflation, and it's only gotten worse and worse with every addition to that hitpoint inflation. Anybody spending more than an hour playing the actual game of combat would understand this about Elite.

And conceiving of sidestepping Engineering is altogether awful, for balance and for normal player expectations of getting to take & improve modules in the game in accordance with Engineering and all the barriers to entry that have to be cleared to do it.

There is so much balance-wise with outfitting in this game that contributes to a need for a ground-up overhaul, this to me is just one more thing forming a part of the pile.

 

[Lord Baron Von Vaderham]

Fair enough.

It still goes to show how out of touch Fdev is with their own game to implement it in that fashion or think that a mere 100 round ammo increase would suffice - or that it had even worse ammo duration in the first place. Like, ammo duration has been the biggest problem of kinetic & missile weapons since the beginning of hitpoint inflation, and it's only gotten worse and worse with every addition to that hitpoint inflation. Anybody spending more than an hour playing the actual game of combat would understand this about Elite.

And conceiving of sidestepping Engineering is altogether awful, for balance and for normal player expectations of getting to take & improve modules in the game in accordance with Engineering and all the barriers to entry that have to be cleared to do it.

There is so much balance-wise with outfitting in this game that contributes to a need for a ground-up overhaul, this to me is just one more thing forming a part of the pile.

I have to second this. I'm still not through my first year of playing this game, but I am rather surprised at how FDev approaches a lot of this game. Engineering is a pain to unlock but everything looks to be balanced around the assumption that you've unlocked it. There are enough players that hate the engineering grind that FDev thinks to add a "bypass" that fails to actually bypass anything but didn't (at least at the time) consider that it was a sign they should have changed engineering. There are a lot of band-aid solutions to very deep problems.

As for the shock cannons, I love 'em. Too bad about the ammo economy.

 

[taiiat]

i came here to agree with this general premise.
i finally got to unlocking and trying Shock Cannons, as on paper they looked like one of the rare Weapons that i'd actually like in the game (most i only tolerate the existence of, they aren't actually very interesting to use). and in practice, they do feel fun to use (again, unlike most of the Weapons).

however the primary thing i noticed was Ammo Pool compared to most other Weapons in the game.
considering that while the DPS is theoretically high, but between high Spread when fired quickly(and terrible DPS when fired slowly) and modest Projectile Velocity - not to mention they do not have their own access to Corrosive Ammo - it's not like these things are borderline overpowered or anything.

however, i would prefer Engineering being available for them, than to just like, double their Ammo Pool (which is what i would do otherwise), given the choice.
i can also appreciate that many of the 'standard' Engineering types for other Ballistic type Weapons would make them a bit nuts. soo.... don't use the same Engineering blueprints as other Ballistic Weapons. have mostly unique ones.



here's a few blueprint suggestions off the top of my Head. these will be assuming Grade 5.

• 'Compact Munitions'
  • +200% Ammo Pool
  • -20% Reload Time
  • -40% Magazine Size
  • +50% Mass
• 'Tungsten Fracturers'
  • +75% Projectile Velocity
  • +60% Breach Damage
  • +20 min and max Breach Chance
  • +50% Armor Piercing
  • -30% Damage
  • +25% Thermal Load
  • +50% Power Draw
  • reduced Spread
• 'Shell Printer'
  • +50% Magazine Size
  • -100% / disables Ammo Pool
  • -50% Mass
  • +150% Reload Time
  • +40% Thermal Load
  • +125% Power Draw
  • +20% Distributor Draw
  • -25% Fire Rate

and i have to say i prefer the Engineering Blueprints for Weapons that do more outlandish, more unique things. and i'd hope that more of those can be statistically great in the future (as most of them don't tend to be). both in between the Engineering options that are available for a single item, as well as in comparison to what is available to other items in the game. it's more interesting when you have many choices that serve towards carving out or reinforcing what makes the Weapons (or Modules, for that matter) different from one another.

 

[sinkarma]

here's a few blueprint suggestions off the top of my Head. these will be assuming Grade 5.

• 'Compact Munitions'
  • +200% Ammo Pool
  • -20% Reload Time
  • -40% Magazine Size
  • +50% Mass
• 'Tungsten Fracturers'
  • +75% Projectile Velocity
  • +60% Breach Damage
  • +20 min and max Breach Chance
  • +50% Armor Piercing
  • -30% Damage
  • +25% Thermal Load
  • +50% Power Draw
  • reduced Spread
• 'Shell Printer'
  • +50% Magazine Size
  • -100% / disables Ammo Pool
  • -50% Mass
  • +150% Reload Time
  • +40% Thermal Load
  • +125% Power Draw
  • +20% Distributor Draw
  • -25% Fire Rate

The only thing I don't think is good here is...
...
The fact you called that last one "shell printer"
Shock cannons are described as shooting "energy projectiles"
Not bullets.
Glowing thunder bolts. "Shocking" cannon.
And the shots remind me kind of like lil plasma bolts similar to what an srv might use but HEAVILY scaled up.
So that should be something like "auto synthesizer"

And for fire rate...
The gun fires as fast as you pull.
Unless the "fire rate" is linked to how inaccurate it gets with repeated shots? I don't know.
And last I checked engineering has yet to make an exo skeleton for my trigger finger. (/jkjk sorry XD)