Shooting down game improvement ideas. :)

It's funny to read the reasoning behind people's arguments against FD adding some basic game feature that most other games have had for years. lol.

Additional character slots? NO, the database couldn't handle it, kids would anonymously grief players, etc.

We need better tutorials. NO, we dont need handholding, dumbing down the game, instant game enjoyment from hour one (most especially that. :)

Other games have chat, guilds, fleet warfare. NO, this is ED, not Eve, as if a helpful improvement to ED will necessarily turn it into an Eve clone.



Feel free to share your favorite reason heard condemning a feature that have helped make other successful games into a rich experience.

Standing by for 2.1.
 
A lot of this stands from the original Elite.

No 3 lives system - First game ever.
Significantly longer than 5-10 minutes - First game ever.

The list goes on about another 10 items which revolutionised gaming as we know it hence the opposition to do some things other games do. Some of it also goes against their core expectation of the game since so many genre's are mashed up in Elite (Sim/Arcade/Nostalgia/MMO/RPG etc). Some peoples great ideas (guilds etc) are another players definition of hell.
You are quite correct people do use silly reasons but the reason for these silly reasons (to go totally meta :p) is usually the above.
 
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Imagine that. None of those features would add anything to my gameplay.
All of those "missing" features have a working workaround... and you did pick exactly those, where "player laziness" is the only reason to implement them. :p
Cheesus, NPC multicrew/wingmen would add more and is nowhere on the developer list and you want developer time wasted on tutorials? That you use for half an hour? When there's 3 bazillion youtube how-tos on any aspect of the game only 3 clicks away?
 
-Chat , well only if I can block it because I dont need :
XxXUberImmersionKiller69XxX : Yo , this video game is dope but how do you press the Iwin button
360Noscope : U hav 2 finish da grind 1st
777killer777Ihatethelore : Dis game sux

In my feed like in other MMOs.

Elite should be about immersion.

-I do want war in the game but it has to work well and is on the list of todo.
-tutorials , maybe but only if it does not slow the devs down
-guilds we have player factions they need more work and to become more player driven but I do not ever want to see in game guilds with player made names like ''ImmersionKiller-squad''

However to be honest the worst place to post ideas for the devs is the discusion forum , you might want to try the idea/suggestion section but most ideas have allready been posted and its just a matter of time before the devs either do it , or dont.
 
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This thread is helping... it has to be. [praise]

At any rate, I just saw the YouTube video of the live stream about missions updates in 2.1. Based on what I had heard more about it previously here on the forums, I'm pleasantly surprised by the video.

Anyway, back on topic... Some people have good suggestions, some people don't, and everyone thinks they're right, except those who know better. ;)

Cheers.
 
You are completely mistaken. I'd played many games on my BBC Micro before Elite that had no 3 lives and playtime longer than 5-20. Just about every one of the excellent text adventures from Acornsoft, for example.



Let's hear them. Perhaps one or two of them are actually true.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/games/11051122/Elite-the-game-that-changed-the-world.html

That's the second link on google (the first is the wiki). It was a game changer whether you think so or not.
 
Although it’s true that discussions about suggestions for game “improvements” can become heated or quickly break down, I don’t think it’s because reasons opposing those suggestions are silly.

Firstly, many of the people acting as opponents in those threads are not against the suggestions so much as they dislike the tone implicit in the OP. Many “improvements” come in the form of “Elite Dangerous sux0rz/is dead/bores me now,” as if “one change” will somehow magically “fix” the game. Many of these threads begin from an assumption that Elite Dangerous is broken, fundamentally flawed, unplayable except by the few hardcore fans who can’t see how terrible it is, etc. (Or, as Mohrgan put it above, suggestions FD must implement if they want to get “big”.) I think what many of us oppose when we post in those threads is the sense of entitlement we feel coming from such posters. Attitude is an important thing; tone is hard to achieve in writing. But if one genuinely wants change, coming into a forum of clearly biased people and insulting the thing they like is not a very good opening move.

On a related note, there are many people who genuinely like the game, think it is a good game, and have suggestions they think are good … and others disagree. I see a lot of myopia, where people find a play style that works wonderfully for them, discover some edge cases where the game breaks their immersion, becomes a grind, becomes too boring, etc., and come up with a way to “fix” the problem—but they are coming from a position fundamentally different from the majority of the player base. It shouldn’t be surprising, then, when they receive less-than-enthusiastic feedback about their idea.

This is, as Privata noted above, a discussion forum, and it isn’t a great place for making suggestions to the devs themselves. This is a place for fans—enthusiasts—to talk about the game. This includes talking about potential “improvements.” The level of discussion and debate should hopefully remain civil and respectful—and a shout out to the mods who spend their time helping to make that happen! However, no one should be surprised when they encounter pushback or critique of their ideas.

So, no, I don’t think any of the reasons you cited in your original post are dumb reasons to oppose a suggestion. Now, arguments against a suggestion can fall prey to all the follies and fallacies I noted above, and it’s certainly possible to make arguments from a weak position that use those same reasons. But that’s not the reasons’ themselves being wrong—that’s the people posting who, once again, have a sense of entitlement and feel like they are the ultimate arbiters of what makes Elite good or not, just coming from the other direction.

In particular, I think discussion about the extent to which Elite should have features similar to other games is a vital one. We are at a point where gaming tech and networking tech have become good enough to make space sims viable to the extent that Frontier and many other developers have long dreamed. While a certain amount of overlap and similarity is useful, even desirable, diversity is also nice—not just to appeal to different types of players, but also because the same player might enjoy different space sims for different reasons. Features that transform one game into a “rich experience” might detract from another game.

I think where we run into problems most often is when we start bandying about terms like “the core values” of Elite: Dangerous. Because that’s not really our bailiwick; only the developers have that vision, and it’s also a vision that will evolve. Thus, making such ontological arguments is ultimately a specious exercise; we are forced to fall back on the so-called “silly” reasons.

I, for one, welcome silly reasons—I just want to see the level of discourse, including the tone of players and their ability to empathize with those who might play the game differently, remain or increase as Elite continues to expand and grow, both in features and players.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/games/11051122/Elite-the-game-that-changed-the-world.html

That's the second link on google (the first is the wiki). It was a game changer whether you think so or not.

It was a game changer in some ways but hardly the only one.

1979
Flight_Simulator_1.0_short_animation.thumb.gif


1983
Sublogic_Flight_Simulator_II.png
 
I'd argue that text adventures do not equal games, at least not on the same level as Elite. It's like saying X was the first book not to have a plot and someone mentions the dictionary.
I'd also argue that Aviator is a simulator not a game even though it can be played as a game, yeah it launched about the same time and did have somewhat 3D graphics, it's not quite there tbh. Point although the BBC are rarely wrong: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30576913
Write them a letter...

Since you seem very determined to kick out at the original Elite and I expect you to deny everything I will write I'm not going to go around searching to find a 10 item list because I was giving an example to make my point that the original game changed the way the industry looked at games. Hence the "about" in my title it wasn't all meant to be taken as gospel. I may have come across a bit strong and the word "First" should maybe have been substituted with "one of the first" but as above posters have said it revolutionised gaming whether you see it or not.
Other "one of the first" that pop off the top of my head are the generation of the game-world, persistent save game, no end game, no "score", the whole dark wheel novel and the huge game launch. Things almost unheard of for the gaming industry at the time.

We are now very much off the original topic :S
Oh and Welcome to the forums. :)
 
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"my immersion! D:" - this about covers 80% of pretty much anything.

I think if a larger number of people played the original elite, they might get a rude shock. It was hard. It only got harder as time went on, really. The expectation now is for a game that delivers everything at once, does not include any form of risk at all, and is able to be completed within a few hours. Why? The vast majority of current game titles and franchises, continue to emphasis this short-form gameplay; endless new versions that rehash the same genre, as the 'norm'.

Speed runners can nail the 'end-game' event, in any number of current big-budget triple-A titles, measured in minutes; seldom do any titles crack more than an hour for these select few speed demons. It's insane.

ED is an ongoing experiment into a living universe (arguably there is a bit more 'life' to inject, yet); a lot of people can't cope with that notion of needing to be connected and that there are modes where interaction with others is not only plausible, but to be expected. At least there are three modes available, and some choice is better than none. That Frontier also built a server based BGS, means offline isn't compatible with that core design choice. There is a lot of ongoing salt over this topic, alone.

They (FD) are trying something fairly new, with respect to ongoing upgrades, rather than new-version releases that 'reset' the world, or create a new scenario each time. There's only a few titles that do this. And they all struggle with how to evolve the game over time, because the world isn't just reset every year with the new version.

Elite isn't special with respect to feedback though; every game community has highly vocal members. But perhaps what makes things a little different is some of the hours people (myself included) have pumped into the game. It's measured in many hundreds, to some many thousands of hours. That's some serious numbers.

There are precious few other titles that anyone might have, with similar levels of commitment. This inevitably means we all become a little emotionally involved. And that means every debate ends up having some degree of emotion present. I don't for a moment believe frontier aren't aware of that. It's a hard road they have chosen and even though there are things I desperately wish were improved; I have to stop and thank them for the bits that are great. Because this game is at times able to pull the most amazing moments out of the hat.

And I can barely even count on one hand, how many other titles have achieved this. It is precious few.
 
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dayrth

Volunteer Moderator
Let's hear them. Perhaps one or two of them are actually true.

Off the top of my head...

Elite 1984:
3d graphics
3d radar
procedural generation
No set path, story or ending
The Dark Wheel novella included with the game to provide background

Frontier: First Encounters 1995
Newtonian physics
realistic star systems
seamless freeform planetary landings
 
Well, you've got to admit OP, some of the suggestions are pretty bad as well.

How many times does the global chat one come up? Regardless of how feasable it is, all you have to do is look at the global chat in any online game to see what a terrible idea it is.
 
It's about the type of game FD want to make, given community/customer interest to some extent. And while they're certainly not done with it yet and haven't implemented everything they want to, there are likely to be many suggested features and aspects that some in the community want that are perhaps in other games as well that simply won't be added. Again, not everyone thinks everything is a good idea that is a possibility, nor should they. That would only lead to a very goofy game indeed that would ultimately fall short and fail, as it would likewise deserve to...

...but at least in the meantime you could buy DLC for it for a few thousand money units.

I kid. I kid... kind of, mostly because I don't want to see another thread about it. [knocked out]
 
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"This other different game has it" is pretty comical reasoning for adding a feature.

Well, they did implement CQC / Arena, which is at the moment *the* en vogue type of game with multiple franchises sitting in the pvp team vs. team arena esport gameplay.
As far as we can tell, that did not provide the huge boost one might expect on paper. (and even I would have expected it to be a pretty popular feature - it is a pretty solid and eye candy laden Arena game)

You can find many reasons why it didn't, but it might boil down to copying parts of mechanics and gampley of a different game into yours is just not a guaranteed working recipe, it might prove a waste of time and ressources that you could have spent on coming up with and implementing ideas of your own (which is always a hit or miss thing but I think FD have a pretty innovative and creative team who can come up with some gameplay gold, if they don't just try to run along well trodden paths).
 
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Well, you've got to admit OP, some of the suggestions are pretty bad as well.

How many times does the global chat one come up? Regardless of how feasable it is, all you have to do is look at the global chat in any online game to see what a terrible idea it is.

Agreed, but it might be nice if the chat currently in the game worked reliably. I have friends on my list that I have sent direct messages to and they never receive them, and we both know this is the case because we're talking via Inara or Discord while ED eats the message.
 
Agreed, but it might be nice if the chat currently in the game worked reliably. I have friends on my list that I have sent direct messages to and they never receive them, and we both know this is the case because we're talking via Inara or Discord while ED eats the message.

That's two different topics and that's also part of the general feedback or improvement idea issues here.
That the already implemented features actually work is kinda mandatory and developer time should or even has to be spent on analyzing/fixing such issues. No need to discuss that in principle.

That new features on top of that, like a global "chatroom", where the existing one is not working too well is where the dissent about priorities sets in.
There's literally dozens of flashed out, mostly reliable, usually free of charge 3rd party tools for communication, which allow exactly that kind of functionality. So if exactly that functionality is core to your gaming experience, feel free to use them.
 
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